Are we set at LB?

[Real fan 02]

Back to the original thread, the only problem I can find with the defense is that there are plenty of chess pieces, but we’re short one high end starter. If White plays DL we’re thin at LB, and vice versa. Mapu, Peppers and Dugger are all variations of the same guy, and each is a liability at mid-field coverage.

I think a high end coverage LB is exactly the missing piece. It’s unlikely that Mapu is going to be that guy.

Vrabel and Williams play 2 LBs 4 DL,5
DBs, we have on the DL farmer, Tonga, Williams, Barmore, pharms, white.


mapu, Elliss, Spillane, Landry, Jennings,Tavai, Swinson, Chaisson, UDFA, Or veteran FA to come.

Marpu, Dugger, Hawkins or even Woodson can fill that role you mentioned.
Additionally we have a great coverage LB in Spillane guys quick to the ball and excellent against the run. However I agree adding another quality player would be nice. A name out there is Pratt would was just released.

 

[mgteich]

Vrabel and Williams play 2 LBs 4 DL,5
DBs, we have on the DL farmer, Tonga, Williams, Barmore, pharms, white.


mapu, Elliss, Spillane, Landry, Jennings,Tavai, Swinson, Chaisson, UDFA, Or veteran FA to come.

Marpu, Dugger, Hawkins or even Woodson can fill that role you mentioned.
Additionally we have a great coverage LB in Spillane guys quick to the ball and excellent against the run. However I agree adding another quality player would be nice. A name out there is Pratt would was just released.

If our base is 4-2-5, then I suggest that there is no need for NINE OL's as you list. We need a 10th DB instead of a 9th LB. So, there is no need for that UDFA or addition. HOWEVER, I believe that Gibbens might very well beat out Mapu for a roster spot.

 

[JohnJH]

I think you got this one right. We need a Mapu or two with speed for the running QBs, it makes a big difference.

The big question that still remains with Mapu is: Can he stay healthy?

 

[JohnJH]

One concern with Mapu that isn't a minor one, is whether or not he can stay healthy (especially for an entire season, or least for most of it).

 

[Real fan 02]

If our base is 4-2-5, then I suggest that there is no need for NINE OL's as you list. We need a 10th DB instead of a 9th LB. So, there is no need for that UDFA or addition. HOWEVER, I believe that Gibbens might very well beat out Mapu for a roster spot.

Interesting you mentioned 10th DB.. I believe we should be in on jaire Alexander. A one year 10 million deal would be fair. Guy's been an all pro and one of the best DBs in the NFL.

 

[signbabybrady]

The big question that still remains with Mapu is: Can he stay healthy?

He missed a few games last year but I thought he was available for all 17 his rookie year. He didn't always play but because he was still a rookie and hadn't earned it yet.

 

[mgteich]

Interesting you mentioned 10th DB.. I believe we should be in on jaire Alexander. A one year 10 million deal would be fair. Guy's been an all pro and one of the best DBs in the NFL.

The issue is his health. Obviously, he would add a lot to our secondary. We play a nickel as our base, and I don't like the quality of our backup corners.

STARTERS AT CORNER (all with injury histories)
Gonzalez, Davis, Jones

BACKUPS
Austin, Bolden, Dial
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If Vrabel isn't concerned, then he has magician doctors and/or
1) he has an extensive list of available players
2) he has a secret that folks here refuse to acknoledge (that woodson is our backup nicelback).
===============
I think it much, much more likely that Woodson will start at NB than at FS. The question is who is less likely to be available: Jones or Peppers.

 

[Real fan 02]

The issue is his health. Obviously, he would add a lot to our secondary. We play a nickel as our base, and I don't like the quality of our backup corners.

STARTERS AT CORNER (all with injury histories)
Gonzalez, Davis, Jones

BACKUPS
Austin, Bolden, Dial
===================
If Vrabel isn't concerned, then he has magician doctors and/or
1) he has an extensive list of available players
2) he has a secret that folks here refuse to acknoledge (that woodson is our backup nicelback).
===============
I think it much, much more likely that Woodson will start at NB than at FS. The question is who is less likely to be available: Jones or Peppers.

Mighty mouse, Jones would be my best guess on his availability. He plays on STs as well and alot of snaps on D.. so his injury probability is likely.

You are right the depth is a tad bit uncertain. I believe Austin is the next man up should one of our alpha Dawgs on the outside have to miss time.

Beyond Austin we have guys with size like Bolden and dial. However if we signed Alexander it would be huge.

I think Vrabel wants Woodson at free safety.

 

[mgteich]

Mighty mouse, Jones would be my best guess on his availability. He plays on STs as well and alot of snaps on D.. so his injury probability is likely.

You are right the depth is a tad bit uncertain. I believe Austin is the next man up should one of our alpha Dawgs on the outside have to miss time.

Beyond Austin we have guys with size like Bolden and dial. However if we signed Alexander it would be huge.

I think Vrabel wants Woodson at free safety.

If one of the 4 CB's were injured. you would play the other three and have Bolden as your backup and probably need to carry Dial as your other backup. You would CHOOSE to have Wooden ride the bench for the season and wait for Peppers to get injured?
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I think that Woodson was one of the better nickel backs available, certainly from the 4th round onward. We needed and need a nickel back (a backup when Jones is healthy.
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In any case, if Woodson is scheduled to sit and wait until Peppers is injured, then so be it. Even good coaches can make mistakes. BTW, I am NOT saying that Woodson's 2026 future isn't at free safety.
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MY QUESTION
Tell me who the #5 CB is. If your answer is Bolden, then we have a problem. If the answer is Woodson, we don't, although we still could use an additional corner.
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[Real fan 02]

If one of the 4 CB's were injured. you would play the other three and have Bolden as your backup and probably need to carry Dial as your other backup. You would CHOOSE to have Wooden ride the bench for the season and wait for Peppers to get injured?
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I think that Woodson was one of the better nickel backs available, certainly from the 4th round onward. We needed and need a nickel back (a backup when Jones is healthy.
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In any case, if Woodson is scheduled to sit and wait until Peppers is injured, then so be it. Even good coaches can make mistakes. BTW, I am NOT saying that Woodson's 2026 future isn't at free safety.
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MY QUESTION
Tell me who the #5 CB is. If your answer is Bolden, then we have a problem. If the answer is Woodson, we don't, although we still could use an additional corner.
=========

Woodson is a S, not sure why you see him as a nickel?.. Woodson has a real chance to become long-term answer at FS, we have not had a real FS since McCourty retired.

We have 2 excellent safeties in peppers and Dugger. However they will be up more around the LOS so that field general FS is at the evermost of importance.

Most teams don't have great depth beyond thier top players.. adequate depth at premium position is what we have.

The presence of gonzo and Davis on the outside along with a much better pass rush will allow all the other guys Jones, Austin for example to make plays.

 

[Wozzy]

Vrabel prefers a large stable of OLB’s who he can move around and rush the passer with and play contain… they have a big group of strong athletic studs there. Jennings or another OLB have some versatility to move inside and play a little SAM LB if they need a thumper, he did a little of that at Alabama.

Harold Landry, Anfernee Jennings, K'Lavon Chaisson, Bradyn Swinson, Elijah Ponder.

Vrabel prefers smallish quick LB’ers who can maintain a high level of team speed behind the line.

Christian Elliss, Marte Mapu, Robert Spillane, Jack Gibbens.

They don’t have a large stable of middle LB’ers ^ but they have Strong Safeties in spades…. a big group of studs v there.

Kyle Dugger, Jabrill Peppers, Marcus Epps, Brenden Schooler, Craig Woodson.

What’s the difference between a Weakside LB and a Strong Safety…. 5 pounds… nothing?

Add some weight to Mapu and move him up into the MLB column above if it makes you feel better. These guys ability to do their job and be good is dependent on the defensive front.

If the team stays healthy they have plenty of talent there. They have guys that can fly.

 

[Real fan 02]

Vrabel prefers a large stable of OLB’s who he can move around and rush the passer with and play contain… they have a big group of strong athletic studs there. Jennings or another OLB have some versatility to move inside and play a little SAM LB if they need a thumper, he did a little of that at Alabama.

Harold Landry, Anfernee Jennings, K'Lavon Chaisson, Bradyn Swinson, Elijah Ponder.

Vrabel prefers smallish quick LB’ers who can maintain a high level of team speed behind the line.

Christian Elliss, Marte Mapu, Robert Spillane, Jack Gibbens.

They don’t have a large stable of middle LB’ers ^ but they have Strong Safeties in spades…. a big group of studs v there.

Kyle Dugger, Jabrill Peppers, Marcus Epps, Brenden Schooler, Craig Woodson.

What’s the difference between a Weakside LB and a Strong Safety…. 5 pounds… nothing?

Add some weight to Mapu and move him up into the MLB column above if it makes you feel better. These guys ability to do their job and be good is dependent on the defensive front.

If the team stays healthy they have plenty of talent there. They have guys that can fly.

Good stuff Wozzy, spot on. This defense by far is probably the most talented we've had in a while.

I just don't see how anyone offense is going to have thier way.. sure Williams will be willing to give up stuff to an offense.. like all Defenses do. But teams won't be running 17x in a row against them. The pressure will be created by the interior of the DL.. condensing the pocket and forcing QB into the edge players. The DL has the potential to be near dominate against the run.

As I've mentioned before. A team like Buffalo who's James Cook is thier offense. Take him away from Allen and you've severely hamper thier offense. The perimeter is locked down so Allen becomes the check down king.

 

[Wozzy]

Good stuff Wozzy, spot on. This defense by far is probably the most talented we've had in a while.

Best since 2019 if healthy and the youth develops, younger and quicker than the 2021 defense for sure.

I just don't see how anyone offense is going to have thier way.. sure Williams will be willing to give up stuff to an offense.. like all Defenses do. But teams won't be running 17x in a row against them. The pressure will be created by the interior of the DL.. condensing the pocket and forcing QB into the edge players. The DL has the potential to be near dominate against the run.

As I've mentioned before. A team like Buffalo who's James Cook is thier offense. Take him away from Allen and you've severely hamper thier offense. The perimeter is locked down so Allen becomes the check down king.

Barmore has to be healthy, there’s a large talent gap if he’s not at DT. They don’t have another guy like Barmore behind him.

They have a situational run stuffer in Khyiris Tonga, a potentially good three technique Wise replacement in Joshua Farmer… but they could use another pure stud DT who can play nose tackle but still be an every down player… next year’s draft maybe.

 

[Real fan 02]

Best since 2019 if healthy and the youth develops, younger and quicker than the 2021 defense for sure.

Barmore has to be healthy, there’s a large talent gap if he’s not at DT. They don’t have another guy like Barmore behind him.

They have a situational run stuffer in Khyiris Tonga, a potentially good three technique Wise replacement in Joshua Farmer… but they could use another pure stud DT who can play nose tackle but still be an every down player… next year’s draft maybe.

Agreed. I also believe why vrabel took a big approach to strengthen the DL.. Tonga is a upgrade over Godchaux.. guy's a Holgthi Naghta type presence against the run.. big on farmer guy can rush and play the run. Barmore looks excellent. Him remaining healthy is key as you mentioned. While I do like the 2019 defense our LBs are faster and more athletic.

 

[patfanken]

Yes, Mapu played a lot of reps at safety last year.

That being said, Vrabel saw the need to sign Epps, draft Woodson and to re-sign Hawkins.

If Vrabel really liked Mapu's performance at safety, he would be practicing more at safety.

I remember when he was drafted and we started looking at WHY he drafted so high, I felt he was always going to be a LB who was good at coverage. He's 6'3, and lean, so I thought adding weight would be no problem.

Now he's 230 and could probably easily add another 5-10 lbs over the next couple of years. I THINK the talent is there. We just have to see if he can put it together to at LEAST be able to become a regular contributor in certain defensive packages, it will be a big win for the team as expectations are low.

 

[patfanken]

The issue is his health. Obviously, he would add a lot to our secondary. We play a nickel as our base, and I don't like the quality of our backup corners.

STARTERS AT CORNER (all with injury histories)
Gonzalez, Davis, Jones

BACKUPS
Austin, Bolden, Dial
===================
If Vrabel isn't concerned, then he has magician doctors and/or
1) he has an extensive list of available players
2) he has a secret that folks here refuse to acknoledge (that woodson is our backup nicelback).
===============
I think it much, much more likely that Woodson will start at NB than at FS. The question is who is less likely to be available: Jones or Peppers.

Bolden is an interesting prospect for that 4th CB/depth guy. He has the size and speed but he's not lightning quick. But I think he could be very effective in the right match ups.

This is his 3rd year and we COULD see an improvement that will make him a regular contributor or at least a core ST's guy. IIRC he's a 6'3 sub 4.4 athlete.

 

[Love The Drake]

Bolden is an interesting prospect for that 4th CB/depth guy. He has the size and speed but he's not lightning quick. But I think he could be very effective in the right match ups.

This is his 3rd year and we COULD see an improvement that will make him a regular contributor or at least a core ST's guy. IIRC he's a 6'3 sub 4.4 athlete.

Bolden was my draft binkie, so I’d love to see him make it.
He may make it over Dial.

 

[Real fan 02]

I remember when he was drafted and we started looking at WHY he drafted so high, I felt he was always going to be a LB who was good at coverage. He's 6'3, and lean, so I thought adding weight would be no problem.

Now he's 230 and could probably easily add another 5-10 lbs over the next couple of years. I THINK the talent is there. We just have to see if he can put it together to at LEAST be able to become a regular contributor in certain defensive packages, it will be a big win for the team as expectations are low.

He is the ultimate chess piece a DC like Williams will embrace. health has been his nemesis. He has shown range, ability and awareness. He's shown he can be a sure tackler and his closing speed is ridiculous. I'm rooting for Marty.. I hope he can get fully healthy and be a key contributor. Seeing how he was moved to LB means Vrabel's got plans for him. As I've posted before we can't just write off all our players we need to develop them and allow them to reach thier potential under real coaching.

 

[Real fan 02]

Bolden was my draft binkie, so I’d love to see him make it.
He may make it over Dial.

Dial plays on ST, S, CB. I like Bolden size and speed. He will have a chance as we will be playing more DBs on the field more this season.

 

[mgteich]

Woodson is a S, not sure why you see him as a nickel?.. Woodson has a real chance to become long-term answer at FS, we have not had a real FS since McCourty retired.

We have 2 excellent safeties in peppers and Dugger. However they will be up more around the LOS so that field general FS is at the evermost of importance.

Most teams don't have great depth beyond thier top players.. adequate depth at premium position is what we have.

The presence of gonzo and Davis on the outside along with a much better pass rush will allow all the other guys Jones, Austin for example to make plays.

Ok, take one of the nickels to come out and decide that he can sit on the bench (get a few reps)wait a year or two while he waits to be our free safety.

That is a gross waste of talent. We need a backup nickel. Woodson can do the job.

With Woodson as the backup nickel, Bolden and Dial compete for the "position" of 6th CB/ST which is fine.
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