BB awarded NFL Executive of the Year

[Wozzy]

Lol, I never claimed that. Your mind is gone dude. Keep up.

Why are you inserting yourself in someone else’s conversation and posting weird a trump references?

And did you or did you not suggest someone else made BB’s draft picks in 2021?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

One year ago:

Duggar, Onwenu, Myles Bryant, Herron, JJ Taylor, Asiasi, Uche were acquired as rookies last year before, as you've suggested, Kraft took the draft away from Bill. Dalton Keene, Anfernee Jennings, Zuber, Wilkerson are also very talented and have promise on what amounts to developmental/red shirt years.

Two years ago:

Damien Williams, Jakob Johnson, Jakobi Meyers, Gunner Olszewski, Jake Bailey, JoeJuan Williams, Chase Winovich and Yodney Cajuste were acquired as rookies two years ago before Kraft took the draft away from Bill.

When was Bill bad again?

I think you meant Harris not Williams. Who is only drafted player (not counting special teams) that is contributing to the 22.

The draft before that, only Duggar and maybe onwenu are contributors.

Your only proving my point, especially if you keep going back,

garbage drafts before wolf.

Contributors drafted after wolf got here.

 

[Wozzy]

I think you meant Harris not Williams. Who is only drafted player (not counting special teams) that is contributing to the 22.

The draft before that, only Duggar and maybe onwenu are contributors.

Your only proving my point, especially if you keep going back,

garbage drafts before wolf.

Contributors drafted after wolf got here.

Duggar, Bentley, Onwenu, Bailey, Asiasi, Williams, Winovich and Cajuste we’re all drafted. 2/3rds of this years playoff team were acquired as rookies by the Pats.

And yeah… the guy who drafted Brady, Seymour, Mankins, Thuney, DMC, Wilfork, Collins, Hightower, Duggar, Mac, Barmore is terrible at drafting.

Sounds legit…

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Duggar, Bentley, Onwenu, Bailey, Asiasi, Williams, Winovich and Cajuste we’re all drafted. 2/3rds of this years playoff team were acquired as rookies by the Pats.

And yeah… the guy who drafted Brady, Seymour, Mankins, Thuney, DMC, Wilfork, Collins, Hightower, Duggar, Mac, Barmore is terrible at drafting.

Sounds legit…

Again you are missing the point of how you began this discussion.

2015 to 2020 drafts were almost total garbage!

We hire wolf.

2021 draft was spectacular.

Let’s try and stay on point.

 

[Wozzy]

Again you are missing the point of how you began this discussion.

2015 to 2020 drafts were almost total garbage!

We hire wolf.

2021 draft was spectacular.

Let’s try and stay on point.

Up until 2018 they mostly didn't make picks, they traded them away for vet players or traded out. That's how they ended up with no picks in 2017. Once they signed Jonathan Jones to an extension they traded Keion Crossen away simply because they didn't have room for him, he was a great slot corner prospect, a young Jon Jones. They traded a good backup QB in Brissett, also had to make a decision between Elandon Roberts and Kamu Grugier-Hill, they had to let Braxton Berrios go and hope they could sneak him on the practice squad, he never made it there, everyone knew how talented he was, Jon Halapio and Hjalte Froholdt were G/C prospect that'd have rather held onto... bad NFL teams would have had room on their roster for all these guys, could have started them even when they weren't ready... where were the Pats supposed to hide these guys.... on the best team in the league... on their practice squad? They'd all be gone tomorrow, they were.

I guess we can pretend that the 2017 draft "sucked," but can it really suck if you have no picks and frankly next to no rookie, even a 1st rounder is cracking the roster on a team trying to repeat as Super Bowl champion and trying to win their 3rd Super Bowl in four years?

Just for reference they won it again next year in 2018 as well, two of their picks (3rd round) Derek Rivers couldn't stay healthy (knees) and their next pick (3rd round) Antonio Garcia had life threatening blood clots after he was drafted, nearly ending his career but derailing it for years. BB should have known that would happen. Their third pick (4th round) Deatrich Wise is a decent role player and fourth pick (6th round) Conor McDermott is still a backup guard in the league who made a few starts this season.

It's "bad" is that you have no picks, but are playing in 4 Super Bowls over 5 years... tell me how that works?

The Rams have no cap space in 2022, no LT, no RT, no #2 CB, no Von Miller, no OBJ, no Sony Michel, no kicker, no draft picks in 2022 and don't make another first until 2025 I think... lol. One ring.

BB doesn't deserve a meaningless award, even though his coaches get patched every year, the league docks him a first every decade, opponents steal or overpay for every free agent and he picks at the back of the draft every year.

N'Keal Harry sucks... boo hoo. Sorry you had to wait a full season to end up back in the playoffs with your rookie QB playing and a blue chip DT and RB to boot. Blame the guy in charge... he sucks.

Welcome to weird world.

 

[venecol]

Up until 2018 they mostly didn't make picks, they traded them away for vet players or traded out. That's how they ended up with no picks in 2017. Once they signed Jonathan Jones to an extension they traded Keion Crossen away simply because they didn't have room for him, he was a great slot corner prospect, a young Jon Jones. They traded a good backup QB in Brissett, also had to make a decision between Elandon Roberts and Kamu Grugier-Hill, they had to let Braxton Berrios go and hope they could sneak him on the practice squad, he never made it there, everyone knew how talented he was, Jon Halapio and Hjalte Froholdt were G/C prospect that'd have rather held onto... bad NFL teams would have had room on their roster for all these guys, could have started them even when they weren't ready... where were the Pats supposed to hide these guys.... on the best team in the league... on their practice squad? They'd all be gone tomorrow, they were.

I guess we can pretend that the 2017 draft "sucked," but can it really suck if you have no picks and frankly next to no rookie, even a 1st rounder is cracking the roster on a team trying to repeat as Super Bowl champion and trying to win their 3rd Super Bowl in four years?

Just for reference they won it again next year in 2018 as well, two of their picks (3rd round) Derek Rivers couldn't stay healthy (knees) and their next pick (3rd round) Antonio Garcia had life threatening blood clots after he was drafted, nearly ending his career but derailing it for years. BB should have known that would happen. Their third pick (4th round) Deatrich Wise is a decent role player and fourth pick (6th round) Conor McDermott is still a backup guard in the league who made a few starts this season.

It's "bad" is that you have no picks, but are playing in 4 Super Bowls over 5 years... tell me how that works?

The Rams have no cap space in 2022, no LT, no #2 CB, no OBJ, no draft picks in 2022 and don't make another first until 2025 I think... lol. One ring.

BB doesn't deserve a meaningless award, even though his coaches get patched every year, the league docks him a first every decade, opponents steal or overpay for every free agent and he picks at the back of the draft every year.

N'Keal Harry sucks... boo hoo. Sorry you had to wait a full season to end up back in the playoffs with your rookie QB playing and a blue chip DT and RB to boot. Blame the guy in charge... he sucks.

Welcome to weird world.

Go argue with the Owner.

 

[Wozzy]

View attachment 41152
Go argue with the Owner.

And..?

I think N'Keal sucks as much as the next guy.

They never should have taken a WR in the 1st anyway. WR's have a extraordinarily high failure rate in the draft and they were obviously pressured to because they had no WR's and no money for free agent WR's who are expensive. They were broke as a joke.

Bottom line, Pats could have drafted Deebo or AJ Brown with that pick... Tom is still leaving in 2020 and they still don't win a ring in 2019. I don't know if you watched those guys, but they took half a season to become competent, they weren't immediate superstars... Deebo got benched at midseason. They'd be lucky if Tom let them in the huddle.

And Tom isn't making his decision in 2020 based on what some 22 year old kid did in 2019. The whiners need to get over it. It was a bad pick, it happens, it happened with Chad Jackson. Lesson here, go linemen in the first round, either side of the ball.

Saying easily one of the best personnel guys in football and the best football intellect on the planet isn't very good at his job is a total farce.

 

[venecol]

And..?

I think N'Keal sucks as much as the next guy.

They never should have taken a WR in the 1st anyway. WR's have a extraordinarily high failure rate in the draft and they were obviously pressured to because they had no WR's and no money for free agent WR's who are expensive. They were broke as a joke.

Bottom line, Pats could have drafted Deebo or AJ Brown with that pick... Tom is still leaving in 2020 and they still don't win a ring in 2019. I don't know if you watched those guys, but they took half a season to become competent, they weren't immediate superstars... Deebo got benched at midseason. They'd be lucky if Tom let them in the huddle.

And Tom isn't making his decision in 2020 based on what some 22 year old kid did in 2019. The whiners need to get over it. It was a bad pick, it happens, it happened with Chad Jackson. Lesson here, go linemen in the first round, either side of the ball.

Saying easily one of the best personnel guys in football and the best football intellect on the planet isn't very good at his job is a total farce.

It wasn't just Harry.

2015
Picks: DT Malcom Brown (first round, No. 32), S Jordan Richards (second, No. 64), DE Geneo Grissom (third, No. 97), DE Trey Flowers (fourth, No. 101), G Tre’ Jackson (fourth, No. 111), G Shaq Mason (fourth, No. 131), LS Joe Cardona (fifth, No. 166), LB Matthew Wells (sixth, No. 178), TE A.J. Derby (sixth, No. 202), CB Darryl Roberts (seventh, No. 247), LB Xzavier ****son (seventh, No. 253)

2016
CB Cyrus Jones (second round, No. 60 overall), G Joe Thuney (third, No. 78), QB Jacoby Brissett (third, No. 91), DT Vincent Valentine (third, No. 96), WR Malcolm Mitchell (fourth, No. 112), LB Kamu Grugier-Hill (sixth, No. 208), LB Elandon Roberts (sixth, No. 214), G Ted Karras (sixth, No. 221), WR Devin Lucien (seventh, No. 225)

2017
DE Derek Rivers (third round, No. 83), OT Antonio Garcia (third, No. 85), DE Deatrich Wise (fourth, No. 131), OT Conor McDermott (sixth, No. 211)

2018
OT Isaiah Wynn (first round, No. 23), RB Sony Michel (first, No. 31), CB Duke Dawson (second, No. 56), LB Ja’Whaun Bentley (fifth, No. 143), LB Christian Sam (sixth, No. 178), WR Braxton Berrios (sixth, No. 210), QB Danny Etling (seventh, No. 219), CB Keion Crossen (seventh, No. 243), TE Ryan Izzo (seventh, No. 250)

2019
No. 32: N'Keal Harry, WR, No. 45: Joejuan Williams, CB, No. 77: Chase Winovich, DE, No. 87: Damien Harris, RB, No. 101: Yodny Cajuste, OT, No. 118: Hjalte Froholdt, G, No. 133: Jarrett Stidham, QB, No. 159: Byron Cowart, DT, No. 163: Jake Bailey, P, No. 252: Ken Webster, CB

 

[VectorPrime]

The Rams GM should have won

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

It wasn't just Harry.

2015
Picks: DT Malcom Brown (first round, No. 32), S Jordan Richards (second, No. 64), DE Geneo Grissom (third, No. 97), DE Trey Flowers (fourth, No. 101), G Tre’ Jackson (fourth, No. 111), G Shaq Mason (fourth, No. 131), LS Joe Cardona (fifth, No. 166), LB Matthew Wells (sixth, No. 178), TE A.J. Derby (sixth, No. 202), CB Darryl Roberts (seventh, No. 247), LB Xzavier ****son (seventh, No. 253)

2016
CB Cyrus Jones (second round, No. 60 overall), G Joe Thuney (third, No. 78), QB Jacoby Brissett (third, No. 91), DT Vincent Valentine (third, No. 96), WR Malcolm Mitchell (fourth, No. 112), LB Kamu Grugier-Hill (sixth, No. 208), LB Elandon Roberts (sixth, No. 214), G Ted Karras (sixth, No. 221), WR Devin Lucien (seventh, No. 225)

2017
DE Derek Rivers (third round, No. 83), OT Antonio Garcia (third, No. 85), DE Deatrich Wise (fourth, No. 131), OT Conor McDermott (sixth, No. 211)

2018
OT Isaiah Wynn (first round, No. 23), RB Sony Michel (first, No. 31), CB Duke Dawson (second, No. 56), LB Ja’Whaun Bentley (fifth, No. 143), LB Christian Sam (sixth, No. 178), WR Braxton Berrios (sixth, No. 210), QB Danny Etling (seventh, No. 219), CB Keion Crossen (seventh, No. 243), TE Ryan Izzo (seventh, No. 250)

2019
No. 32: N'Keal Harry, WR, No. 45: Joejuan Williams, CB, No. 77: Chase Winovich, DE, No. 87: Damien Harris, RB, No. 101: Yodny Cajuste, OT, No. 118: Hjalte Froholdt, G, No. 133: Jarrett Stidham, QB, No. 159: Byron Cowart, DT, No. 163: Jake Bailey, P, No. 252: Ken Webster, CB

Ouch

 

[Wozzy]

It wasn't just Harry.

2015
Picks: DT Malcom Brown (first round, No. 32), S Jordan Richards (second, No. 64), DE Geneo Grissom (third, No. 97), DE Trey Flowers (fourth, No. 101), G Tre’ Jackson (fourth, No. 111), G Shaq Mason (fourth, No. 131), LS Joe Cardona (fifth, No. 166), LB Matthew Wells (sixth, No. 178), TE A.J. Derby (sixth, No. 202), CB Darryl Roberts (seventh, No. 247), LB Xzavier ****son (seventh, No. 253)

2016
CB Cyrus Jones (second round, No. 60 overall), G Joe Thuney (third, No. 78), QB Jacoby Brissett (third, No. 91), DT Vincent Valentine (third, No. 96), WR Malcolm Mitchell (fourth, No. 112), LB Kamu Grugier-Hill (sixth, No. 208), LB Elandon Roberts (sixth, No. 214), G Ted Karras (sixth, No. 221), WR Devin Lucien (seventh, No. 225)

2017
DE Derek Rivers (third round, No. 83), OT Antonio Garcia (third, No. 85), DE Deatrich Wise (fourth, No. 131), OT Conor McDermott (sixth, No. 211)

2018
OT Isaiah Wynn (first round, No. 23), RB Sony Michel (first, No. 31), CB Duke Dawson (second, No. 56), LB Ja’Whaun Bentley (fifth, No. 143), LB Christian Sam (sixth, No. 178), WR Braxton Berrios (sixth, No. 210), QB Danny Etling (seventh, No. 219), CB Keion Crossen (seventh, No. 243), TE Ryan Izzo (seventh, No. 250)

2019
No. 32: N'Keal Harry, WR, No. 45: Joejuan Williams, CB, No. 77: Chase Winovich, DE, No. 87: Damien Harris, RB, No. 101: Yodny Cajuste, OT, No. 118: Hjalte Froholdt, G, No. 133: Jarrett Stidham, QB, No. 159: Byron Cowart, DT, No. 163: Jake Bailey, P, No. 252: Ken Webster, CB

From this point forward the team started borrowing against future cap to win, Brady started taking a little less, they used every resource to win and only drafted players who could possibly contribute immediately.

2014: 12-4 (Super Bowl Champ)
2015: 12-4 (Lost Conference Championship)
2016: 14-2 (Super Bowl Champ)
2017: 14-2 (Lost Super Bowl due to injuries)
2018: 14-2 (Super Bowl Champ)
2019: 14-2 (end of dynasty, tapped out, flat broke)

4 Super Bowls, 3 rings = failure

There was no room on these rosters for development. The entire roster was built to "win now." They had to cut good prospects who went elsewhere and thrived. They lost Trey Flowers, Thuney, Malcolm Brown to big contracts elsewhere... these draftees didn't suck because they got priced out of town.

Meanwhile the Rams have no cap space, have about ten starters as free agents, have no draft picks in 2022 and no 1st round pick until 2025...

Rams 1 ring

Never come to a Patriots fan forum for perspective.

 

[venecol]

From this point forward the team started borrowing against future cap to win, Brady started taking a little less, they used every resource to win and only drafted players who could possibly contribute immediately.

2014: 12-4 (Super Bowl Champ)
2015: 12-4 (Lost Conference Championship)
2016: 14-2 (Super Bowl Champ)
2017: 14-2 (Lost Super Bowl due to injuries)
2018: 14-2 (Super Bowl Champ)
2019: 14-2 (end of dynasty, tapped out, flat broke)

4 Super Bowls, 3 rings = failure

There was no room on these rosters for development. The entire roster was built to "win now." They had to cut good prospects who went elsewhere and thrived. They lost Trey Flowers, Thuney, Malcolm Brown to big contracts elsewhere... these draftees didn't suck because they got priced out of town.

Meanwhile the Rams have no cap space, have about ten starters as free agents, have no draft picks in 2022 and no 1st round pick until 2025...

Rams 1 ring

Never come to a Patriots fan forum for perspective.

Not sure what bearing winning SBs has on the quality of the drafts between 2015-2019. You're conflating the two. Brady was one of the main reasons those runs happened.

By 2019, there was very little young quality players on the team because of the drafts. If you're position is that there was no room to develop young players because they were in a win now mode, that still doesn't address the draft quality, but even so, it doesn't speak well for the GM, aside for excuse making which seems to be more common nowadays.

Kraft said in 2021:

"In the end, if you want to have a good, consistent winning football team, you can't do it in free agency," Kraft said Wednesday, via the team's official transcript. "You have to do it through the draft because that's when you're able to get people of great talent, whether it's Willie McGinest or Tom Brady. You get them at a price where you can build the team and be competitive. Once they get to their [second] contract, if they're superstars, you can only balance so many of them."

"Really, the teams who draft well are the ones who will be consistently good," Kraft said. "I don't feel like we've done the greatest job the last few years and I really hope and believe I've seen a different approach this year."

"We missed, to a certain extent, in the draft, so this was our best opportunity," Kraft said of the club's free-agent moves.

 

[Wozzy]

Not sure what bearing winning SBs has on the quality of the drafts between 2015-2019. You're conflating the two. Brady was one of the main reasons those runs happened.

By 2019, there was very little young quality players on the team because of the drafts. If you're position is that there was no room to develop young players because they were in a win now mode, that still doesn't address the draft quality, but even so, it doesn't speak well for the GM, aside for excuse making which seems to be more common nowadays.

Kraft said in 2021:

"In the end, if you want to have a good, consistent winning football team, you can't do it in free agency," Kraft said Wednesday, via the team's official transcript. "You have to do it through the draft because that's when you're able to get people of great talent, whether it's Willie McGinest or Tom Brady. You get them at a price where you can build the team and be competitive. Once they get to their [second] contract, if they're superstars, you can only balance so many of them."

"Really, the teams who draft well are the ones who will be consistently good," Kraft said. "I don't feel like we've done the greatest job the last few years and I really hope and believe I've seen a different approach this year."

"We missed, to a certain extent, in the draft, so this was our best opportunity," Kraft said of the club's free-agent moves.

You don’t understand the correlation between winning all those rings and the eventual end in 2019?

It’s really simple. NFL teams have 53 man rosters and salary caps. Practice squad players can be poached by other teams. There’s no tax shelter in the Cayman islands to hide good young prospects who need time to develop. And there’s absolutely no room on the practice squad when you’re the unquestioned best team in the league with a target on your back and other teams are gunning for your players and assistant coaches.

There were a bunch of developmental draft picks the Patriots waived in the hopes of putting them on the practice squad, or that they traded for draft capital rather than lose them for nothing. These are players still playing football and in some cases playing well. The Pats would have loved to hung onto some of these guys, and these players didn’t “suck” because the Pats had to let them go…. there was no way to hang onto them and develop them. It’s a numbers game.

The roster sat at 53 players… you can’t keep everyone, you can’t hoard players. The players union made sure of that in collective bargaining. Here’s some players from 2014-2019 we’d like to have back on our team… unfortunately wish in one hand and crap in the other, you tell me which fills up first.

Jimmy Garoppolo
Jon Halapio
Darryl Roberts
Jacoby Brissett
Kamu Grugier-Hill
Antonio Garcia
Conor McDermott
Sony Michel
Braxton Berrios
Keion Crossen
Hjalte Froholdt
Ken Webster

 

[TheRainMaker]

Rams should’ve won this award.

 

[Wozzy]

Rams should’ve won this award.

Why?

Quite a few teams in the league could sell their soul, put themselves in cap hell, give away all their #1 draft picks and win one ring.

Most don’t because it’s not sustainable. It will be hilarious if McVay retires, sits a year and starts over elsewhere like Sean Payton plans to.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Why?

Because their moves resulted in a Super Bowl win.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

You don’t understand the correlation between winning all those rings and the eventual end in 2019?

It’s really simple. NFL teams have 53 man rosters and salary caps. Practice squad players can be poached by other teams. There’s no tax shelter in the Cayman islands to hide good young prospects who need time to develop. And there’s absolutely no room on the practice squad when you’re the unquestioned best team in the league with a target on your back and other teams are gunning for your players and assistant coaches.

There were a bunch of developmental draft picks the Patriots waived in the hopes of putting them on the practice squad, or that they traded for draft capital rather than lose them for nothing. These are players still playing football and in some cases playing well. The Pats would have loved to hung onto some of these guys, and these players didn’t “suck” because the Pats had to let them go…. there was no way to hang onto them and develop them. It’s a numbers game.

The roster sat at 53 players… you can’t keep everyone, you can’t hoard players. The players union made sure of that in collective bargaining. Here’s some players from 2014-2019 we’d like to have back on our team… unfortunately wish in one hand and crap in the other, you tell me which fills up first.

Jimmy Garoppolo
Jon Halapio
Darryl Roberts
Jacoby Brissett
Kamu Grugier-Hill
Antonio Garcia
Conor McDermott
Sony Michel
Braxton Berrios
Keion Crossen
Hjalte Froholdt
Ken Webster

This is the list of players you would want back on our Roster? Pls Tell me which of those would start here

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Not sure what bearing winning SBs has on the quality of the drafts between 2015-2019. You're conflating the two. Brady was one of the main reasons those runs happened.

By 2019, there was very little young quality players on the team because of the drafts. If you're position is that there was no room to develop young players because they were in a win now mode, that still doesn't address the draft quality, but even so, it doesn't speak well for the GM, aside for excuse making which seems to be more common nowadays.

The Saints were also in a win now modus and had better drafts. He will defend the bad drafting no matter what.
Just look at the players we drafted, there are few contributors on the team left and some guys still around are more backup guys than starters you built a team around.

Kraft said in 2021:

"In the end, if you want to have a good, consistent winning football team, you can't do it in free agency," Kraft said Wednesday, via the team's official transcript. "You have to do it through the draft because that's when you're able to get people of great talent, whether it's Willie McGinest or Tom Brady. You get them at a price where you can build the team and be competitive. Once they get to their [second] contract, if they're superstars, you can only balance so many of them."

"Really, the teams who draft well are the ones who will be consistently good," Kraft said. "I don't feel like we've done the greatest job the last few years and I really hope and believe I've seen a different approach this year."

"We missed, to a certain extent, in the draft, so this was our best opportunity," Kraft said of the club's free-agent moves.

 

[Wozzy]

Because their moves resulted in a Super Bowl win.

BB’s moves from 2014-2019 netted them 3 rings in four appearances and people are here arguing he sucks at his job.

The Rams gave away their entire future to win one ring.

BB made the playoffs after his reset year, has all his picks, his franchise QB at a rookie pay scale, a good roster of young players, the ability to open up cap space to compete going forward. McVay might skip out the side door because it looks so bleak… borrowing a bunch of money you don’t have so you live like a king for a year isn’t smart.

 

[Wozzy]

This is the list of players you would want back on our Roster? Pls Tell me which of those would start here

Braxton Berrios would fit in nicely in the slot in place of Meyers, plus he’d give them a lot of juice on kickoff returns.

When Jon Jones went down with injury Keion Crossen would have slid in there nicely, the kid’s really talented and played well for us as a rookie in 2018. Darryl Roberts is not as talented as Crossen but more talented than Myles Bryant.

Kamu Grugier-Hill would be handy now with all the free agent LB’ers we have to replace or re-sign, he’s a good player with speed.

Jon Halapio started almost the entire season for the Giants at center and played well until he got hurt. Hjalte Froholdt is another interior linemen who can play center or guard who they didn’t want to let go, but they had a roster crunch in a title chase and hoped to sneak him on the PS.

These are the ones who could start now or make the roster as contributors. Good drafted players they had no way of keeping.