Are the WRs actually getting open?

[PP2]

You're pretending the view from 100 feet up in the air or the angle of trajectory from where Brissett is standing is the same. The ball has to travel in a straight line and defensive players have arms. It's a ridiculous take.

You're kidding me right? Even though the pass doesn't have any zip in it, Williams never gets anywhere near it in the duration of the play.

But let's assume Brissett throws it with plenty of zip, and accurately, the pass is still out of his reach. Why? Because a long pass never travels in a straight line as you're trying to claim here. Long passes will always arch.

And Williams is right where the apex of the pass would be.

 

[moosekill]

Fairly damning on our QB/OL here. We've been wanting WRs with separation for years. Now that we have it, they can't get the ball.

Guys, it is the qb. He is mediocre,the reason he is mediocre is he makes very slow reads. He doesn't make mistakes, that cost you the game, but he can't win you the game. Teams know this and play for him to do that. Coupled with a poor to perhaps mediocre ol at best and we aren't going to win many games.

 

[MrTibbs]

It’s hard to evaluate with stills. It seems his current progression is the receiver on the logo. in the is he open? Depends what’s happening with the underneath him at the 44, and where the route is taking him. Looks like a checkdown possibility but again what is the Lb doing? Almost impossible to assess in a still photo.

This was from a video...the 3rd and 2 play the HB checkdown may have been a bit iffy because the LB was drawing down on the HB BUT Henry was open for a second if Jacoby hit him with timing.

 

[Ring 6]

This was from a video...the 3rd and 2 play the HB checkdown may have been a bit iffy because the LB was drawing down on the HB BUT Henry was open for a second if Jacoby hit him with timing.

I understand that still come from a video but you can’t analyze a play from a still. Henry (bottom of screen) isn’t close to open there is a defender draped all over him.

 

[Ring 6]

PFF Separation %

Douglas 69.5%
Polk 60.8%
Thornton 58.8%

Pats have 3 of the top 34 WR per PFF in Separation % So there is multiple data places saying Pats WR have been open

These statistics look shaky (the route numbers suggest it’s only week 1 btw) but you can’t use this to analyze football. It’s not defined, it’s not applicable, it doesn’t address when in the route they were open, or what progression they were etc etc. If you want to believe Tyquan Thornton is better at getting open than Ceedee lamb and Devante Adams, I’d like to show you some statistics where you are better off financially by giving me all your money.

 

[JMC00]

Fairly damning on our QB/OL here. We've been wanting WRs with separation for years. Now that we have it, they can't get the ball.

and it isn't like the WRs been playing j.a.g secondary's, Bengals and Seahawks have good secondary's, Seattle's might be the best secondary in the league

 

[MrTibbs]

There's an entire thread of Jacoby missing open receivers on Reddit. He had guys wide open all day and didn't even look at them. I know, the source is what it is, but so are the clips contained within:

The evidence is overwhelming...Drake Maye starting well before mid-season. No way they can keep rolling Brissette out there, if so Mayo is bound to lose the locker room.

 

[dliverey44]

PFF Separation %

Douglas 69.5%
Polk 60.8%
Thornton 58.8%

Pats have 3 of the top 34 WR per PFF in Separation % So there is multiple data places saying Pats WR have been open

I wonder if there is any way to drill down to separation % when JB has an opportunity to throw (defenders a certain distance from him). Is that Jakobi Meyers, the guy that many people on this very site told me he cannot get open and was just mid? I read that of the pressures that JB has had only 4 were "quick pressures" under 2.5 seconds.


As bad as the OL is JB is almost equally as bad. JB has avoided a lot of sacks and not turned the ball over and that is what saves him from being as bad as the OL. The lack of WR receptions I put more on the JB than the OL because he does not read the defense very well and seemingly would rather be conservative than risk a turnover.

 

[203Pat]

I don't know what we are arguing about. The receivers aren't "wide open" but they're getting open. Doesn't make much difference when Jacoby is running for his life on every passing play.

 

[Toofy]

check this film review.. just the first video gives you so much opportunity. 1st , 2nd, 3rd read all open and still jacoby not throwing..

 

[BennyBledsoe]

I have yet to read anything I consider well-researched by Kyles. I doubt his video evidence is any more compelling.

 

[PP2]

I don't get the hate people have for Taylor Kyles in here. He cut his teeth breaking down film and compiling scouting reports for Syracuse football. Don't think he would have lasted long if he wasn't competent.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

People change. Now that he has this as a job, where it's public and competing for space, he doesn't seem to be doing anything more than the standard in the industry, which unfortunately, is not as substantive as the work he did at Syracuse.

 

[Wozzy]

You're kidding me right? Even though the pass doesn't have any zip in it, Williams never gets anywhere near it in the duration of the play.

But let's assume Brissett throws it with plenty of zip, and accurately, the pass is still out of his reach. Why? Because a long pass never travels in a straight line as you're trying to claim here. Long passes will always arch.

And Williams is right where the apex of the pass would be.

It’s not a long pass, “zip” flattens the pass it doesn’t increase the arc. Sure Polk looks semi open from 100 feet off the ground. At field level Jacoby sees a wall of defenders between him and Polk, and by the time Polk is breaking free the LB is inches away from him.

Just admit this is a call to start Drake Maye by all you “wide open” guys.

Want to blame someone, look to Van Pelt. The passing offense should revolve around Demario Douglass and Henry, call more plays to get Demario involved.

 

[mgteich]

It’s not a long pass, “zip” flattens the pass it doesn’t increase the arc. Sure Polk looks semi open from 100 feet off the ground. At field level Jacoby sees a wall of defenders between him and Polk, and by the time Polk is breaking free the LB is inches away from him.

Just admit this is a call to start Drake Maye by all you “wide open” guys.

Want to blame someone, look to Van Pelt. The passing offense should revolve around Demario Douglass and Henry, call more plays to get Demario involved.

perhaps Henry is more open than Douglas

 

[Wozzy]

perhaps Henry is more open than Douglas

Have they attempted one end around, how about a screen to Douglas who is lightning quick instead of Polk, there are ways to effectively get the ball into a player's hands and let him create.

This offense has been pretty bland and shown no real identity outside of wanting to run the ball. It's early still, but Douglas was smoking everyone this camp and the last one for that matter... now he's disappeared. They want to get the ball out quickly because the pass blocking stinks, nobody is quicker than Douglas.

 

[203Pat]

Have they attempted one end around, how about a screen to Douglas who is lightning quick instead of Polk, there are ways to effectively get the ball into a player's hands and let him create.

This offense has been pretty bland and shown no real identity outside of wanting to run the ball. It's early still, but Douglas was smoking everyone this camp and the last one for that matter... now he's disappeared. They want to get the ball out quickly because the pass blocking stinks, nobody is quicker than Douglas.

They don't seem to be utilizing the receivers strengths right now. Polk on the jet sweep or reverse or whatever the hell it was doesn't make sense. Let a guy like Thornton take that and see if he can get around the corner and get a big gain. They also don't seem to be trying to get Douglas the ball through screens or end arounds or even a quick slant if he isn't getting pressed. There just seems to be no innovation in the passing game right now and yes, the offensive line is a problem, but there are ways to get the ball in your playmakers hands and we don't seem to be trying to do that.

 

[PP2]

It’s not a long pass, “zip” flattens the pass it doesn’t increase the arc. Sure Polk looks semi open from 100 feet off the ground. At field level Jacoby sees a wall of defenders between him and Polk, and by the time Polk is breaking free the LB is inches away from him.

Just admit this is a call to start Drake Maye by all you “wide open” guys.

Want to blame someone, look to Van Pelt. The passing offense should revolve around Demario Douglass and Henry, call more plays to get Demario involved.

Polk was free the entire route. I just posted a diagram showing that he had a full step on his man. I even drew a square around it for your benefit.

And that pass is about 20-22 yards so yes it's going to have an arch to it. Sure, a QB with a cannon of an arm could theoretically throw the ball hard enough to have it go straight as an arrow, but then it's going to be uncatchable. It'll poink off the receiver or go right through his hands.

Blame AVP? Brissett was in his offense for a full year in Cleveland. So why is it now AVP's fault this time around?

On this one play, Brissett just didn't put enough zip in his pass. That's all there is to it.

 

[Mack Herron]

They sought to improve WRs and they did. They addressed the QB issue and Brissett is just a bridge. Brissett was never expected to be very good but you could argue there were better options. There is no argument that they failed to address the OT problem. I question whether we can develop a consistently productive passing game with this OL and QB.

 

[Wozzy]

Polk was free the entire route. I just posted a diagram showing that he had a full step on his man. I even drew a square around it for your benefit.

And that pass is about 20-22 yards so yes it's going to have an arch to it. Sure, a QB with a cannon of an arm could theoretically throw the ball hard enough to have it go straight as an arrow, but then it's going to be uncatchable. It'll poink off the receiver or go right through his hands.

Blame AVP? Brissett was in his offense for a full year in Cleveland. So why is it now AVP's fault this time around?

On this one play, Brissett just didn't put enough zip in his pass. That's all there is to it.

I can't argue this stupidity anymore, it's simply wrong.

The Pats gave up 7 more sacks tonight against the Jests... let me guess, everyone was open but Jacoby wasn't amazing enough to not need blocking.