After 12 games with Mac: which QBs would you take right now over him?

[bogengames]

Yeah, all of these guys were "special talents" too. Some of them did alright/are had good seasons. But look at Goff, he had one good year, bust, Winston, bust, Clowney, never lived up to all that hype, Bradford, bust, Russell, bust, etc. 1st round generational talents are 50% likely to be average NFL players. So no thanks, I'll keep the guy that's showing he's special today.

• 2021: Trevor Lawrence
• 2020: Joe Burrow
• 2018: Baker Mayfield
• 2016: Jared Goff
• 2015: Jameis Winston
• 2014: Jadeveon Clowney
• 2013: Eric Fisher
• 2010: Sam Bradford
• 2007: JaMarcus Russell
• 2005: Alex Smith
• 2002: David Carr
• 2000: Courtney Brown

 

[Deus Irae]

it seems a lot, why would you start such a stupid thread and discuss about what would it be with Lawrence or Mahomes
Jones is reading defenses like a 10 year vet, he is adjusting blocking schemes, changing plays etc how many rookie QB do that? it doesn't matter if you are playing for Jags or Miami or Pats, if you are not cerebrale enough to understand and read the game in front of you in game speed and adjust the Pats can't make it happen for you neither, just go back to last year with the experienced vet Newton who couldn't recognize a Blitzer if the guy was running around with a red flash light on his helmet

So nobody, then.

 

[Deus Irae]

Post like this are so over the top man lol. You're trying way too hard with respect. Calling Mahomes a "little brains QB" only makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

Nobody is disrespecting Mac. If they are please quote them and air it out. If not we need to stop pretending something is there when it's not. I've seen no post or posters saying anything bad or negative about Mac. Certainly nothing to warrant calling for someone to go be a Chiefs fan lol. I mean you and others have compared him to Tom Brady before he played a snap. He was the 15th overall pick. Tons of hype from the media and here. He's been great and almost every one is saying so.

The fanboy stuff doesn't allow for an honest conversation. Nothing wrong with appreciating a play or w/e and hyping someone up. We have plenty of that and I do it all the time in my thread and others. What we could use more of is insight from posters instead of cheerleaders. Everyone here or most everyone here is a legit Pats fan. That's all a lot of us have ever known, with and without Brady. Esp those of us born around here. We all want to win. There's nothing wrong with fair criticism and being objective though. You're going to learn a lot more that way and be able to appreciate a lot more.

 

[Rob0729]

Yeah, all of these guys were "special talents" too. Some of them did alright/are had good seasons. But look at Goff, he had one good year, bust, Winston, bust, Clowney, never lived up to all that hype, Bradford, bust, Russell, bust, etc. 1st round generational talents are 50% likely to be average NFL players. So no thanks, I'll keep the guy that's showing he's special today.

• 2021: Trevor Lawrence
• 2020: Joe Burrow
• 2018: Baker Mayfield
• 2016: Jared Goff
• 2015: Jameis Winston
• 2014: Jadeveon Clowney
• 2013: Eric Fisher
• 2010: Sam Bradford
• 2007: JaMarcus Russell
• 2005: Alex Smith
• 2002: David Carr
• 2000: Courtney Brown

Just because a QB is drafted first doesn't mean he is as talented as a QB drafted in another year. Many of the years you listed, everyone knew the QB class in that draft was subpar. Not one of the QBs you listed were considered generational talents coming out of college. Some weren't even consensus #1 picks or the best QB in their respective drafts. You are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Hawaiianpatsfan2]

Honestly, how is it that Mac beat Trevor straight up in their pre-college camp? I'm not convinced there is a huge gap between the #1 pick and the Patriots QB.....


.

Not to mention the biggest factor of all. Mac lives and breathes football. It was wildly known that Lawernce is only an average enthusiast of the sport. Knowing what we know now after 12 weeks, Id take Mac the super competitor, over the more talented individual whos on the record several times explaining how "There's more to life than football" & "I'd still be happy if I wasn't playing football" type of wonderboy who was labeled the next great before he even threw a single NFL pass.

Everything about Lawernce screams Luck 2.0 to me.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

it seems a lot, why would you start such a stupid thread and discuss about what would it be with Lawrence or Mahomes
Jones is reading defenses like a 10 year vet, he is adjusting blocking schemes, changing plays etc how many rookie QB do that? it doesn't matter if you are playing for Jags or Miami or Pats, if you are not cerebrale enough to understand and read the game in front of you in game speed and adjust the Pats can't make it happen for you neither, just go back to last year with the experienced vet Newton who couldn't recognize a Blitzer if the guy was running around with a red flash light on his helmet

As someone noted, this is a thought experiment based on an impossible premise—e.g., in what universe would KC trade Mahomes to the Pats?

 

[Pats2000]

Just because a QB is drafted first doesn't mean he is as talented as a QB drafted in another year. Many of the years you listed, everyone knew the QB class in that draft was subpar. Not one of the QBs you listed were considered generational talents coming out of college. Some weren't even consensus #1 picks or the best QB in their respective drafts. You are comparing apples to oranges.

I'm comparing #1 picks to #1 picks. Seems pretty relevant

 

[Deus Irae]

Just because a QB is drafted first doesn't mean he is as talented as a QB drafted in another year.

Absolutely right.

 

[Deus Irae]

Everything about Lawernce screams Luck 2.0 to me.

Take away the injuries, and that would be great for Jacksonville.

 

[Hyped]

Comments:

1.) There's no way to answer the question as the OP framed it. Ages, Contract Sizes, Team Situations, Personnel, and etc.. are HUGE variables and must be considered. For example, would we be better than 8-4 with Tom Brady playing all 12 games? I think so, but do I want Brady and his 25M salary? Would we have been able to add Henry/Smith or Algholor/Bourne or Judon to this team with Brady taking up a significant chunk of the cap? Another example, Russell Wilson...would he work in this offense predicated on the short passing game?

2.) I think this question should be framed as WHERE does Mac rank vs. all 32 starting QB's right now....in a vacuum....ignoring personnel, salary, age, and etc... like if planet earth had to play a football game against an invading alien race...and we assemble the perfect football team...and now make a list of QB's we want to save the planet. Here's my list:

Tom Brady - Nobody has played in more BIG games nor won as much.
Patrick Mahomes - Most talented QB in the league, IMO. Doesn't need his legs to move the ball, but can use them.
Aaron Rodgers - Same as above...could be #2 on my list as well.
Russell Wilson - Not as much of a "quarterback" as the QB's above, but he does affect games and make something out of nothing.
Dak Prescott - I thought he was a MVP candidate early in the season myself.
DeShaun Watson - If he were playing, he would probably be ranked higher here.
Justin Herbert - Clutch plays and very advanced for a 2nd year guy.
Kyler Murray - Possibly more talented than some above, but we need to see more.
Lamar Jackson - Best running QB the league has ever seen....really affects the game and stretches defenses sideline to sideline.
Josh Allen - Not as good of a runner as above, but a better passer.
Joe Burrow - He's the original Mac Jones with better receivers, IMO.
Mac Jones - Joe Burrow/Chad Pennington 2.0 is what I see right now....maybe better some day.
Derek Carr - He's been very solid this year despite the turmoil on the team.
Kirk Cousins - Consistently good, but MVP/All Pro caliber?
Matthew Stafford - Shaky performances, but has the talent.
Matt Ryan - Shaky performances, but has the talent.
Tyler Heinicke - I like the kid....should have been the starter week 1 over Fitzy.
Jimmy Garopollo - He is what I was hoping Mac Jones would be...
Trevor Lawrence - He will start putting it together and move up the list.
Tua Tagovailoa - See above...I think Tua is playing A LOT better lately.
Ryan Tannehill - A lot like Kirk Cousins & Jimmy G above...consistently good and can manage things.
Ben Roethlisberger - Used to be a lot better...not so much right now. Maybe with a good line/better weapons.
Baker Mayfield - Shaky performances and I am not sure how much it is him or the personnel he has at his disposal.
Carson Wentz - Shaky....I think he's an one trick RPO pony QB.
Justin Fields - Will rise...I think we started to see glimpses of it against the Steelers a few weeks back.
Teddy Bridgewater - Just doesn't move the needle.
Zac Wilson - Needs to be more conservative and better personnel...but has the tools.
Jalen Hurts - I don't think he even looks beyond his first option before running with the ball.
Daniel Jones - Doesn't move the needle.
Cam Newton - Used to be good, but still an effective runner at the goal line. Hard one to figure out...looked good in pre-season here.
Taysom Hill - Dunno why he didn't win the job over Winston. We will find out.
Jared Goff - I think he's the worst starting QB in the league right now.

 

[Squish the Fish]

I haven't seen a few of the other young quarterbacks to have a strong opinion but if I was going to take any QB's over Mac Jones, it would probably be someone like Burrow or Herbert. A recent draft pick where you still have him on his rookie deal for a few years.

Even if one believes Burrow will be better than Jones, Jones having one year less on his rookie deal and being less expensive on a yearly basis and not having had a knee injury are factors worth considering.

 

[ivanvamp]

Late to the party here but this is a very difficult question posed in the OP. When you take contract into consideration, the list is very short. I think a related question would be: If Jacksonville called right now to offer Lawrence for Mac Jones straight up, would you take it if you're the Pats? (obviously it's past the trade deadline but forget that for a moment)

THAT would be a very difficult question to answer. On the one hand you could say that so far, Mac has simply been much better. But on the other, Lawrence was drafted #1 for a reason, and Jax has nothing around him. It's easy to see Lawrence doing very well here in NE. But honestly, how much better would he be doing than Mac? Hard to see him being *that* much better if at all.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

He's got a good arm, great touch, on time, on target, catchable ball - similar throwing traits as a Peyton Manning or Joe Montana. Certainly not a cannon arm but can get the ball down the field.

He's also very bright, can take command at the los and put the offense into the right play, understands what he's seeing both before and after the snap. Quick release which is a function of his mental awareness.

The main areas of growth I expect are: to see rushers bearing down on him, to turn his agility & footwork into improved escapability, and to use his speed to occasionally get outside for both rollout throws and broken play throws. He climbs the pocket fairly well and can dodge an oncoming rusher, but he's not seeing outside or delayed rushers - hopefully he can develop that sense.

Another thing to be seen is how he adapts to cold weather, and how he leads in big games when he has to play from behind. These were things that really set Brady apart.

For our team, there's no other rookie I'd trade him for, and with his promise I wouldn't trade him for anyone over 30.

 

[Deus Irae]

What makes the "OMG! How DARE you not pick Jones" position even more silly than it might normally been (and that would be plenty silly on its own) is that what's happening is what we all were told would happen. "Mac Jones is the most NFL-ready QB in the draft" was the mantra being repeated over and over and over, leading up to the draft.

Drew Brees said so, for example

Here's Steve Sarkisian saying it too, and you can find plenty of others easily enough

The question about Jones is not, and was not, his readiness compared to the other rookie QBs in year one. The question about Jones was, and continues to be, where his development tops out.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm comparing #1 picks to #1 picks. Seems pretty relevant

Not really. The quality of the first pick in the draft varies especially with QBs. A top QB could go #1 in the draft, but be like the 5th or 6th best player in the draft or not even in the top 10. But he is the #1 pick because the league revolves around the QB position and a team will draft a QB over a much better player who plays another position because they are desperate for a franchise QB.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Why wouldn't anyone take the 7 time Super Bowl Champion Tom Brady?

 

[TomPatriot]

He’s not the GOAT but Mac is having a 2021 that looks a lot like Brady 2001.

Completion % - 70.3 v. 63.9
Yards - 2850 v. 2843
Rating - 97.1 v. 86.5
TDS - 16 v. 18
And the beat goes on . . .

Versus Finder | Player and Team Comparison and Head-to-Head Stats | Stathead.com

Versus Finder is a comparison tool by Stathead.com that lets you compare players and teams across football. If you're looking for head-to-head comparisons, the Versus Finder is your go-to tool

stathead.com

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

I mean you and others have compared him to Tom Brady before he played a snap. He was the 15th overall pick.

My first post here since I came back was Oct the 28th. Had he played a snap by then?

 

[bormio]

Late to the party here but this is a very difficult question posed in the OP. When you take contract into consideration, the list is very short. I think a related question would be: If Jacksonville called right now to offer Lawrence for Mac Jones straight up, would you take it if you're the Pats? (obviously it's past the trade deadline but forget that for a moment)

THAT would be a very difficult question to answer. On the one hand you could say that so far, Mac has simply been much better. But on the other, Lawrence was drafted #1 for a reason, and Jax has nothing around him. It's easy to see Lawrence doing very well here in NE. But honestly, how much better would he be doing than Mac? Hard to see him being *that* much better if at all.

If Jacksonville actually did that, I would keep Jones in a heartbeat.

 

[Deus Irae]

My first post here since I came back was Oct the 28th. Had he played a snap by then?

I made a post in this thread that read

Entering this season, Mahomes had been a starter for 3 seasons. In those 3 seasons, he took his team to 3AFCCGs, 2 Super Bowls, and a Super Bowl victory.


And Mac Jones is not Tom Brady.

You actually disagreed with that.