Bad news from Peter King

[Sicilian]

If Hobbs were here, this team could stand one extra injury in the defensive backfield. Therefore, saying that you don't want to use injuries is just a way to avoid dealing with that issue (not that you were deliberately doing so, it's just a by product). That depth is, in fact, the point.

As for O'Neal, it should be noted that the reason he was necessary was that previous signings of DBs like Bryant and Webster didn't pan out. If Bodden and Springs tank, this team may have to Call Mr. O'Neal, (or more likely some other stiff who gets cut) back again.

It's a good point. And given our history (even in the super bowl years) of DB injuries, you may very well be right. I think Belichickfan put it right when he said it was a value decision for BB. In this particular situation, he valued the little bit of cap savings and draft flexibility over carrying six CBs. Only time will tell if that was wise.

I may be wrong, but I see Springs and Bodden as higher quality signings than Webster and Bryant. Sure, both Bodden and Bryant were Detroit castoffs, but Bodden had more success prior to that IMO, and in a Pats-like system to boot. I was disappointed but not surprised with the cuts last year. I would be shocked if both players are not contributors this year (barring injury of course). But we'll see.

 

[Deus Irae]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!:scream:

Quick scenario, with nothing that can't be legitimately argued can't happen.....

Bodden tanks. Springs pops a hammy. Suddenly, the starting CBs are Wheatley/Wilhite/Butler.

Meriweather gets injured. Suddenly, the starting safeties are Chung/Sanders.

At that point, the O'Neal starts may become thought of as "the good ol' days" (I'm being hyperbolic, but you get my point, I'm sure). I think I understand BB's thought process about the trade, but it was a needless risk to take when he had about 50,000 picks available and could have found another way to get his O-lineman. I'm sure the money freed up helps the team with the cap, but that space could have been created either in other ways or later on in training camp once the rookies had time to be properly evaluated.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I may be wrong, but I see Springs and Bodden as higher quality signings than Webster and Bryant.

You're not wrong, it's not even debatable.

The injury thing is legit but only if we would have kept 6 CB had we kept Hobbs. Usually we have 5 CB on the roster. Having 6 would have been injury protection. But had we kept 5 then the injury thing is a non issue as we would have had to cut, say, Wilhite to get to 5.

Whether we're better off with Hobbs vs. (Wilhite + two 5s) that's open for debate.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Quick scenario, with nothing that can't be legitimately argued can't happen.....

Bodden tanks. Springs pops a hammy. Suddenly, the starting CBs are Wheatley/Wilhite/Butler.

It just depends on Belichick's evaluation of Hobbs vs. W/W/B. Unless we would have kept 6 CB which would be atypical but not impossible.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's a good point. And given our history (even in the super bowl years) of DB injuries, you may very well be right. I think Belichickfan put it right when he said it was a value decision for BB. In this particular situation, he valued the little bit of cap savings and draft flexibility over carrying six CBs. Only time will tell if that was wise.

I may be wrong, but I see Springs and Bodden as higher quality signings than Webster and Bryant. Sure, both Bodden and Bryant were Detroit castoffs, but Bodden had more success prior to that IMO, and in a Pats-like system to boot. I was disappointed but not surprised with the cuts last year. I would be shocked if both players are not contributors this year (barring injury of course). But we'll see.

Bryant had been a 5 year starter in the league prior to his Detroit experience. He'd been more successful than Bodden.

 

[Deus Irae]

It just depends on Belichick's evaluation of Hobbs vs. W/W/B. Unless we would have kept 6 CB which would be atypical but not impossible.

Given the injury histories of Springs and Wheatley, this team had better carry an extra CB unless Butler is ready to be a starter from day 1.

 

[PatsBoy12]

This may slightly derail the thread (if we haven't done so already), but why do you all think that BB passed on D'Angelo Hall? The word is that he visited NE and worked out for the team, but they opted for Bodden and Springs while Hall was still on the market. He's younger and faster than both of the signees. Was it his intelligence, or lack thereof, that did him in? Could it have been his attitude? What do you think BB's thought process was regarding him?

 

[shmessy]

Pot, meet kettle.

Almost as good as this one:

Post #8:

"Ho hum ... Another thread to waste space on the main forum"

 

[shmessy]

Quick scenario, with nothing that can't be legitimately argued can't happen.....

Bodden tanks. Springs pops a hammy. Suddenly, the starting CBs are Wheatley/Wilhite/Butler.

Meriweather gets injured. Suddenly, the starting safeties are Chung/Sanders.

At that point, the O'Neal starts may become thought of as "the good ol' days" (I'm being hyperbolic, but you get my point, I'm sure). I think I understand BB's thought process about the trade, but it was a needless risk to take when he had about 50,000 picks available and could have found another way to get his O-lineman. I'm sure the money freed up helps the team with the cap, but that space could have been created either in other ways or later on in training camp once the rookies had time to be properly evaluated.

Four words:

Earth

Wind

More

Land

 

[Deus Irae]

Four words:

Earth

Wind

More

Land

Well one thing's for sure. No matter what the advertisement's say, Deltha DOESN'T get you there.

 

[Pats67]

Don't you guys ever tire of picking on sportswriters? They are only trying to do their job. If you don't like the guy, don't read him.

I respect Peter King. His sources may be off, but the guy can actually write.

Lay off these guys, willya? Sheesh! Boring!

I'll lay off when biases are no longer concealed but owned up to.

I personally find it interesting and worth noting that last week, the Patriots draft, which netted 12 players this year (including six picks in the top 100) and 2 second-round picks next year, is labeled "a strange draft" and the product of a coach/executive "drunk with the power of moving back".

This week, the Eagles draft, which netted eight players (including just two picks in the top 100) and additional picks in rounds 3-7 of next year's draft, is called "a draft clinic" and cited as an example of the way other NFL teams ought to be doing business.

I notice the Eagles piece contains a prominent quote from GM Tom Heckert while we know the Patriots have declined Mr. King's requests since King chose to accept John Tomase's word as gospel in January and February of 2008. You make it sound like these guys are just doing an honest job. I don't give a rats about the Taylor line at all - and I'm not here to tell you that the Patriots cleaned up last weekend either. But I don't know how anybody can't see what's at work here, and I can't imagine how anybody would think this you-scratch-my-back-and-I'll-scratch-yours "reporting" is acceptable from anyone.

 

[unoriginal]

This may slightly derail the thread (if we haven't done so already), but why do you all think that BB passed on D'Angelo Hall?

They probably just had in him to build more of a dossier on him. He's a gambling man-to-man corner, the opposite of what the Pats defense usually wants.

Even if the Pats had wanted him as a Terrell Buckley nickel corner he never would have signed at that price point.

 

[bagwell368]

Don't you guys ever tire of picking on sportswriters? They are only trying to do their job. If you don't like the guy, don't read him.

I respect Peter King. His sources may be off, but the guy can actually write.

Lay off these guys, willya? Sheesh! Boring!

The thread is um, stupid - agreed.

I used to listen to Peter King's spot on EEI, and really like him. Then he revealed he actually has little understanding of the game as it is played due to the way he attacked the Pats on spygate, and on which topics. Poor showing.

I still listen to him from time to time, but with less interest and trust.

 

[Sicilian]

Bryant had been a 5 year starter in the league prior to his Detroit experience. He'd been more successful than Bodden.

But Bodden's success occured in a Romeo defense, which bodes (no pun intended) well for his adaptation to our scheme. Bryant was more of an unknown at the time of his signing IMO.

Quick scenario, with nothing that can't be legitimately argued can't happen.....

Bodden tanks. Springs pops a hammy. Suddenly, the starting CBs are Wheatley/Wilhite/Butler.

Meriweather gets injured. Suddenly, the starting safeties are Chung/Sanders.

At that point, the O'Neal starts may become thought of as "the good ol' days" (I'm being hyperbolic, but you get my point, I'm sure). I think I understand BB's thought process about the trade, but it was a needless risk to take when he had about 50,000 picks available and could have found another way to get his O-lineman. I'm sure the money freed up helps the team with the cap, but that space could have been created either in other ways or later on in training camp once the rookies had time to be properly evaluated.

Again, you're right that injuries can have that effect. But how many teams could sustain a two major injuries to their secondary and one veteran who suddenly plays like crap and survive it? There are some I'm sure, but then they're probably overstocked at those positions and weak on others. I don't know, it just seems like when you look at the worst case scenario, no team is going to look good.

 

[Ring 6]

The DB situation is now in a complete state of flux, and anyone who doesn't see the possible dangers there really needs to look again. It could be that this defensive backfield will be much improved over last year, and that wouldn't take all that much doing. On the other hand, whether people care to admit it or not, it's also possible that this defensive backfield could be considerably worse than last season. That scenario is just 1-2 injuries and slow developing rookies/2nd year players away.

Well, you can make such a statement about any position. I can think of any where a few injuries dont put us in position to rely on rookie or 2nd year guys.
I think comparing what we have today to what we started last season with shows, IMO, that it is very unlikely we will digress.

Springs.....Hobbs (very, very different players. at the least even)
Bodden.....ONeal (without a question an upgrade)
Wheately....Wheately (upgrade if only due to 1 yr exp, and most likely better health)
Wilhite....Wilhite (upgrade for yr 2 vs yr 1)
Butler......Richardson (would have to be an upgrade, otherwise Richardson will stick)

I don't think that we are any more risky than we were last year.
I guess that negative is that if we have more injuries this year than we did last year we could be more heavily exposed to young players maybe not being able to cut it.

I feel a lot better about the corners today than last September. Only time will tell if they get decimated by injury, and if, if they still arent better than last year. We do know that last years corner play was not something to write home about.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'll lay off when biases are no longer concealed but owned up to.

I personally find it interesting and worth noting that last week, the Patriots draft, which netted 12 players this year (including six picks in the top 100) and 2 second-round picks next year, is labeled "a strange draft" and the product of a coach/executive "drunk with the power of moving back".

I prefer Adam Schein's take on FoxSports.com: "The draft is Bill Belichick's world. The rest of us are just living in it."

 

[Pats67]

Bodden tanks. Springs pops a hammy. Suddenly, the starting CBs are Wheatley/Wilhite/Butler.

Meriweather gets injured. Suddenly, the starting safeties are Chung/Sanders.

Please advise as to which NFL teams are ideally positioned to absorb a set of events such as this.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

This may slightly derail the thread (if we haven't done so already), but why do you all think that BB passed on D'Angelo Hall? The word is that he visited NE and worked out for the team, but they opted for Bodden and Springs while Hall was still on the market. He's younger and faster than both of the signees. Was it his intelligence, or lack thereof, that did him in? Could it have been his attitude? What do you think BB's thought process was regarding him?

I am assuming it was a matter of a price tag. BB has an idea of how much his 5 (usually) corners will collectively be paid, and how to maximize the ability within that budget. Hall's asking price was likely a bit too much. I don 't have data to back that up, but it is my best guess.

 

[amazinPats]

Pot, meet kettle.

Last I saw, Peter King doesn't fill up the Patsfans forum with threads dissing sportswriters gratuitously.

 

[Pats67]

I prefer Adam Schein's take on FoxSports.com: "The draft is Bill Belichick's world. The rest of us are just living in it."

I am not interested in him being given an award a day or a week after the draft, either. The results will be on the field soon enough.

Just give me a fair account. Don't rap them the day after the draft with some headshaking "drunk with power" comment and then a week later laud the Eagles draft (which netted less this year and next) as innovative and worthy of emulation by the other teams in the league.