Content Post another late night rant

[amfootball]

By all accounts, San Fran was his first choice.

Can you imagine being the Niners right now? Saying no to Brady and sticking with Jimmy only to see him get injured again and then forking over all those picks for Trey Lance who is not going to start Sunday. I mean, just horrible. The only team feeling worse than them I would imagine would be the Saints.

 

[Pats2000]

The Bucs are not in cap trouble. They have a slew of young talent on rookie contracts because Licht has been hitting on his drafts since 2015. The Bucs have not just spent money like some wild team clawing after another trophy. They got most of their FAs on good deals this off-season because of the depressed cap. They have Brady on an insanely great deal given his level of play/production. They are paying both Gronk and AB peanuts.

They are more of a model of how you can build an insanely competitive team through the draft and then add quality FAs for cheap. Licht should be in the running for GM of the year if they make it back to the Bowl.

It's much easier to do when you pick top 10 or 15 in the draft every year since 2015

 

[amfootball]

It's much easier to do when you pick top 10 or 15 in the draft every year since 2015

Not really. You still have to make the picks and hit them in each round. How many second round picks has Bill blown on DBs? And 1st round picks on Easely, Sony, Harry, etc.

 

[Pats2000]

Not really. You still have to make the picks and hit them in each round. How many second round picks has Bill blown on DBs? And 1st round picks on Easely, Sony, Harry, etc.

Granted BB has missed, but he's also picked at the bottom of the draft in every round for 2 decades, not to mention BS stolen picks through the years. Typically he looked for value picks and it paid off a fair amount. Like Gronk, who fell due to injury history.

Has he been perfect? No. Has he missed, for sure, but what other team had picked the bottom of the draft in every round 20 years in a row and been able to put together a competitive team all but one of those 20 years

 

[RobertWeathers]

Granted BB has missed, but he's also picked at the bottom of the draft in every round for 2 decades, not to mention BS stolen picks through the years. Typically he looked for value picks and it paid off a fair amount. Like Gronk, who fell due to injury history.

Has he been perfect? No. Has he missed, for sure, but what other team had picked the bottom of the draft in every round 20 years in a row and been able to put together a competitive team all but one of those 20 years

60% of all All-Pros are 1st round picks.

Of those 1st rd picks...

Picks 1-10 - 49% become All-Pros at least once
Picks 11-21- 32% become APs at least once
Picks 22-32- 24% become APs at least once

To expect BB can land All-Pros every year picking 22 or below is absurd.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

What I DON'T understand is why you can't be happy for Tom, and still recognize the brilliance Bill's coaching.

This has been a problem unfortunately and it’s like a no win situation for those in the middle who appreciate both. When Tom struggled a few times last year it was tough seeing people dumping on him . And when he succeeded then you gotta hear the ragging on bb. Fact is It will take a lot more than one season to truly evaluate what bb can do without Brady, especially a season like 2020.

 

[Steve102]

@RobertWeathers @KontradictioN

Bros, I don't get the hate for BB here in this thread or in this forum. I swear to God part of it is his demeanor with the media. He is a sour **** to the media. So what? They had a 20 year run! Name one other franchise that has done that. Name all of them, if you want, I'll wait. I just don't get it.

I want a shiny new WR.
We can't rush the passer like other teams!
Bill is a chitty GM.
Bill ran Brady out of town.
Bill bamboozled Cam. (that's rich, BTW)

Who the hell else do you want for your coach?

Edit: The fact that I can't say sourp*ss is hysterical.

 

[Kontradiction]

@RobertWeathers @KontradictioN

Bros, I don't get the hate for BB here in this thread or in this forum. I swear to God part of it is his demeanor with the media. He is a sour **** to the media. So what? They had a 20 year run! Name one other franchise that has done that. Name all of them, if you want, I'll wait. I just don't get it.

I want a shiny new WR.
We can't rush the passer like other teams!
Bill is a chitty GM.
Bill ran Brady out of town.
Bill bamboozled Cam. (that's rich, BTW)

Who the hell else do you want for your coach?

Edit: The fact that I can't say sourp*ss is hysterical.

 

[Steve102]

View attachment 35519

I get that people are crabby in these "trying times" but I just don't get it.

 

[rochrist]

The fundamental problem with those two is they do not believe/refuse to acknowledge the salary cap.

Well, Felger anyway. The last time Maz actually had a thought about anything was 1974. He's only there to parrot whatever position Felger takes. 'You're absolutely right Mike, you're absolutely right!'

 

[patfanken]

Thread should stop right here.

Turn off the ****ing radio @patfanken. You, by now, should have realized that their whole schtick is to anger people like you. It has never and will never have anything to do with actual football discussion.

Oh I know it's schtick, but its schtick that some people listen to and believe. If you don't point out the error when someone creates "fake news", then you risk the "shtick" becoming someone's reality.

BTW- that's the thing I LIKE about Felger. Unlike so many of his ilk, at least he's up front about this being schtick and that he's using it to push button and draw listeners and callers to his show. Something he does quite well.

 

[203Pat]

All a team accomplishes by "maneuvering" and moving money around is defer cap charges to future years.

The NEP have been the most disciplined football team in that regard. That's how you sustain a dynasty and not become a "one and done".

Did you want BB to do it another way these last 20 years?


They didn't pay Thuney. What does that tell you. They paid players they needed to improve. WR, LB, TE.

Again you think Tom wanted money. Tom wanted much more than that and was going to pout in 2020. Not fair to him or the team.

In 2018 the NEP fielded 16 of 22 starters who where drafted/UFAs. That is an incredible number. These were players who were cornerstones of Dynasty v2. To say BB can't draft or find talent to build around a franchise QB is complete ********.

How did BB backfill cornerstone players by picking in the bottom 1/2 of rounds every year? Answer is he does it through FA which requires significant cash payouts and cap space and gets lucky with UFAs (See JC Jackson, Malcolm, etc) and you still need to spend 10-12% of your cap on Tom.

The maneuvering is exactly what I was saying. Bill has been doing it for 20 years why not do it another 3 or 4 with Brady then rebuild when Brady retires? I would have been fine to kept maneuvering and kicking the can down the road to keep Tom here.

They didn't pay Thuney because they knew he would make huge money. I didn't want them to pay Thuney for 2020 it just seemed like we cost ourselves a third round comp pick in 2020 to pay a guard $15 mill on a 7-9 team. I loved him but guard is not a position we have the luxury of investing a bunch of money into. My point was we could have paid Brady in spite of what some people claim. It wasn't really about money for Brady it was about the commitment to him for more than one lame duck year. That being said he still would need to actually get paid something.

Out of all those starters in 2018 how many were drafted within 3 years of that season? I would say 5. Sony, Andrews (UDFA), Thuney, Mason, and Jon Jones (UDFA)? My point with the fall off in Bill's roster building is after that home run stretch of drafting he started to taper off. He hit on some of the offensive lineman but started missing on a lot of other picks. You start missing on Aaron Dobson and then you have to sign a veteran like Lafell. When you miss on Geneo Grissom you have to trade for (then pay) a Van Noy. When you miss on Harry you get desperate and trade for Sanu and sign a nutcase like AB. There are probably another handful of examples but when you start missing on guys in the first few rounds of the draft you need to sign guys who may more money and eat up more cap space. The bad drafts snowballed and some of the free agents and trades (Sanu, AB, Michael Bennet) were complete disasters and it culminates in what we saw in 2020.

 

[203Pat]

60% of all All-Pros are 1st round picks.

Of those 1st rd picks...

Picks 1-10 - 49% become All-Pros at least once
Picks 11-21- 32% become APs at least once
Picks 22-32- 24% become APs at least once

To expect BB can land All-Pros every year picking 22 or below is absurd.

I don't know why people act like talent dries up at pick 20.

Lamar Jackson, George Kittle, Travis Kelce, Michael Thomas, DeAndre Hopkins, Jason Kelce, Ryan Ramczyk, Chandler Jones, TJ Watt, Cameron Jordan, Danielle Hunter, Cameron Heyward, Bobby Wagner, Demario Davis, Eric Kendricks, Tredavious White, Tyrann Mathieu.

All 2019 first team all-pros drafted late round one or later.

 

[Pats2000]

I don't know why people act like talent dries up at pick 20.

Lamar Jackson, George Kittle, Travis Kelce, Michael Thomas, DeAndre Hopkins, Jason Kelce, Ryan Ramczyk, Chandler Jones, TJ Watt, Cameron Jordan, Danielle Hunter, Cameron Heyward, Bobby Wagner, Demario Davis, Eric Kendricks, Tredavious White, Tyrann Mathieu.

All 2019 first team all-pros drafted late round one or later.

16 players out of thousands. May the odds be in your favor

 

[RobertWeathers]

The maneuvering is exactly what I was saying. Bill has been doing it for 20 years why not do it another 3 or 4 with Brady then rebuild when Brady retires? I would have been fine to kept maneuvering and kicking the can down the road to keep Tom here.

Let's play out the maneuvering you refer to which the NEP have never done at the scale you are outlining they should have done for Tom.

He had a dead money hit in 2020 of $13m in 2020. He counted $25m vs the cap in 2020 for TB. If the NEP gave him the same deal he would have had a $38m cap hit in 2020 and before his extension was counting $28m in 2021. TB just extended him which lowered the 2021 hit to $10.5m but pushed the dead money hit to $50m with 3 void years.

Sorry. It makes sense for Tampa. They were ready.

That scenario does not make sense for the NEP as they were rebuilding and for a player who didn't want to be here anymore it didn't make sense. I don't believe for a second Tom wanted to be part of a rebuild. Not one bit. Hes full of it if he says otherwise.

They didn't pay Thuney because they knew he would make huge money. I didn't want them to pay Thuney for 2020 it just seemed like we cost ourselves a third round comp pick in 2020 to pay a guard $15 mill on a 7-9 team. I loved him but guard is not a position we have the luxury of investing a bunch of money into. My point was we could have paid Brady in spite of what some people claim. It wasn't really about money for Brady it was about the commitment to him for more than one lame duck year. That being said he still would need to actually get paid something.

If it wasn't about the money with Tom why negotiate?

Out of all those starters in 2018 how many were drafted within 3 years of that season? I would say 5. Sony, Andrews (UDFA), Thuney, Mason, and Jon Jones (UDFA)? My point with the fall off in Bill's roster building is after that home run stretch of drafting he started to taper off. He hit on some of the offensive lineman but started missing on a lot of other picks. You start missing on Aaron Dobson and then you have to sign a veteran like Lafell. When you miss on Geneo Grissom you have to trade for (then pay) a Van Noy. When you miss on Harry you get desperate and trade for Sanu and sign a nutcase like AB. There are probably another handful of examples but when you start missing on guys in the first few rounds of the draft you need to sign guys who may more money and eat up more cap space. The bad drafts snowballed and some of the free agents and trades (Sanu, AB, Michael Bennet) were complete disasters and it culminates in what we saw in 2020.

Who cares when they were drafted? A big part of drafting good players is keeping them after their rookie deals and sometimes you have to pay them. You can't win 3 Super Bowls in 5 years by playing a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players. Can't have it both ways and there is no one better in NFL history at deciding who to pay, trade or cut than BB. No one. The Super Bowls prove it.

What you and Kraft don't get it is the actual importance of draft picks as it relates to the salary cap. Is missing on picks bad? Or course. It's hurts. All GMs miss on picks. Some years are good. Some not so good. The key is to make up for it with FAs, economical vets and UFAs.

Are you complaining about the LaFell and KVN acquisitions? Two key, reasonably priced players on Super Bowl teams? Just wow.

Again, BB is the best at that. I'm sure you know by round how long the NFL career is for each player chosen in each round. It's small. Less than 30% of all NFL players get a 2nd contract with their original team. Think about that. It's a transient profession. People act like BB has been ****ing up drafts for the last 5 years and that is the reason for 7-9. Wrong.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't know why people act like talent dries up at pick 20.

Lamar Jackson, George Kittle, Travis Kelce, Michael Thomas, DeAndre Hopkins, Jason Kelce, Ryan Ramczyk, Chandler Jones, TJ Watt, Cameron Jordan, Danielle Hunter, Cameron Heyward, Bobby Wagner, Demario Davis, Eric Kendricks, Tredavious White, Tyrann Mathieu.

All 2019 first team all-pros drafted late round one or later.

It doesn't dry up but it's a fact that the higher you pick in a draft, the higher the likelihood of picking a more talented player exists as opposed to picking at the bottom of a round.

If you pick at the bottom of rounds every year, over time your chances of grabbing All-Pro talent decrease exponentially.

 

[50-yard-line]

I don't know why people act like talent dries up at pick 20.

Lamar Jackson, George Kittle, Travis Kelce, Michael Thomas, DeAndre Hopkins, Jason Kelce, Ryan Ramczyk, Chandler Jones, TJ Watt, Cameron Jordan, Danielle Hunter, Cameron Heyward, Bobby Wagner, Demario Davis, Eric Kendricks, Tredavious White, Tyrann Mathieu.

All 2019 first team all-pros drafted late round one or later.

You don't get a Vita Vea in the 20's. (I want that Davis kid from Georgia, as an aside)

A Devin White is RARE after top 15.

A Mike Evans is hard to find after the first half of the first round.

You don't get a Tristan Wirfs past #20.

Go look at where those guys were drafted - Pats haven't had a pick that high since Mayo.

Now throw in Brady, Antonio Brown, and Gronk...see where I'm going with this? Tampa was in great position to turn it all around, and they did. And to their credit, they've gone for it - but man, go look at the contracts on that team - they'll be paying Suh for FOUR YEARS after next on his current 1-year deal. Evans got all his money pushed to the back end, so they're paying him almost 42 million over the next 2, AND he has voidable years, as does Brady, as does half that team.

That's a risk you assume in playing it this way. And consider, even with bringing back all 22, a couple of injuries could derail that team, and even without those injuries, a bounce here or a bounce there could stop them from repeating.

So say they don't win the SB this year or next. Brady retires (and let me state unequivocally that they were in the best position I've ever seen for a team to do this, especially when Tom Freaking Brady fell into their laps, and with Gronk and AB beside him...neither of whom were ever playing here again)...Gronk retires...they're paying people in 2023, 2024, 2025 in $$ that count against their cap. You can build teams that way - the Saints come to mind.|

BB does not build his teams that way. Even with the huge expenditures this year, reloading the team, the Pats are not in CAP trouble for the foreseeable future.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

The 5 Brady boys patting each other on the back on a night the team they proclaimed unstoppable, almost lost to the mighty 19th ranked Dallas Cowboys at home.

Meh Brady led teams starting slow is nothing new

 

[patfanken]

Forget all that "know" stuff. Watching both the Bucs and Boys last night, I don't know how our secondary is going to stop either offense.

Not for nothing, but the Pats secondary WITHOUT Gilmore is better than either the Buc's or the Cowboys,

 

[patfanken]

Ahh yes the board's resident dunce clearly didn't watch the game last night. It was clearly Brady's fault Ronald Jones coughed up the ball inside Tampa's territory, or when "Lombardi Lenny" decided to flip a dump off pass into the air for a pick, or when Godwin decided to take the final nail out of the coffin and hurl it across the room as he fumbled the ball at the goal line.

Do you ever get tired of embarrassing yourself?

Clearly it was a good thing that the Cowboys didn't make any mistakes, like yanking a 31 yd FG, or having a pass go thru you receiver's hands and turn into a pick that wound up being a 4 yd drive, or committing 3 key penalties on a drive that should have ended with a game winning FG and no time for Brady at the end.

One way narratives are the ammunition of the lazy, or the insincere.