After 12 games with Mac: which QBs would you take right now over him?

[ctpatsfan77]

not the same as having a photographic memory. Nice try though.

Then please explain, because I haven't seen anything suggesting Jones has a better memory than Brady.

 

[Kasmir]

The amount of disrespect for Mac in this thread is mind boggling to me. I don't understand how a fan base who watched Brady for the better part of two decades can't see that this kid is special and damn near a carbon copy of the guy who won us 6 Super Bowls, except he has better physical talents. Of course he's not as good as Brady right now, because Tom has 20+ years of experience. But I think he's as good as 2001 Brady, and he's only going to get better as he gains EXP points.

How can you watch Brady for almost 20 years and not realize the greatest attribute a QB can have isn't arm talent or his legs but his brain?

I think some of you should be Chiefs fans if you want a flashy all talent and little brains QB over Mac. You don't deserve Mac.

Completely agree. Even many Pats fans -- including the ones who discredit BB's development of Brady -- insist that Mac is succeeding only because of BB. Mac outplays the rookie field last year and this year, but all the credit goes to Saban and Belichick? What happened to the meme that players matter? And I thought we had the worst skill position players in the league? But Mac doesn't elevate his teammates like Trevor Lawrence will someday?

Very tired of hearing how all the other rookie 1st round QB's would be doing equally well here and Mac would fail anywhere else. That ignores the evidence and is just negative wishful thinking. I can get why the media and other fan bases want to believe that, but our own fan base too? So after throwing out his superior NCAA performance we're also throwing out his superior NFL performance too?

At some point actual performance trumps claims of unrealized potential.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Assuming BB is the coach for the entirety of the QB's time, and just sticking to the definite choices in the AFC:

Again, only over the current contract, and, for Watson, the legal issues and suspension risk come too.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Then please explain, because I haven't seen anything suggesting Jones has a better memory than Brady.

Well, we haven't seen much of Mac Jones this year, have we? Having a good memory (like Brady) is not the same as having a photographic memory (like Mac). And we know Mac is more academically gifted than Brady since he has two degrees he finished in 4 years.

 

[Nehalem]

Completely agree. Even many Pats fans -- including the ones who discredit BB's development of Brady -- insist that Mac is succeeding only because of BB. Mac outplays the rookie field last year and this year, but all the credit goes to Saban and Belichick? What happened to the meme that players matter? And I thought we had the worst skill position players in the league? But Mac doesn't elevate his teammates like Trevor Lawrence will someday?

Very tired of hearing how all the other rookie 1st round QB's would be doing equally well here and Mac would fail anywhere else. That ignores the evidence and is just negative wishful thinking. I can get why the media and other fan bases want to believe that, but our own fan base too? So after throwing out his superior NCAA performance we're also throwing out his superior NFL performance too?

At some point actual performance trumps claims of unrealized potential.

6 weeks ago...

BB is nothing without Tom Brady.

 

[Deus Irae]

Completely agree. Even many Pats fans -- including the ones who discredit BB's development of Brady -- insist that Mac is succeeding only because of BB. Mac outplays the rookie field last year and this year, but all the credit goes to Saban and Belichick? What happened to the meme that players matter? And I thought we had the worst skill position players in the league? But Mac doesn't elevate his teammates like Trevor Lawrence will someday?

If you don't see that the team has tailored its offensive game plan to protect and develop Jones, that's a you thing. It doesn't mean that Jones is hot garbage, but Jones has limitations, and the team has schemed to avoid them. In contrast to how the other rookies are being handled, That clearly hasn't happened with the Jets, for example. And, in a glorious coincidence, that scheme adjustment is largely a match with the offense's overall strengths and weaknesses, which has led to such adjustment being minimal and almost completely non-disruptive.

And this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Very tired of hearing how all the other rookie 1st round QB's would be doing equally well here and Mac would fail anywhere else.

Who's said that?

That ignores the evidence and is just negative wishful thinking. I can get why the media and other fan bases want to believe that, but our own fan base too? So after throwing out his superior NCAA performance we're also throwing out his superior NFL performance too?

At some point actual performance trumps claims of unrealized potential.

But what is that "actual performance"? That's a big part of the question, isn't it?

 

[Thelonious]

Um Trevor Lawrence. This is stupid. The team is helping Mac succeed, not the other way around. Get of the qb worship god I’m so sick of that.

Trevor Lawrence is still about 90% in the Potential Realm, a land once occupied by Ryan Leaf, among others. Mac is firmly in the Actual NFL Quarterback realm. I'll tell you what's "stupid": the tendency among Pat's fans to feel a need to turn every discussion into a p-----g contest to see who can be the most cynical about the team or its players. It looks macho, but it's actually as childish as it is tedious.

 

[sean10mm]

Maybe Trevor Lawrence turns into the next *spins HOF QB wheel* John Elway, but practically every year there is a QB taken high that's hyped up to be the next savior of the NFL. They usually aren't. In fact, most of them turn out to be bums.

Lawrence is trapped on a bad team and may be doomed for that reason, but he might also just be another college gimmick binch who tested well. Time will tell but there's no reason to take it for granted that he'd be doing what Jones is now.

 

[masterbouncer]

this thread will be fun in some years, imagine you've ended up having 40 years of NFL dominance with 2 legit franchise QBs while other teams take the same time to hit on only one real franchise QB and the pats fans would (have) trade(d) away their franchise QB in the rookie season because you know they are/were only "system QBs" and all the other QBs are better, the grass is always greener on the other side

start to enjoy your QB

 

[Pats2000]

Lawrence may never be the generational talent he is projected to be, but many say he is the best QB prospect to come out of the draft since possibly Peyton Manning at least Andrew Luck. He is a special talent.

I will tell you right now that if the Jags don't get better talent or coaching, he will never reach is full potential. Maybe a seasoned QB with Lawrence's skills could come into Jacksonville and make that offense work, but a raw rookie will never have a chance no matter how talented he is.

Yeah, all of these guys were "special talents" too. Some of them did alright/are had good seasons. But look at Goff, he had one good year, bust, Winston, bust, Clowney, never lived up to all that hype, Bradford, bust, Russell, bust, etc. 1st round generational talents are 50% likely to be average NFL players. So no thanks, I'll keep the guy that's showing he's special today.

• 2021: Trevor Lawrence
• 2020: Joe Burrow
• 2018: Baker Mayfield
• 2016: Jared Goff
• 2015: Jameis Winston
• 2014: Jadeveon Clowney
• 2013: Eric Fisher
• 2010: Sam Bradford
• 2007: JaMarcus Russell
• 2005: Alex Smith
• 2002: David Carr
• 2000: Courtney Brown

 

[Deus Irae]

start to enjoy your QB

What percentage of posters is it that you think aren't enjoying the QB?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

6 weeks ago...

BB is nothing without Tom Brady.

It's true, 2-4 was terrible after TB12 just won his 7th ring taking a 7-9 team and beating Brees, Rodgers, Mahomes.

Since then they've fixed some things they don't like to do. We'll see if it holds up of if they revert back to crappy football.

.

 

[Kasmir]

Interesting differences between Football Outsider's methodology and PFF. FO had this game as Mac's most productive; PFF gave him his lowest grade. Both might be true; this was one of the few games where Mac had to carry the offense and he did -- even though he missed more opportunities than usual.

DeSean Jackson and Deep Ball Specialists

At age 35, the Las Vegas wideout is still taking the top off of defenses like few players ever have.

www.footballoutsiders.com

 

[masterbouncer]

What percentage of posters is it that you think aren't enjoying the QB?

it seems a lot, why would you start such a stupid thread and discuss about what would it be with Lawrence or Mahomes
Jones is reading defenses like a 10 year vet, he is adjusting blocking schemes, changing plays etc how many rookie QB do that? it doesn't matter if you are playing for Jags or Miami or Pats, if you are not cerebrale enough to understand and read the game in front of you in game speed and adjust the Pats can't make it happen for you neither, just go back to last year with the experienced vet Newton who couldn't recognize a Blitzer if the guy was running around with a red flash light on his helmet

 

[VectorPrime]

You get the QB for the rest of his current contract. No guarantees beyond that.

Oh. Well I’d throw on a few more then.

it seems a lot, why would you start such a stupid thread and discuss about what would it be with Lawrence or Mahomes
Jones is reading defenses like a 10 year vet, he is adjusting blocking schemes, changing plays etc how many rookie QB do that? it doesn't matter if you are playing for Jags or Miami or Pats, if you are not cerebrale enough to understand and read the game in front of you in game speed and adjust the Pats can't make it happen for you neither, just go back to last year with the experienced vet Newton who couldn't recognize a Blitzer if the guy was running around with a red flash light on his helmet

************ “10 year vet” get a hold of yourself. He’s successfully doing undergrad physics and you’re claiming he split the atom.

 

[WinstonSmith]

I'll stick with the pats' current QB on his 15th pick rookie contract...but would love to upgrade my current wife. Looking for either young and beautiful or really old and wealthy.

 

[masterbouncer]

Oh. Well I’d throw on a few more then.


************ “10 year vet” get a hold of yourself. He’s doing undergrad physics and you’re claiming he split the atom.

show me other rookies doing the same...but of course its because they play for Jags and Bears and whatnot

 

[VectorPrime]

show me other rookies doing the same...

He’s clearly the best rookie QB this year no question. He doesn’t look like an established vet.

Brady broke some of you guys brains. Either in that if someone isn’t as good as Brady that they must suck OR conversely that since Mac looks good well then he’s the next Brady.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

The amount of disrespect for Mac in this thread is mind boggling to me. I don't understand how a fan base who watched Brady for the better part of two decades can't see that this kid is special and damn near a carbon copy of the guy who won us 6 Super Bowls, except he has better physical talents. Of course he's not as good as Brady right now, because Tom has 20+ years of experience. But I think he's as good as 2001 Brady, and he's only going to get better as he gains EXP points.

How can you watch Brady for almost 20 years and not realize the greatest attribute a QB can have isn't arm talent or his legs but his brain?

I think some of you should be Chiefs fans if you want a flashy all talent and little brains QB over Mac. You don't deserve Mac.

Post like this are so over the top man lol. You're trying way too hard with respect. Calling Mahomes a "little brains QB" only makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

Nobody is disrespecting Mac. If they are please quote them and air it out. If not we need to stop pretending something is there when it's not. I've seen no post or posters saying anything bad or negative about Mac. Certainly nothing to warrant calling for someone to go be a Chiefs fan lol. I mean you and others have compared him to Tom Brady before he played a snap. He was the 15th overall pick. Tons of hype from the media and here. He's been great and almost every one is saying so.

The fanboy stuff doesn't allow for an honest conversation. Nothing wrong with appreciating a play or w/e and hyping someone up. We have plenty of that and I do it all the time in my thread and others. What we could use more of is insight from posters instead of cheerleaders. Everyone here or most everyone here is a legit Pats fan. That's all a lot of us have ever known, with and without Brady. Esp those of us born around here. We all want to win. There's nothing wrong with fair criticism and being objective though. You're going to learn a lot more that way and be able to appreciate a lot more.

 

[sb1]

The amount of disrespect for Mac in this thread is mind boggling to me. I don't understand how a fan base who watched Brady for the better part of two decades can't see that this kid is special and damn near a carbon copy of the guy who won us 6 Super Bowls, except he has better physical talents. Of course he's not as good as Brady right now, because Tom has 20+ years of experience. But I think he's as good as 2001 Brady, and he's only going to get better as he gains EXP points.

How can you watch Brady for almost 20 years and not realize the greatest attribute a QB can have isn't arm talent or his legs but his brain?

I think some of you should be Chiefs fans if you want a flashy all talent and little brains QB over Mac. You don't deserve Mac.

I don't think anyone is disrespecting Mac...and I'm definitely not. He's blown away my expectations and I can't wait till he has a huge game in a big spot and have to watch likes of Nick Wright eat a heaping pile of crow. That game against Tenn was a statement, that is not a punching bag for a defense and he still could push the ball downfield.

I'm not ready to say yet that he's a sure thing. I'd love to say he is but I want to see more. The coaches need to loosen the reins to let that happen. Definitely not ready to anoint him as the next Brady. That high a bar won't do him or us any favors, it only sets us up for disappointment.