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NFL News Another Damning Concussion Study (I wish this was a joke)

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RobertWeathers

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Most of us who have seen the various documentaries and have been keeping up with the research know this already. 1st time I've actually seen a study released.

The more hits to the head an amateur football player takes, the greater the risk that he will be depressed, have difficulty making decisions or develop other forms of cognitive impairment as an adult, a preliminary study suggests.

The study by Boston University researchers published in the Journal of Neurotrauma on Thursday is the first of its kind to look at the connection between the cumulative number of impacts sustained from youth football through college and later-in-life mental difficulties, according to Dr. Robert Stern, one of the co-authors.....

The study looked at 93 former amateur football players and, based on their positions and years of experience, calculated how many head hits they likely sustained over their careers. It found that — once a threshold is reached — the risk of later-life cognitive, mood and behavioral impairment increases as the hit count increases.

"Measuring head impact exposure is very difficult," said Yorghos Tripodis, another co-author. "We don't have helmet accelerometers on everybody so we can go back and say, 'How many hits did you have over your lifetime?'"

The study focused on subconcussive blows and not just the ones that are forceful enough to cause concussions. Stern said the focus on concussions has been beneficial, because it has led youth and professional leagues to develop return to play guidelines and other gains in concussion management.

A preliminary study by Boston University researchers shows a link between the number of hits a player takes in youth, high school and college football and the development of cognitive difficulties as an adult
 
The idea that subconcussive blows contribute to reaching the threshold for permanent cognitive and emotional damage is very concerning. Accelerometers are short money. They should be required on all school and NCAA level football helmets as well as sharing the data collected for each individual wearing one.
 
The idea that subconcussive blows contribute to reaching the threshold for permanent cognitive and emotional damage is very concerning. Accelerometers are short money. They should be required on all school and NCAA level football helmets as well as sharing the data collected for each individual wearing one.

Great idea. Imagine the longitudinal data after 50 years, it would be a treasure-trove. Useful for comparing helmet quality too.
 
Great idea. Imagine the longitudinal data after 50 years, it would be a treasure-trove. Useful for comparing helmet quality too.
With a big enough sample size and assuming that brain imaging technology will increase rapidly, data collected after just 10 years could revolutionize our understanding of it. It would be neither expensive nor difficult to implement.
 
What are the possible outcomes of having accelerometer based data?

I believe the most likely outcome will be that the contact itself is the problem and that you can't helmet your way out of it.

I'm privy to the development of accelerometers in boxing gloves as a means of scoring, the complications have prevented it from even getting close make it accurate enough for scoring. For effectiveness to correlate to a medical result is still pretty far off.

The reality is that the ability to post-diagnose is still going to outpace the ability to produce a result that will aid in prevention

How many light blows to your own forehead with the palm of your hand does it take until you start getting dizzy? The bottom line is likely that people should not hit each other that hard
 
What are the possible outcomes of having accelerometer based data?

u r not scientist, eh?

lots 'n' lots 'n' lots, many of which are hard to predict right now.
 
I'm almost tired of all these concussion studies. Honestly. I think at this point we know what the concussions do and the prevalence of them.

The question now is: What do we do? Outside of rules that will water down the sport even more, and the best of the best helmets and pads?

Easy enough. For pros a waiver. You make millions, (and make a post season league paid bonus for the part time players aka special teamers who sign for cheap money usually), so the waiver shouldn't be a big deal. If you love the sport, you sign the waiver.

For youth sports I'm not sure. Part of me thinks people need to make it as safe as possible and let things go. You only live once and I'm not walking around people who are complete vegetables because they played youth ball. That's with even less focus (none really) on CTE and such.

In the end sporting is about risk. That's part of the thrill of playing it and for those of us that watch it. I mean think about it. Auto racing fans (of every form) over the years have actually seen people die. Numerous times. It's all a risk.
 
u r not scientist, eh?

lots 'n' lots 'n' lots, many of which are hard to predict right now.
Not terribly convincing in the context of football. Right now I'm with @IllegalContact that science tells us getting hit in the head is not good, and that more is worse, harder is worse, and younger is worse. CTE is likely the tip of the iceberg that includes ALS, Alzheimer's and other neurodegenerative conditions, as well as less severe symptoms such as depression and other mood disorders. No rules or equipment can eliminate head trauma, which will be a part of the game as long as there is a game.
 
Not terribly convincing in the context of football. Right now I'm with @IllegalContact that science tells us getting hit in the head is not good, and that more is worse, harder is worse, and younger is worse. CTE is likely the tip of the iceberg that includes ALS, Alzheimer's and other neurodegenerative conditions, as well as less severe symptoms such as depression and other mood disorders. No rules or equipment can eliminate head trauma, which will be a part of the game as long as there is a game.
Sure, but with data, you could find out the severity of hit that adds to the cumulative effect. When you understand that, you can find out what sports and work activities that cause damage, and what equipment is needed to mitigate it enough to make the activity truly safe, if possible. If they're not gonna stop playing, we might as well start getting data about it.
 
Sure, but with data, you could find out the severity of hit that adds to the cumulative effect. When you understand that, you can find out what sports and work activities that cause damage, and what equipment is needed to mitigate it enough to make the activity truly safe, if possible. If they're not gonna stop playing, we might as well start getting data about it.
Fully agree and in favor of getting data, but mostly to help understand the risk because I am skeptical that much can be done to mitigate it.
 
Fully agree and in favor of getting data, but mostly to help understand the risk because I am skeptical that much can be done to mitigate it.
Given current technology I'm pretty sure they're be a significant number of sports that we couldn't make completely safe. That said, once that threshold is discovered, there will likely be a significant number of sports/work activities where a combination of proper equipment, rules and neck strength would make them safe. That number would increase as technology, materials and medicine advance.
 
u r not scientist, eh?

lots 'n' lots 'n' lots, many of which are hard to predict right now.

Actually a couple of engineering degrees probably says that I am, but don't let that stop you

In fact, I've spent the last 6-7 years working with MEMS ..... That's micro-electro-mechanical systems to you you know, accelerometers, gyros, microphones ..... Would you like to know how they work? There's a couple of different types of methods when it comes to accelorometers.....I've also been working with haptics .... Such as gesture sensoring in hand held devices

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that there's only one thing that's going to make a substantial reduction in concussions in football or any other contact sports
 
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Not terribly convincing in the context of football. Right now I'm with @IllegalContact that science tells us getting hit in the head is not good, and that more is worse, harder is worse, and younger is worse. CTE is likely the tip of the iceberg that includes ALS, Alzheimer's and other neurodegenerative conditions, as well as less severe symptoms such as depression and other mood disorders. No rules or equipment can eliminate head trauma, which will be a part of the game as long as there is a game.

My daughter got a concussion from getting hit in the head with a pillow in a pillow fight

But she's never gotten a concussion in 4-5 years of hockey and rugby......go figure

The cold hard of it is that when it comes to contact sports, concussions are here to stay
 
My daughter got a concussion from getting hit in the head with a pillow in a pillow fight

But she's never gotten a concussion in 4-5 years of hockey and rugby......go figure

The cold hard of it is that when it comes to contact sports, concussions are here to stay

What was in the pillows, frying pans?
 
Actually a couple of engineering degrees probably says that I am, but don't let that stop you

In fact, I've spent the last 6-7 years working with MEMS ..... That's micro-electro-mechanical systems to you you know, accelerometers, gyros, microphones ..... Would you like to know how they work? There's a couple of different types of methods when it comes to accelorometers.....I've also been working with haptics .... Such as gesture sensoring in hand held devices

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that there's only one thing that's going to make a substantial reduction in concussions in football or any other contact sports

It sounds like you are doing some interesting work! And, if you are working with accelerometers it sounds like you have some experience in the subject at hand.

I agree that no helmut technology will eliminate concussions. However, it is possible that there could be improvements in helmut technology with scientific testing, here is an article from my place on the subject: The UAB Mix - Smash-mouth football in the lab points the way to better helmets on the field

I've talked to these guys, and although having accelerometers in the helmut could conceivably provide important data trends with a large enough data set, the problem seems to be that there isn't really a one-to-one correlation between acceleration and concussion, sometimes fairly large accelerations don't seem to cause concussions and sometimes lower accelerations do (like with your daughter's pillow fight). .....However, this isn't really my area of research expertise, so what I say probably should be taken with a grain of salt ....probably a good general rule to follow for anything I say now that I think of it.
 
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What was in the pillows, frying pans?
I was at a kid's birthday a few weeks ago, and I saw a four-year-old who had three fresh staples in his head from a pillow fight.
 
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