Adam Schefter: Patriots want minimum of 1st and 4th round picks for QB Jimmy Garoppolo

[The Gr8est]

Here's a thought:

BB will be trading with a guy that he knows like Grop and and has set the bar high for price.

I smell 3 1st rounders from San Fran coming soon

Maybe the Pats could get two 1st round picks if they make one a conditional pick that could become a 1st.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

His draft position is relevant to his perceived value at the time of the draft and what had happened since will change that perception.
To ignore where he was drafted is to ignore the grade teams put in him before he sat in NE for 3 years aside from playing a game and a half.
Every team evaluated him pre draft and adjust their evaluation as time goes by. They didn't not know who he was prior to him playing a game and a half.

We are talking about two completely separate things. Though neither will be affected by the price we paid for the player in draft currency.

One is value (or perceived value), while the other is cost.

Yes, part of his potential value for a team will derive from their earlier notes during the draft evaluation process. But where he was actually drafted won't affect that. If a team had a 2nd round grade on him, they might feel better about that assessment. But if a team had a 4th round grade on him, they aren't going to bump him up based on the Patriots taking him earlier. Just because the Broncos spent a 1st on Tim Tebow does NOT mean all teams will value him similarly, or grade him a bit higher since he was drafted so high.

Also bear in mind that we got KILLED by some "experts" for the Jimmy pick. Meanwhile some reports say some teams had him ahead of Derek Carr, and potentially a 1st rounder. Different values, different teams, but where BB selects him won't shift his value to those teams. If a team had a 2nd round grade on him, it wouldn't fluctuate if he got drafted in the 1st or 3rd. His grade is independent of what we paid.

So that is value. And yes, draft tape and notes will matter, actual draft position won't.

What also won't is price, specifically what we paid for him in draft currency.

Saying we spent a 2nd round pick on him is irrelevant in negotiations. It's not like Cleveland is thinking about giving us a 3rd, and we can whine, "But we paid a 2nd," then they change their offer. Nobody gives a **** when it comes to what pick we used to select him. Just because we overpaid or underpaid for a guy doesn't alter the value to the other side.

And that's why it doesn't matter where he got drafted. The value isn't affected by where he was drafted, and neither is the price.

Think about it this way. The Patriots had a 3rd round grade on Tom Brady. But they didn't draft him until the 6th round. What is his value? A 3rd like he was rated, or a 6th because that's what they actually paid?

Or do they value him like a 1st overall based on his play?

 

[supafly]

Mark Dominik Says Garoppolo The "Hottest, Most Interesting Name" On QB Market ; Expects Shanahan To Have Success In SF

JG talk starts at 12:38. The headline doesn't do justice to how much Dominik seems to like JG.

Wait...with the expected arrival of Dominik, doesn't that put Mike Glennon (can be had for nothing as he is an UFA) in play, as well?

 

[carmelo15]

Man if SF is willing to offer the 2nd pick no need to be greasy run and accept. I'm sure BB will than trade down anyways.

 

[patfanken]

I was wondering why this thread is still getting so much action, but after reading the last 2 pages I can understand why. Some of my own thoughts.

1. This is a BAD QB class. There are several that have great physical talent, but NONE of them are ready to run an NFL offense in their first year. It would be a disaster.

2. Deshaun Watson had a fantastic National Championship game, and by all accounts is off the charts in his intangibles. But the fact remains college kids picked him off SEVENTEEN times last season, and that's WITH the benefit of having 3 future NFL receivers to throw to. That is NOT going to be unnoticed by evaluators. Trabisky has just one year as a starter and is in no position to read an NFL defense and won't for a coouple of years. The kid from ND would be my pick as the most NFL read QB, but he's no where near what top "can't miss" #1 picks would bring.

3. I still believe that JG would a much better use of a top 15 pick, than any of to top QB's entering the draft. He's a better risk with a high floor and a high cieling, plus he'd actually be cheaper than what you'd have to pay a top 15 pick (at least for 2o17)

4. If I were SF, I'd try to trade down 3 or 4 slots and pick up some more picks They need bodies., then trade that #6 pick for Garapolo. The deal would go that the Pats get the #6 for Garapolo. They give SF their first rounder #32, but get SF's 3rd round pick this season (which they probably replaced in that trade down) and SF's 2nd round pick in 20018 and 2019.

For the Pats they FINALLY have a shot at getting a bluechip elite defender. The player they give up at 32, will come from the same group that they have at 64 talent wise. Plus they get a shot at a solid addition at the top of the 3rd round. Plus for the next 2 years, BB can really f*ck around in the 2nd with an extra pick in BB's favorite home run or strike out round.

 

[Ring 6]

We are talking about two completely separate things. Though neither will be affected by the price we paid for the player in draft currency.

One is value (or perceived value), while the other is cost.

Yes, part of his potential value for a team will derive from their earlier notes during the draft evaluation process. But where he was actually drafted won't affect that. If a team had a 2nd round grade on him, they might feel better about that assessment. But if a team had a 4th round grade on him, they aren't going to bump him up based on the Patriots taking him earlier. Just because the Broncos spent a 1st on Tim Tebow does NOT mean all teams will value him similarly, or grade him a bit higher since he was drafted so high.

Also bear in mind that we got KILLED by some "experts" for the Jimmy pick. Meanwhile some reports say some teams had him ahead of Derek Carr, and potentially a 1st rounder. Different values, different teams, but where BB selects him won't shift his value to those teams. If a team had a 2nd round grade on him, it wouldn't fluctuate if he got drafted in the 1st or 3rd. His grade is independent of what we paid.

So that is value. And yes, draft tape and notes will matter, actual draft position won't.

What also won't is price, specifically what we paid for him in draft currency.

Saying we spent a 2nd round pick on him is irrelevant in negotiations. It's not like Cleveland is thinking about giving us a 3rd, and we can whine, "But we paid a 2nd," then they change their offer. Nobody gives a **** when it comes to what pick we used to select him. Just because we overpaid or underpaid for a guy doesn't alter the value to the other side.

And that's why it doesn't matter where he got drafted. The value isn't affected by where he was drafted, and neither is the price.

Think about it this way. The Patriots had a 3rd round grade on Tom Brady. But they didn't draft him until the 6th round. What is his value? A 3rd like he was rated, or a 6th because that's what they actually paid?

Or do they value him like a 1st overall based on his play?

To prevent super long posts I presume a players draft "value" is approximately where he was drafted

If the patriots had a 3rd round grade on Brady hey wouldn't have waited until the 6th.

And of course what pick was used is not a part of the negotiation.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

To prevent super long posts I presume a players draft "value" is approximately where he was drafted

If the patriots had a 3rd round grade on Brady hey wouldn't have waited until the 6th.

And of course what pick was used is not a part of the negotiation.

What's with that last line? I mean, my original post which you disagreed with said,

Agree with almost all of this but again, keep needing to repeat myself: Jimmy G's draft position is irrelevant when discussing his compensation.

Bold/italics/underline by me while quoting myself. Just because I keep repeating it over and over and over and nobody seems to be reading it.

As for the rest, you presume that every team is drafting guys at roughly the right mark and valuing them the exact same way. Tebow's a 1st rounder, Robert Aguayo is a 2nd rounder, Russell Wilson is a 3rd rounder, Brady's a 6th rounder, despite several teams rating him higher than that.

Technically, the Patriots don't give grades to prospects based on round. But they were absolutely considering him in the 3rd.

"We started talking about Brady around the third round," said Pioli. "When you are drafting based on need or best player and you are waffling back and forth, you have to do things strategically."

"But every round, we're looking at Brady," Pioli continued. "When it got to the sixth round — we had the [draft] board stacked vertically [with columns moving left to right] — by the time we got to the sixth round, Brady is all the way over to the left by himself and we said 'what are we doing?' ... everyone liked Brady ... so we took him."

How the Patriots pulled off the biggest steal in NFL Draft history and landed future Hall of Famer Tom Brady in the 6th round

And the Sporting News profile on Brady in 2000 is almost spot-on, minus their prediction of him being drafted in the 3rd:

“When NFL teams look beyond obvious physical attributes, they put stock in a player’s intelligence and other intangible qualities,” the profile reads. “Brady, who was briefly on a college boxing club, feels that his won’t-back-down attitude is his best on-the-field talent.” The analysis of his intangibles continues with a quote from Brady that certainly will resonate with Patriots fans. “I think my best asset as a player is that in the fourth quarter, with the game on the line, I have the desire to win and the feeling that our team is not going to lose,” Brady said. Yup.

Tom Brady Profile In Sporting News’ 2000 Draft Guide Is Almost Spot-On

You also don't factor in different players and their fits in different systems. A guy could be a 1st-rounder in one system and a 4th in another because of fit.

Or that there are sometimes too many prospects to be drafted in their appropriate rounds. In this year's draft, the early board shows over 80 prospects with 2/3rd round grades. Not all of those guys will go in the round they're projected. Does that make them lesser players?

So I disagree that a prospect's draft value is approximate to where he gets drafted. But it's kind of a moot point. We both agree that Jimmy's original draft position has no bearing on what he will fetch in a trade.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Check out @BenjaminSolak's Tweet:

We might want a Garoppolo stickied?

At least for a few months?

In terms of all available QB's (Trade, FA, Draft) He's at the top of the list. Young but tons of experience. Tutored and coached by the best. And most importantly played very well.


If I'm a Cleveland fan and don't have Myles Garrett and Jimmy Garoppolo on my team in 2017-18 I'm seriously rethinking my fandom. No excuse, none.

Those are 2 young, good looking guys that would make an immediate impact on and off the field.

 

[The Gr8est]

Check out @BenjaminSolak's Tweet:

Not sure what he means by that. Is he suggesting teams needing QBs should look elsewhere since the Browns will be getting Jimmy?

 

[jboston19]

Not sure what he means by that. Is he suggesting teams needing QBs should look elsewhere since the Browns will be getting Jimmy?

I took it as mocking the fact the QB needy Browns will be looking at potentially a very good QB in garrapolo but will consider options in the draft.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

All of the above plus the obvious. Browns are def interested. How much $$$? Who knows.

Again there are a lot of bad teams run like **** but the Browns are in a truly unique spot here. It does not come around that often, if ever really?

Garoppolo. Like him, hate, overrated, underrated etc is the best option in terms of legit NFL QB you can build around and win with.

Cleveland has a chance to almost copy Oakland w/ Mack/Carr. You have to take that chance and run w/ it.

No bias, no homerism. Being 100% objective that is the best plan they could take imho.