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Content Post another late night rant


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This has been a problem unfortunately and it’s like a no win situation for those in the middle who appreciate both. When Tom struggled a few times last year it was tough seeing people dumping on him . And when he succeeded then you gotta hear the ragging on bb. Fact is It will take a lot more than one season to truly evaluate what bb can do without Brady, especially a season like 2020.
Unfortunately, Team Tom has a lot more ammo than Team Bill. Maybe all Pats fans would be better off if they both had similar careers apart but they didn't.

I've never been a coaches guy. What that means is that if you give me a choice of the GOAT QB or the GOAT HC, I'm taking the QB every time.

As for Belichick needing more than a year, he had that already and it doesn't help his case. But it does help mine. I know from seeing Bill coach that he's the GOAT HC, but he hasn't done anywhere near as well without Brady, the GOAT QB.
 
Unfortunately, Team Tom has a lot more ammo than Team Bill. Maybe all Pats fans would be better off if they both had similar careers apart but they didn't.

I've never been a coaches guy. What that means is that if you give me a choice of the GOAT QB or the GOAT HC, I'm taking the QB every time.

As for Belichick needing more than a year, he had that already and it doesn't help his case. But it does help mine. I know from seeing Bill coach that he's the GOAT HC, but he hasn't done anywhere near as well without Brady, the GOAT QB.

I take the goat qb as well, but lets be reasonable with Bill. Of the 3 seasons here in ne without brady, 2 were full blown rebuilds, and one was 11-5.

Aside from that, he had His tenure in Cleveland which imo nothing in Cleveland from the 90s until very recent should be taken with any more than a grain of salt . Even then, he inherited another terrible situation and took them to the divisional round within a couple years. Then the move to Baltimore was announced and he was part of a sinking ship.

The next few years will be the true test for bb as he’s finally had a chance to build something without brady in a decent situation. If he continues to struggle, then you can say hes had a fair shake without brady.
 
Great QBs can still have great results no matter who is coaching them. Like I always say - Peyton Manning taking a subpar coach Caldwell to a Super Bowl in Indianapolis. Also aaron Rodgers winning one with another subpar coach McCarthy.

It’s much harder imo for great coaches to do the same without their great QB. What last year proved is Bill can’t wave a magic wand and make a bad roster and bad QB into a contending team. Lots of takes over the years that BB can win with anyone - probably from the same people who called Brady a system QB- but clearly BB cannot and that talk has been put to bed.

What great coaches can do is maximize what they have. Bill was able to coach a bad football team to 7 wins and arguably could have won a couple more. I’m glad he’s our coach, less so that he’s our GM but hopefully the last couple of drafts start to move the needle the other way.
 
Unfortunately, Team Tom has a lot more ammo than Team Bill. Maybe all Pats fans would be better off if they both had similar careers apart but they didn't.

I've never been a coaches guy. What that means is that if you give me a choice of the GOAT QB or the GOAT HC, I'm taking the QB every time.

As for Belichick needing more than a year, he had that already and it doesn't help his case. But it does help mine. I know from seeing Bill coach that he's the GOAT HC, but he hasn't done anywhere near as well without Brady, the GOAT QB.
I think it's dumb to be on either "team." I still found myself rooting for the Cowboys to beat Tom when he didn't have the ball, and smugly satisfied when Tom beat the Cowboys, "Adam n Leave" style, when the Patriots had the ball.*

*omg. I meant Bucs.


I think the reason we love him (other than the fact that he started here) is it's just never over while a Tom-Brady-led team is still on the field. He won't LET it be over. There were guys, a precious few, who were more accurate. There are many who average bigger numbers of yards and TDs - a handful every year. What Tom is is the phrase, "All he does is win."

That's something that everybody has sometimes, but only one guy has it at that level every time. So you can try to coach it into people, you can try to find that guy with that elusive assumption of victory combined with awareness of what it takes, every moment, to get there.... and so on and so forth... but you'll find pretty quickly that you're just looking for Bradyness.

For 20 years, Bradyness combined with Belichikness has been Patriotness, so we associate times of Bradyness with Patriotness and some of us get confused, believing we let the franchise go. We didn't. We let go a certain number of years of Brady. We have to assume that number to be finite, and in fact fairly small (sic).

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I like how Ken (and others) nailed the Is-what-it-is-ness of the dilemma. It was time for it to happen all the way around, for whatever reasons. I buy the "playing in your 40s while the team is broke sucks" explanation myself. Maybe with just a dash of ego - while they've both been good at tuning out the noise, for a competitor like Tom, it might be a nagging question: can you only do it with this Belichick character? But the main thing is, you had to pay Tom a non-insulting amount, and any additional amount would come out of your maneuvering room to give him weapons.

By the way, Bill did manage to have maneuvering room exactly when an insane downturn hit the NFL in the form of 2020 revenues, and had money to spend exactly when the cap went down 8% for the 2021 year, making each available cap dollar that much more significant. Screw the Wuhan virology lab, they're going to find a lab in the bowels of Gillette where that pony-tail guy from 12 Monkeys really worked and you mark my words, we'll lose two more first round picks because of it.

But I digress.

To the main point, media will look for drama. It is what we buy. What is the obstacle to the dreams of the protagonist? Or better yet, who? That's why you get "Brady vs. Prescott" takes. They never face each other, but to the average fan it might as well be Rocky vs. Ivan Drago. All the little side stories have that dramatic flavor too... because the real drama is boring usually to the average fan. Don't give them a tough 7-yard run as the signature play of a drive, they want a quick perfect strike downfield. Most plays, especially by those standards, nothing much happens, and there's an eternity between them. To me, the game is exciting when the lead is getting traded back and forth or when it's really close, and you are pulling for a team to succeed. By that standard, the team is the protagonist, not a coach or a QB.

But I think we've gotten a lot of fans over 20 years who don't understand that basic idea of football enjoyment... they get stuck at the storyline level, Brady vs. Manning, Brady vs. Brees, Brady vs. Belichick. The 60 minutes of broken-up, imperfect drama of competition is just too short-lived and imperfect for their tastes. I'm not saying all of any camp... I'm just saying they're going to be out there with a superstar "winning" personality on the field.

I mean, I do it too, to an extent. I am thrilled to tell Peyton Manning jokes, etc. But when you create nontroversies about whether a coach is better than a QB, come on man. (But if we're going to pretend that's a real question, the real answer isn't "I don't pay to see a coach coach." That's just the answer to why you like watching.)

Apples and oranges, and who gives a damn which is more important if you can get them into the bowl together.
 
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Bill's QB last year was obviously of his own making, so I won't excuse that. But when just looking at coach/QB combinations, I'll want to see how Bill does with a QB that's in the same category that Bruce Arians was as a coach prior to Brady. Arians is a blowhard, and I don't love him, but he had won Coach of the Year twice before. It's not like Brady went from Belichick to Adam Gase or Hue Jackson.

I think a good QB comp would be someone like Matthew Stafford or Phillip Rivers. Guys that have good regular season resumes, but never won a ring (partially through their own flaws). If Mac Jones can get to something around their level while Bill is still here, and he still doesn't win one, that closes the argument for me.
 
Pats have $18.5M in dead money this year. Bucs have $2.7M
Where are you seeing the Pats with 18.7 this year?

And yes, last year, they had a ton, that was the reset that was needed.

Tampa is stretching out a ton of dead money for several years post-Brady era. Again, you can build a team this way...on a roller-coaster.

BB doesn't. He manages the CAP to keep them competitive. Last year was the reset. They cleared the books and had the cash to take advantage of a down market to bring in a ton of talent.
 
Belichick had a game plan in the HOF and two SB rings before Tom Brady ever took a snap in high school. The 1990 NY Giants with a backup QB would never have made it past the dynasty 49ers and the K-Gun Bills, making their first of 4 straight SB appearances, without the man called Doom. Then, you add in 2001 coming out of nowhere with a 2nd year QB to beat a team most thought were the next NFL dynasty.

Anyone who thinks Bill Belichick still has to prove his greatness as a football coach without having Brady as his QB is being foolish. He proved his all-time coaching greatness 20 years ago.

I’m very happy Brady and Gronk won last year in Tampa. Brady chose a ready made contender to join and make a champion. But, Imagine if Bill had the same opportunity? Say he was given a 1 year sabbatical from the Pats to coach the Green Bay Packers last season. Do you think Brady and the Bucs would have beaten a Packer team coached by Bill to win the NFC championship? Me neither.
 
Bill's QB last year was obviously of his own making, so I won't excuse that. But when just looking at coach/QB combinations, I'll want to see how Bill does with a QB that's in the same category that Bruce Arians was as a coach prior to Brady. Arians is a blowhard, and I don't love him, but he had won Coach of the Year twice before. It's not like Brady went from Belichick to Adam Gase or Hue Jackson.

I think a good QB comp would be someone like Matthew Stafford or Phillip Rivers. Guys that have good regular season resumes, but never won a ring (partially through their own flaws). If Mac Jones can get to something around their level while Bill is still here, and he still doesn't win one, that closes the argument for me.
Actually I think Mac Jones right now is the perfect candidate to show that Bill has it and can win w/o Brady:

1. Bill won a SB 1st year that Brady played, a QB selected in 6th round. Pats were not even considered a playoff team back then and it followed a 5-11 year.
2. Bill selected Mac in 1st round, something he'd never done before. He also doesn't have to deal with a veteran QB controversy like w/ Drew.
3. By all accounts Mac is NFL ready, coming from Bama under coach Saban. PFF rated Mac the top QB in the preseason.
4. Bill spent an NFL record amount of $$ during FAcy to restock roster with veterans on both sides of the line. Team has more weapons than during Tom's first SB win.
5. Bill's put together what on paper looks like a top 5 D, which he had 1st year w/ Brady.

All of this ads up to an enormous amount of pressure on Bill to perform. Everyone has the Pats as a contender and even SB threats. There's really no excuses. Bill needs to at the very least make it to AFCCG, imo to temper the perception of TFB>BB.

It would be awesome if he could pull it off.
 
Where are you seeing the Pats with 18.7 this year?

And yes, last year, they had a ton, that was the reset that was needed.

Tampa is stretching out a ton of dead money for several years post-Brady era. Again, you can build a team this way...on a roller-coaster.

BB doesn't. He manages the CAP to keep them competitive. Last year was the reset. They cleared the books and had the cash to take advantage of a down market to bring in a ton of talent.
Not independently verified, lol.

SmartSelect_20210911-105430_Firefox.jpg

Tampa has been verify disciplined in limiting dead money which is why they had the room to structure some of the deals they made (not a cap guru at all, just what I've been reading).
 
Actually I think Mac Jones right now is the perfect candidate to show that Bill has it and can win w/o Brady:

1. Bill won a SB 1st year that Brady played, a QB selected in 6th round. Pats were not even considered a playoff team back then and it followed a 5-11 year.
2. Bill selected Mac in 1st round, something he'd never done before. He also doesn't have to deal with a veteran QB controversy like w/ Drew.
3. By all accounts Mac is NFL ready, coming from Bama under coach Saban. PFF rated Mac the top QB in the preseason.
4. Bill spent an NFL record amount of $$ during FAcy to restock roster with veterans on both sides of the line. Team has more weapons than during Tom's first SB win.
5. Bill's put together what on paper looks like a top 5 D, which he had 1st year w/ Brady.

All of this ads up to an enormous amount of pressure on Bill to perform. Everyone has the Pats as a contender and even SB threats. There's really no excuses. Bill needs to at the very least make it to AFCCG, imo to temper the perception of TFB>BB.

It would be awesome if he could pull it off.
Just need to get Gilmore back on the field. The longer he delays his return, the more I feel he’s played his last down here.
 
Actually I think Mac Jones right now is the perfect candidate to show that Bill has it and can win w/o Brady:

1. Bill won a SB 1st year that Brady played, a QB selected in 6th round. Pats were not even considered a playoff team back then and it followed a 5-11 year.
2. Bill selected Mac in 1st round, something he'd never done before. He also doesn't have to deal with a veteran QB controversy like w/ Drew.
3. By all accounts Mac is NFL ready, coming from Bama under coach Saban. PFF rated Mac the top QB in the preseason.
4. Bill spent an NFL record amount of $$ during FAcy to restock roster with veterans on both sides of the line. Team has more weapons than during Tom's first SB win.
5. Bill's put together what on paper looks like a top 5 D, which he had 1st year w/ Brady.

All of this ads up to an enormous amount of pressure on Bill to perform. Everyone has the Pats as a contender and even SB threats. There's really no excuses. Bill needs to at the very least make it to AFCCG, imo to temper the perception of TFB>BB.

It would be awesome if he could pull it off.

Oh for sure, if he pulls it off with Mac THIS year, it's a huge feather in his cap. No true rookie QB has ever won a Super Bowl (as the starter anyway... I'm sure there's a rookie who was on a Super Bowl roster), so to pull that off would be proof to me that both guys were truly special on this 20 year run (which I honestly believe anyway).

I'm just looking at last year and saying the dropoff from Brady to Newton was a lot more drastic than the dropoff from Belichick to Arians, so if I could design a scenario (for science) I would want to see Bill coach a comparable QB for a truer one year evaluation.
 
Oh for sure, if he pulls it off with Mac THIS year, it's a huge feather in his cap. No true rookie QB has ever won a Super Bowl (as the starter anyway... I'm sure there's a rookie who was on a Super Bowl roster), so to pull that off would be proof to me that both guys were truly special on this 20 year run (which I honestly believe anyway).

I'm just looking at last year and saying the dropoff from Brady to Newton was a lot more drastic than the dropoff from Belichick to Arians, so if I could design a scenario (for science) I would want to see Bill coach a comparable QB for a truer one year evaluation.
I'm not saying he has to win the SB or even make it. I do think that if he makes AFCCG then he's got a lot more weight behind this silly battle and probably wins COY.
 
I think as Brady has a couple more great years and maybe wins another with a new team, and BB maybe wins another with a new QB, we’ll look back in a few years and wonder how the two of them only won 6 together.
 
BB drafted Brady.
 
Not independently verified, lol.

View attachment 35563

Tampa has been verify disciplined in limiting dead money which is why they had the room to structure some of the deals they made (not a cap guru at all, just what I've been reading).
Going into camp with dead money and coming out of it with dead money are two different numbers, though, right? Retirements (Edelman and Chung), vet cuts (Newton), injury settlements, and trades will almost always add some, to every team.

Folk and Hoyer are on the team, yes? So that's not dead money.

And yes, Tampa was in a great position to take advantage, as I've been saying from the beginning. They were mired in mediocrity and worse for the last half decade, which gave them a ton of high-level draft classes. Their position allowed them to do this. Now that they hit gold, they decided (rightfully) to go for it.

Go look at the dead money they will have GOING INTO 2023, 24, 25. Look at the contracts - don't take my word for it. They've got tons of voidable years built in.

In 2023, Tom Brady counts $24 million against Tampa's cap (and that's not counting if he keeps playing, which would be a whole new extension - none of it is Salary).
In 2024, Tom Brady counts $8 million against Tampa's cap.
In 2025 Tom Brady counts $8 million against Tampa's cap.

Gronkowski, unsigned, counts $5 million against Tampa's cap next year, and $1.25m against the cap in 2023, 24, and 25.

Lavonte David, unsigned, counts $6.855 against Tampa's cap in 2023, $2.285 in 24, and 25.

Evan, even after the nest two HUGE $ years: two more years of voidable...Cameron Brate, 2 voidable years.

Suh, $6m next year, $1.25 in 23, 24, and 25.

Just go to Sportrac and go through the two teams. Look for the "orange" years tacked on. The Patriots RARELY do this. Brady was one. McCourty is 2.25 against the CAP next year. They didn't do it with Hightower or Mason. The new acquisitions? No, not with Judon, Henry, Smith, Agholor or any of the other guys they brought in this year. When they're off the team (unless cut, trade, injury), they're off the books for CAP. purposes.

Was Revis? I'm not sure if that weird deal they had technically was a "voidable year," but it seemed the same. Tampa used this push-it-forward technique on steroids this year.

That's not a criticism - I would probably have done the same thing in their current position - but it's a formula for a roller-coaster ride, betting the highs are worth the dips and climbs. I mean, BB could build a Superteam in his last year, I guess, and saddle his successor, and us fans, with CAP problems pushed for years forward.
 
we’ll look back in a few years and wonder how the two of them only won 6 together.
We already talk about that. They should’ve won about 6 in the first 10 years together. While they could’ve won less in the last 20 years, the difference was the Pats were a consistent machine, while most of those other teams that gave them trouble or lost to were flukes.

There’s a long list you can make of the years they should’ve won.
 


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