Are the Giants Overrated?

[Ivan]

And to face Tim Tebow, and the Lee Evans choke.

Luck is a factor for every team that reaches the SB every season and fans who think otherwise are deluded. Every team has to overcome injuries, bad luck, and bad calls to win the Lombardi, and the one that withstands all of those factors the best team that year, period. The "buts" never matter one bit and people can talk talk talk all they want but in the end the Champion is the team that wins the Super Bowl, and all the bullsh.t in the world will never change that fact.


The Giants caught some luck against SF and the Patriots caught some against Baltimore, that's just the way it goes and it is always the same every season. Imo the Play-offs have broken well for the Patriots, with GB, NO, and Pitt all getting knocked out, but they still have to overcome a good giants team to win it all, if they do then they are the champs, if they don't the Giants are, regardless of what happens during the game. excuses are always for losers, as the winners don't make them.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Probably the same way the Pats got Cundiff to wiff on a gimmie field goal.

Huh?

The Patriots dominated both line of scrimmages.

The game was close based on some unforced bad play from Brady. "Normal" Brady and that game was a 2-3 score win.

You do realize the Patriots won that game -2 in turnovers?

That outcome is explainable.

it appears the Giants have some Jedi mind power. How do you explain?

 

[Catch42]

The biggest difference in the Giants is their turnover ratio. I'm sure getting Osi and Boley healthy has helped with that. But their turnover ratio the last five games (11:2) is so far out of whack with what it was during their previous 14 games (26:23) that it can't be explained simply by getting a couple of guys back.

An 11:2 ratio over 5 games = 2.2 turnovers created vs. 0.4 turnovers lost. Project that over 16 games and you end up with this:

35 turnovers created
6 turnovers lost
+29 turnover margin

The previous 14 games they created 26 turnovers, which = 1.9 per game. Project that over 16 games = 30. So it's not a whole lot different than what they were doing when they went 7-7.

It's the turnovers lost that is the amazing thing. 6 turnovers lost over 16 games is incredible. Over the season they lost 23 over 14 games which equals 26 lost over 16 games.

So their first 14 games' worth of turnovers projected over 16 games comes to this:

30 turnovers created
26 turnovers lost
+4 turnover margin

So you can see just how great they've been at protecting the ball. They've had numerous fumbles over this stretch but really haven't lost any. That's SO unusual...it's a real statistical anomaly, and it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Boley, Tuch, or Umenyiora.

It might. Aside from the 49ers game most of the other games have been fairly 1 sided. Eli hasn't had to drive back at the end and force the ball into tight windows. One the other hand when the defense was getting man handled every week, Manning was carrying the team and had to play with a much smaller margin of error. It might not be directly connected and the ball has bounced the right way (especially last week) but I'm not willing to say there is no connection.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Probably the same way the Pats got Cundiff to wiff on a gimmie field goal.

The dude was only making 3 out of 4 this season. Gostkowski, who is usually money whiffed on an even shorter FG attempt at the the end of the first half in the Week 9 game. The whole outcome of the game could have been different. You made more plays, you won the game. We made more plays than the Ravens, we won the game.

 

[giants4sb]

"Yes....but is he lucky"

- Napolean Bonaparte

Don't be so defensive. So what if the Giants are extremely lucky. It's better than good.

I'd rather have the luckiest desperate duck in Super Bowl history wind up on a helmet than some actual clutch game ending drive.

Same as having Hail Mary's, Kuhn handoff fumbles, rookies letting the ball hit them, 49er DB's dropping INT because they ran into each other.

A blind squirrel has gots to live.

Lol, oh no the Pats made it here completely on skill then right? Don't be defensive because that quote you said can be applied to your team more so than mine. Also don't be mad about Tyree, GREATEST SB catch ever, that demonstrated amazing concentration over luck. No one has ever argued that was luck, deal with it, it ruined your dream season whatever. Moving on Pats fans, your team has not won anything since you cheated, you have choked in the playoffs regularly, and are only in the Super Bowl because of pure luck. So what we got some breaks in the Packers game, we almost won by THREE touchdowns to a defending Super Bowl 15-1 championship team that barely beat us in the regular season. We could have even won by 4 touchdowns if the refs weren't screwing us out of calls all day. Even Rodgers said the Giants were the better team, so your logic of getting extremely lucky can be thrown out for this game. Now onto your first game you verse a Tim Tebow team who was just estatic to be there. Instead of the Steelers, you get Tim Tebow. This fraud of a qb will be exposed this upcoming year, and he will not be a qb in this league that much longer. Now verse the Ravens you let Joe Flacco the playoff choker have a career day, and then you have Tom Brady " the playoff hero" lay a complete goose egg. Somehow you guys manage to win with luck in a Lee Evans touchdown pass ( was more of a drop then a defensive play), and one of the worse playoff field goal shanks of all time. Thats as close to the definition of lucky as you are going to get. Now for us, we went into a hostile environment against a very good 49ers teams that took out the Saints. This game could have gone EITHER way, but turnovers made the difference. The game deciding turnover was a great strip ( not luck ) then awesome effort to recover the fumble. They always do say how important ST are. So now with our playoff paths clearly defined, you can say it really is a joke that your fan base is in a position to criticize our team while were the ones that should be. Why do you think that anyone who knows football and isn't a Pats and Giants fan, thinks that Giants will win? The facts are pretty evident.

 

[Catch42]

The dude was only making 3 out of 4 this season. Gostkowski, who is usually money whiffed on an even shorter FG attempt at the the end of the first half in the Week 9 game. The whole outcome of the game could have been different. You made more plays, you won the game. We made more plays than the Ravens, we won the game.

Yeah pretty much what I've been saying. I was responding in the same manner as jedi mind trick above. Either way back to reading, not much to learn from discussions on this site. Here's hoping for a safe game.

 

[Ivan]

Why do you think that anyone who knows football and isn't a Pats and Giants fan, thinks that Giants will win? The facts are pretty evident.

Because the Giants allowed more points than they scored?

 

[giants4sb]

Because the Giants allowed more points than they scored?

No because the Giants own the Patriots, are the better team, and will back that up in the SB. Go plan your victory party with Brady lets see how that works out.

 

[Ivan]

I keep wondering what the Giants weakness is? If you allow moree points than you score then either your offense sucks or your defense sucks, they cannot both be good.

In this case I'm going with the defense because the offense put up almost 400 points. unfortunately for them their defense allowed exactly 400 points.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Lol, oh no the Pats made it here completely on skill then right? Don't be defensive because that quote you said can be applied to your team more so than mine. Also don't be mad about Tyree, GREATEST SB catch ever, that demonstrated amazing concentration over luck. No one has ever argued that was luck, deal with it, it ruined your dream season whatever. Moving on Pats fans, your team has not won anything since you cheated, you have choked in the playoffs regularly, and are only in the Super Bowl because of pure luck. So what we got some breaks in the Packers game, we won almost by THREE touchdowns to a defending Super Bowl 15-1 championship team that barely beat us in the regular season.

17 points is three touchdowns?

We could have won by 4 touchdowns if the refs weren't screwing us out of calls all day.

Cool story, bruh.

Even Rodgers said the Giants were the better team, so your logic of getting extremely lucky can be thrown out for this game. Now onto your first game verse a Tim Tebow team who was just estatic to be there. Instead of the Steelers, you get Tim Tebow. This fraud of a qb will be exposed this upcoming year, and he will not be a qb in this league that much longer. Now verse the Ravens you let Joe Flacco the playoff choker have a career day, and then you have Tom Brady " the playoff hero" lay a complete goose egg. Somehow you guys manage to win with luck in a Lee Evans touchdown pass( was more of a drop then a defensive play),

Huh? Moore chopped the ball out of his hands.

Sports Science: Moore's slap-away - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

and one of the worse playoff field goal shanks of all time. Thats as close to the definition of lucky as you are going to get.

That FG only would have tied the game.

Now for us, we went into a hostile environment against a very good 49ers teams that took out the Saints. This game could have gone EITHER way, but turnovers made the difference. The game deciding turnover was a great strip ( not luck ) then awesome effort to recover the fumble.

The boneheaded play by Williams to let the punt bounce off his knee didn't affect the outcome of the game? After that play he never should have tried to run one back. In fact, before the OT fumble he was fair catching everything.

They always do say how important ST are. So now with our playoff paths clearly defined, you can say it really is a joke that your fan base is in a position to criticize our team while we the ones that should be. Why do you think that anyone who knows football and isn't a Pats and Giants fan, thinks that Giants will win? The facts are pretty evident.

Because people hate the Pats and generally speaking most people only think that they "know football". It's the little things like: "how many points are awarded for a touchdown".

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Lol, oh no the Pats made it here completely on skill then right? Don't be defensive because that quote you said can be applied to your team more so than mine. Also don't be mad about Tyree, GREATEST SB catch ever, that demonstrated amazing concentration over luck. No one has ever argued that was luck, deal with it, it ruined your dream season whatever. Moving on Pats fans, your team has not won anything since you cheated, you have choked in the playoffs regularly, and are only in the Super Bowl because of pure luck. So what we got some breaks in the Packers game, we almost won by THREE touchdowns to a defending Super Bowl 15-1 championship team that barely beat us in the regular season. We could have even won by 4 touchdowns if the refs weren't screwing us out of calls all day. Even Rodgers said the Giants were the better team, so your logic of getting extremely lucky can be thrown out for this game. Now onto your first game you verse a Tim Tebow team who was just estatic to be there. Instead of the Steelers, you get Tim Tebow. This fraud of a qb will be exposed this upcoming year, and he will not be a qb in this league that much longer. Now verse the Ravens you let Joe Flacco the playoff choker have a career day, and then you have Tom Brady " the playoff hero" lay a complete goose egg. Somehow you guys manage to win with luck in a Lee Evans touchdown pass( was more of a drop then a defensive play), and one of the worse playoff field goal shanks of all time. Thats as close to the definition of lucky as you are going to get. Now for us, we went into a hostile environment against a very good 49ers teams that took out the Saints. This game could have gone EITHER way, but turnovers made the difference. The game deciding turnover was a great strip ( not luck ) then awesome effort to recover the fumble. They always do say how important ST are. So now with our playoff paths clearly defined, you can say it really is a joke that your fan base is in a position to criticize our team while we the ones that should be. Why do you think that anyone who knows football and isn't a Pats and Giants fan, thinks that Giants will win? The facts are pretty evident.

Huh?

Thanks

I never knew half time Hail Mary TD's and balls bouncing off rookies was so skillful!!!

Who knew!!!!

I'm sure a perfect explanation is all those trap the ball on the helmet drills that are performed in training camp.

Again, don't be so defensive!!!!!!.....just ask Napolean.


I'm actually terrified for this game.....the terror is not because of the quality of the opponent's play. Gmen= Jedi mind tricks?

 

[The Brandon Five]

No because the Giants own the Patriots, are the better team, and will back that up in the SB. Go plan your victory party with Brady lets see how that works out.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hopefully

1 : in a hopeful manner
2 : it is hoped : I hope : we hope <hopefully the rain will end soon>

 

[Deus Irae]

No because the Giants own the Patriots, are the better team, and will back that up in the SB. Go plan your victory party with Brady lets see how that works out.

1.) 2 wins in 5 seasons is not owning a team

2.) Please give a full breakdown of how the Giants are better than the Patriots. Please use paragraph breaks while doing so.

3.) The "victory party" nonsense is as stupid as the "head of the snake" kerfuffle

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Who would have thought that Giants trolls are more annoying to deal with than Jets trolls.

 

[Ivan]

No because the Giants own the Patriots, are the better team, and will back that up in the SB. Go plan your victory party with Brady lets see how that works out.

So why did the Giants allow more points than they scored?



Place excuses here.................

 

[ivanvamp]

So why did the Giants allow more points than they scored?



Place excuses here.................

Inconsistency. They have a TON of talent. They are inconsistent. Over the course of a long season their inconsistencies will show. But in short stretches they can be tremendous.

 

[Ivan]

Inconsistency. They have a TON of talent. They are inconsistent. Over the course of a long season their inconsistencies will show. But in short stretches they can be tremendous.

Yep, and that is never the hallmark of a good team. Can the Giants play well enough to win, absolutely, will they??? who knows?

I have no problem with anyone saying the Giants can win this game, however those who expect them to win are basing it on nothing more than a hope the good Giants show up and play well Sunday, and in truth even that may not be enough because the Patriots are one of those teams that can hang big points on pretty much anyone if Brady goes off, and that may well happen on Sunday. In fact Im betting it will happen, and I rarely bet.

 

[supafly]

Right, and how many championships have you won since Spygate? Thats what I thought, each year since 2007 you guys choked in the playoffs. Only this year you have made it this far, because of the luck factor I described earlier.

Whatever dude, think whatever you want to think. It's pretty much pointless to try and talk anything intelligent or unbiased with you. Maybe you are just a weirdo on another teams' fanbase site looking for attention.

My guess is that you'll be banned within the next 6 hours anyway.

Either a team is rendered irrelevant or they aren't....either they are still a force to be reckoned with, or they pass the torch to someone else. I think we all know what the real answer is here. Winning 80% of the games since then and making the playoffs every year certainly does not define slipping back down to mediocracy in any intelligent fan's opinion.

2008---Missed the playoffs at 11-5 despite losing Brady. 52 of 53 teams prior who went 11-5 had made it.

2009 and 2010 seasons (2 seasons lost in playoffs at home)


If your sample size is 2 seasons, and one of those two yrs you went 14-2 with a #1 seed, then more power to you I guess.

You can only wish your team won with so much consistency.

 

[ivanvamp]

Yep, and that is never the hallmark of a good team. Can the Giants play well enough to win, absolutely, will they??? who knows?

I have no problem with anyone saying the Giants can win this game, however those who expect them to win are basing it on nothing more than a hope the good Giants show up and play well Sunday, and in truth even that may not be enough because the Patriots are one of those teams that can hang big points on pretty much anyone if Brady goes off, and that may well happen on Sunday. In fact Im betting it will happen, and I rarely bet.

Like I said, it's consistency, not ability or talent. They aren't good enough from a consistency standpoint to put up a big regular season record. But they *are* good enough, over short stretches, to be dominant.

And right now, unfortunately, they're in one of those dominant short stretches.

Now, the premise of this thread, which I started a few days ago now, is that I don't think the Giants are as good as their recent 5-game stretch seems to indicate. Hence "Are the Giants Overrated?" But I do believe that they certainly have the ability to handle New England and win the Super Bowl.

 

[Ivan]

Like I said, it's consistency, not ability or talent. They aren't good enough from a consistency standpoint to put up a big regular season record. But they *are* good enough, over short stretches, to be dominant.

And right now, unfortunately, they're in one of those dominant short stretches.

Now, the premise of this thread, which I started a few days ago now, is that I don't think the Giants are as good as their recent 5-game stretch seems to indicate. Hence "Are the Giants Overrated?" But I do believe that they certainly have the ability to handle New England and win the Super Bowl.

And I agreed and said the same, however the problem with being inconsistent is that you don't know what to expect, and just being hot doesn't mean they will stay that way. They have played well of late but that doesn't mean they will play well Sunday.