And Surely We Need To Be Better Than 6th In Points Scored To Be Competitive

[StanleyGrogan]

Where's your link that they were 1st in RZ since week3? No way this is true. Team started 2-4 and finished 1-4. It wasn't a good offense.

Yes! Everybody knows that the middle 7 games of an NFL season don't count. Our true record is 3-8.( Even though we only lost 7 games - work that one out)

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yes! Everybody knows that the middle 7 games of an NFL season don't count. Out true record is 3-8.

He's claiming in aggregate it was the best RZ offense in the league since week3. No way this is true.

 

[StanleyGrogan]

He's claiming in aggregate it was the best RZ offense in the league since week3. No way this is true.

So hes wrong. So what. Nearly everything you type is wrong. You should understand.

 

[Ring 6]

Where's your link that they were 1st in RZ since week3? No way this is true. Team started 2-4 and finished 1-4. It wasn't a good offense.

It’s a fact, go look it up if you want.
The offense was 6th in points and 2nd in % of possessions scored on. That’s a good offense.

 

[Ring 6]

He's claiming in aggregate it was the best RZ offense in the league since week3. No way this is true.

It’s a fact.

 

[Ring 6]

So hes wrong. So what. Nearly everything you type is wrong. You should understand.

It’s not wrong at all.

 

[borg]

They aren't last in the playoffs. They scored more points than either the Steelers (one of their TDs was a fumble recovery on defense), Eagles, or Cardinals and the same amount as the Cowboys. Not to say they were good because they clearly weren't, but your point wasn't accurate.

I shoved "D" stats into this "O" thread which is unforgiveable
As punishment, I won't boo Tompa Carpetbagger until after the National Anthem

 

[ivanvamp]

Were you just posting to schmooze, or were you trying to




?

ARGUE English Definition and Meaning | Lexico.com

Just batting stuff around with fellow Pats fans.

Foreign concept for you?

 

[StanleyGrogan]

It’s not wrong at all.

Ok I will take your word for it. I guess I was just articulating my own concession that reading Fluties posts is not a good idea.

 

[ivanvamp]

It’s not wrong at all.

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Red Zone Scoring Percentage (TD only) | TeamRankings.com

NFL Football red zone scoring percentage (td only), by team.

www.teamrankings.com

Red Zone offense 2021

*Overall, the Pats ranked #8, with a TD success rate of 63.08%
*In their last 3 games, the Pats ranked #2, with a TD success rate of 91.67%
*Here's where they were ranked after each week:
- Week 1: #27 (25.00%)
- Week 2: #32 (28.57%)
- Week 3: #32 (25.00%)
- Week 4: #31 (36.36%)
- Week 5: #31 (37.50%)
- Week 6: #30 (44.44%)
- Week 7: #21 (58.33%)
- Week 8: #28 (53.57%)
- Week 9: #23 (58.84%)
- Week 10: #18 (59.46%)
- Week 11: #18 (57.50%)
- Week 12: #24 (55.56%)
- Week 13: #26 (54.35%)
- Week 14: #26 (54.35%)
- Week 15: #24 (54.00%)
- Week 16: #22 (56.60%)
- Week 17: #13 (61.02%)
- Week 18: #11 (61.90%)
- Week 19: #8 (63.08%) - obviously this includes the playoffs

So they hung around in the 20s and 30s for most of the season, with a brief foray into the high teens. But the last three weeks (including playoffs), they went nuts in the red zone, and shot up the rankings.

Here's what it looked like from weeks 16-19...

Week 16 - vs. Buf: 3 RZ, 3 TD
Week 17 - vs. Jax: 7 RZ, 7 TD
Week 18 - at Mia: 4 RZ, 3 TD, 1 FG
Week 19 - at Buf: 2 RZ, 2 TD

So in the last four games, including the playoff game, the Pats had 16 red zone opportunities and scored 15 touchdowns with 1 FG added in. 16-16 in terms of scoring, 15-16 in terms of touchdowns. That really skewed their overall season numbers. On the whole, they were a middling red zone team until the end of the year. So yes, because of those last few weeks, their total season numbers look very good, but during the course of the season, they weren't really that great in the red zone.

I am optimistic moving forward though, because they did seem to figure something out with respect to red zone offense. And not just against the Jags. They were 8-9 against Buffalo and Miami, and scored on all 9 trips into the red zone. So that's really good.

 

[Ring 6]

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Red Zone Scoring Percentage (TD only) | TeamRankings.com

NFL Football red zone scoring percentage (td only), by team.

www.teamrankings.com

Red Zone offense 2021

*Overall, the Pats ranked #8, with a TD success rate of 63.08%
*In their last 3 games, the Pats ranked #2, with a TD success rate of 91.67%
*Here's where they were ranked after each week:
- Week 1: #27 (25.00%)
- Week 2: #32 (28.57%)
- Week 3: #32 (25.00%)
- Week 4: #31 (36.36%)
- Week 5: #31 (37.50%)
- Week 6: #30 (44.44%)
- Week 7: #21 (58.33%)
- Week 8: #28 (53.57%)
- Week 9: #23 (58.84%)
- Week 10: #18 (59.46%)
- Week 11: #18 (57.50%)
- Week 12: #24 (55.56%)
- Week 13: #26 (54.35%)
- Week 14: #26 (54.35%)
- Week 15: #24 (54.00%)
- Week 16: #22 (56.60%)
- Week 17: #13 (61.02%)
- Week 18: #11 (61.90%)
- Week 19: #8 (63.08%) - obviously this includes the playoffs

So they hung around in the 20s and 30s for most of the season, with a brief foray into the high teens. But the last three weeks (including playoffs), they went nuts in the red zone, and shot up the rankings.

Here's what it looked like from weeks 16-19...

Week 16 - vs. Buf: 3 RZ, 3 TD
Week 17 - vs. Jax: 7 RZ, 7 TD
Week 18 - at Mia: 4 RZ, 3 TD, 1 FG
Week 19 - at Buf: 2 RZ, 2 TD

So in the last four games, including the playoff game, the Pats had 16 red zone opportunities and scored 15 touchdowns with 1 FG added in. 16-16 in terms of scoring, 15-16 in terms of touchdowns. That really skewed their overall season numbers. On the whole, they were a middling red zone team until the end of the year. So yes, because of those last few weeks, their total season numbers look very good, but during the course of the season, they weren't really that great in the red zone.

I am optimistic moving forward though, because they did seem to figure something out with respect to red zone offense. And not just against the Jags. They were 8-9 against Buffalo and Miami, and scored on all 9 trips into the red zone. So that's really good.

I am saying AFTER week 3 they were #1. Take away weeks 1-3 and they were something like 68%. Best in the NFL. Your chart shows year to date, which of course makes the % rise throughout the season as the 2/8 start is less impactful in the totals

 

[ivanvamp]

I am saying AFTER week 3 they were #1. Take away weeks 1-3 and they were something like 68%. Best in the NFL. Your chart shows year to date, which of course makes the % rise throughout the season as the 2/8 start is less impactful in the totals

I got what you were saying. And I gave you the week-by-week progression. You can see that they started out horribly (#32 in the NFL after three weeks), improved some, and spent the vast majority of the season in the mid-20s. Then the last few weeks of the year they went bonkers in the red zone - not just efficiency, but number of RZ opportunities. And those last few weeks vaulted their season RZ stats into the top 10. Clearly they weren't a top RZ team for most of the season - from weeks 4-16 they hovered in the 20s. So for most of the season they were a below average RZ team. The last three weeks altered their entire season's RZ stats.

It's like if a batter was a .250 hitter for months on end, and then the last three weeks of the season hit like .800, making his final batting average above .300, what would we really say about his season? Would it be true that by season's end he was a top hitter? Yes. Would it be true that he was the best hitter after the first month of the year? Possibly true yes. But honestly, we would know that that data was skewed by a crazy insanely good few weeks at the end of the year, and that for the vast majority of the season, he wasn't a top hitter.

In other words, those last few weeks for the Patriots make the data look better than the team actually performed in the RZ for the vast bulk of the season.

 

[venecol]

After the bye, when the Colts announced "we're going to force Mac to beat us," we all laughed. Then the Bills did the same thing, telling everyone they were forcing Mac to beat them. Phins played the same way and Bills repeated it last week.

Clearly, there was enough film on the O to allow these teams to limit Pats to 19.75 ppg (7.5 less than avg.), which all but guaranteed loses (w/ falling behind, penalties, etc.).

Either: 1. McD wasn't creative enough to make adjustments to the way these teams game planned; or 2. Mac was too limited in his ability to counter these Ds; or 3. both.

In those last 4 losses Mac's stats: 57.9% compl., 5 TD/ 7 INT, 41.7 QBR.

When you sprinkle the Jags game in between, it showed a microcosm of what the team was: great at beating up bad or depleated teams but not good enough to beat better / playoff worthy teams.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

After the bye, when the Colts announced "we're going to force Mac to beat us," we all laughed. Then the Bills did the same thing, telling everyone they were forcing Mac to beat them. Phins played the same way and Bills repeated it last week.

Clearly, there was enough film on the O to allow these teams to limit Pats to 19.75 ppg (7.5 less than avg.), which all but guaranteed loses (w/ falling behind, penalties, etc.).

Either: 1. McD wasn't creative enough to make adjustments to the way these teams game planned; or 2. Mac was too limited in his ability to counter these Ds; or 3. both.

In those last 4 losses Mac's stats: 57.9% compl., 5 TD/ 7 INT, 41.7 QBR.

When you sprinkle the Jags game in between, it showed a microcosm of what the team was: great at beating up bad or depleated teams but not good enough to beat better / playoff worthy teams.

Great post. You're going to have clowns deny Mac slowed down the last month. Stale, lazy, predictable play calling.

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Red Zone Scoring Percentage (TD only) | TeamRankings.com

NFL Football red zone scoring percentage (td only), by team.

www.teamrankings.com

Red Zone offense 2021

*Overall, the Pats ranked #8, with a TD success rate of 63.08%
*In their last 3 games, the Pats ranked #2, with a TD success rate of 91.67%
*Here's where they were ranked after each week:
- Week 1: #27 (25.00%)
- Week 2: #32 (28.57%)
- Week 3: #32 (25.00%)
- Week 4: #31 (36.36%)
- Week 5: #31 (37.50%)
- Week 6: #30 (44.44%)
- Week 7: #21 (58.33%)
- Week 8: #28 (53.57%)
- Week 9: #23 (58.84%)
- Week 10: #18 (59.46%)
- Week 11: #18 (57.50%)
- Week 12: #24 (55.56%)
- Week 13: #26 (54.35%)
- Week 14: #26 (54.35%)
- Week 15: #24 (54.00%)
- Week 16: #22 (56.60%)
- Week 17: #13 (61.02%)
- Week 18: #11 (61.90%)
- Week 19: #8 (63.08%) - obviously this includes the playoffs

So they hung around in the 20s and 30s for most of the season, with a brief foray into the high teens. But the last three weeks (including playoffs), they went nuts in the red zone, and shot up the rankings.

Here's what it looked like from weeks 16-19...

Week 16 - vs. Buf: 3 RZ, 3 TD
Week 17 - vs. Jax: 7 RZ, 7 TD
Week 18 - at Mia: 4 RZ, 3 TD, 1 FG
Week 19 - at Buf: 2 RZ, 2 TD

So in the last four games, including the playoff game, the Pats had 16 red zone opportunities and scored 15 touchdowns with 1 FG added in. 16-16 in terms of scoring, 15-16 in terms of touchdowns. That really skewed their overall season numbers. On the whole, they were a middling red zone team until the end of the year. So yes, because of those last few weeks, their total season numbers look very good, but during the course of the season, they weren't really that great in the red zone.

I am optimistic moving forward though, because they did seem to figure something out with respect to red zone offense. And not just against the Jags. They were 8-9 against Buffalo and Miami, and scored on all 9 trips into the red zone. So that's really good.

Good info (andyjohnson making things up as usual) but here's the thing. Middling red zone offense all year. Yes. The last 5 games the team went 1-4. Didn't move the ball, lower red zone opportunities. Why are people lying and claiming things were good when they were not. Take out the Jaguars, is 3 red zone chances a game good? No.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

It’s a fact, go look it up if you want.
The offense was 6th in points and 2nd in % of possessions scored on. That’s a good offense.

No it’s not , look at the context
We scored many points against bad teams and were efficient with our drives
Against good teams the offense wasn’t good , maybe average but definitely not good

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I got what you were saying. And I gave you the week-by-week progression. You can see that they started out horribly (#32 in the NFL after three weeks), improved some, and spent the vast majority of the season in the mid-20s. Then the last few weeks of the year they went bonkers in the red zone - not just efficiency, but number of RZ opportunities. And those last few weeks vaulted their season RZ stats into the top 10. Clearly they weren't a top RZ team for most of the season - from weeks 4-16 they hovered in the 20s. So for most of the season they were a below average RZ team. The last three weeks altered their entire season's RZ stats.

It's like if a batter was a .250 hitter for months on end, and then the last three weeks of the season hit like .800, making his final batting average above .300, what would we really say about his season? Would it be true that by season's end he was a top hitter? Yes. Would it be true that he was the best hitter after the first month of the year? Possibly true yes. But honestly, we would know that that data was skewed by a crazy insanely good few weeks at the end of the year, and that for the vast majority of the season, he wasn't a top hitter.

In other words, those last few weeks for the Patriots make the data look better than the team actually performed in the RZ for the vast bulk of the season.

It's also disingenuous when the offense was mid-20's all year but then as you note the last couple weeks skewed the stats a bit (Jaguars blowout) and the team still imploded to a 1-4 ending. An offense that only goes to the red zone 2-3 times a game in the last month is not good.

 

[Ring 6]

No it’s not , look at the context
We scored many points against bad teams and were efficient with our drives
Against good teams the offense wasn’t good , maybe average but definitely not good

All teams do better against bad teams than good ones.

 

[Ring 6]

I got what you were saying. And I gave you the week-by-week progression. You can see that they started out horribly (#32 in the NFL after three weeks), improved some, and spent the vast majority of the season in the mid-20s. Then the last few weeks of the year they went bonkers in the red zone - not just efficiency, but number of RZ opportunities. And those last few weeks vaulted their season RZ stats into the top 10. Clearly they weren't a top RZ team for most of the season - from weeks 4-16 they hovered in the 20s. So for most of the season they were a below average RZ team. The last three weeks altered their entire season's RZ stats.

It's like if a batter was a .250 hitter for months on end, and then the last three weeks of the season hit like .800, making his final batting average above .300, what would we really say about his season? Would it be true that by season's end he was a top hitter? Yes. Would it be true that he was the best hitter after the first month of the year? Possibly true yes. But honestly, we would know that that data was skewed by a crazy insanely good few weeks at the end of the year, and that for the vast majority of the season, he wasn't a top hitter.

In other words, those last few weeks for the Patriots make the data look better than the team actually performed in the RZ for the vast bulk of the season.

No you are looking at it wrong.
If a hitter goes 0-20 then 25-80 he wasn’t a .250 hitter during those 80 at bats.
Your method includes the 2/8 in weeks 1-3 to drag down the numbers while i am saying after a rough first 3 weeks, with a rookie Qb they were #1 in the NFL.

 

[yukon cornelius]

this offense was not constructed to get into track meets.......they had a rookie QB and played a risk-adverse style of offense as a result, to limit his mistakes while maintaining quality development......they were a run heavy/ball control offense that looked to be efficient in the red zone.....success with that offense is predicated on having a good defense, one that forces unproductive drives (as the offense hopes to limit touches with sustained drives) - this was an ideal offense considering they were starting a rookie QB, and were at this stage of the rebuild

in the games that were lost, they started slow, they fell behind early, and not only didn't have the horses to compete in the track meet, the defense ultimately fell apart enough against teams like the bills to ensure they had no chance to get back into it


the offense, however, is in better shape than the defense......you're alway looking to upgrade the OL, they are set at TE and RB and QB.....and are good with depth WR - they really need a consistent chain mover (does that come with experience for Mac and one of the guys already here, or is that an addition?) - a true hood-ornament type #1 would be nice, but that still may be a year away


the issue was still the defense.....could this offense have competed with a better performing defense? for sure......stop the bills on a few drives, and you might not have to stray as far from your intended offensive game plan......keep it to a once score, one TD and a FG type game and they open Mac up a little while still being able to run the ball, this offense was OK with that.......but when the D lost all control of the game, they just weren't constructed to compete......that's not the fault of the play caller, that's just where they were at at this stage of the build