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A vote of confidence for the painful philosophy of: "Better to let a player go too early than too late"

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Sep 12th

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DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Because Belichick is ultimately the GM and it's his job to make the decisions on the team personnel. If McDaniels gave him bad advice, it's Bill's job to assess and make the correct decisions. Also this goes beyond one bad draft. Bill has had bad drafts since 14/15. This is nothing new. Josh is a good OC who has proven he could put together many league leading offenses and win SB's and draft gameplans on the fly when they needed. If he sucks at evaluating talent, then Bill as the GM shouldn't heed his advice, and thats on him if he needs to rely on his OC to make his decisions on offensive players.

That's right. Josh consistently gives the worst evaluation advice ever. And I'm not holding Belichick blameless. If he continues to listen to the idiocy of McDaniels the next half year then he's ultimately culpable for not recognizing or fixing this.
 

Tony2046

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Gotta ask
If Tampa's D couldn't defend the multiple GB red zone incursions after Brady's pants crapping in the 2nd half, what would the Brady narrative have been in defeat?

I don't know. How do you feel after this pants crapping post?
 

Tony2046

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I'd have no problem saying he choked because he certainly tried. He was awful in the 2nd half. Rodgers just choked more as I wrote in the Bucs thread. The difference in the game was points off of turnovers. I think Brady converted 3 out 3 for TD's. Rodgers only mustered 6 points off of 3 turnovers. Rodgers late 1st half INT that resulted in a long bomb TD to Miller was the back breaker.

Dumb take. It dismisses almost 45 minutes of the game as irrelevant.
 

TheRainMaker

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Another great hindsight post from you.

Thank God BB weaseled his way to nine Super Bowl appearances. More than any other HC in NFL history. WTF?
Tell me what was hindsight to you?
 

crawhammer

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
When Laurence Mareney gets drafted, that's obviously Belichick as the final say. But when Laurence Maroney is drafted because his RB coach is Ben McDaniels and Patriots scouts say don't draft this guy, I think it's weird you're trying to downplay the influence and damage of McDaniels.

We started to draft great again exactly when Josh left from 2009-2012 and we started to suck at drafting again exactly when Josh came back from 2013-now.
Either way beLichick is responsible. You can't insult McDaniels without indicting his boss. That said I don't believe for a second that beLichick is deferring any important decisions to any underling.
 

TheRainMaker

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I don't know. How do you feel after this pants crapping post?
Their offense had 3 consecutive turnovers. The first and third were on Brady. One throwing in double coverage and the 3nd just chucking it up was not a good decision. Rodgers got 6 points out of 3 consecutive turnovers. Not sure why you're panties are in a bunch on this.
 

crawhammer

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Did you ever notice no other players ever really sat with Brady on the sideline and Josh always looked like a therapist there next to him?
That's not a credible instance. It's a vague and useless generalization that has no merit whatsoever. For god's sake Edelman practically sat on Brady's lap on the sideline. And the idea of McDaniels counseling Brady is hilariously ridiculous.
 

Tony2046

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Their offense had 3 consecutive turnovers. The first and third were on Brady. One throwing in double coverage and the 3nd just chucking it up was not a good decision. Rodgers got 6 points out of 3 consecutive turnovers. Not sure why you're panties are in a bunch on this.

Here's a learning lesson. People who post "panties in a bunch" actually have their panties in a bunch.

Not all turnovers are the same. Some are calculated risks. Which Brady took. Not saying that I agree with them but I definitely understand them.
 

TheRainMaker

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Here's a learning lesson. People who post "panties in a bunch" actually have their panties in a bunch.

Not all turnovers are the same. Some are calculated risks. Which Brady took. Not saying that I agree with them but I definitely understand them.
I don't. You're the one going around telling people their take is dumb without any reason why. I was simply asking why you are so triggered over two people saying Brady was bad in the 2nd half?
Talking about a game that Brady n crew won. What are you talking about?
That's fine you don't think Brady was bad in the 2nd half. 3 consecutive turnovers and Rodgers got 6 points.
Your whole post. Hindsight is your thing.
Again, you can't answer why.

Ty Law - Did Samuel do much before to show he was ready? Ellis Hobbs was a 3rd round rookie. Duane Starks was bad with the Cardinals.
Vinatieri - Letting him walk for a rookie 4th round K was a risk for a team that won off of his big kicks.
Seymour - Who did they have to replace Seymour? Couldn't use the pick until 2011.
Mike Vrabel - You think he was good in 2008?
Chandler Jones - Jones wasn't any good?

I'd love to hear an explanation why I'm wrong.
 
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DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Either way beLichick is responsible. You can't insult McDaniels without indicting his boss. That said I don't believe for a second that beLichick is deferring any important decisions to any underling.

I think you're splitting hairs. Yes Belichick is the final decison maker. And yes he's getting absolutely terrible evaluations from MCDaniels. We do know Belichick CAN draft well when he's getting good reports. Belichick drafted well 2009-2012 and 2001-2004 when McDaniels was not here. The whole value groupings draft strategy doesn't work if your evals are trash.

.

.
 

crawhammer

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Firstly, Brady was outstanding in the first half of the NFCCG.

The opening drive he would have been 5-5 if not for the Fournette drops. As it was he was 3-3 on 3rd downs for 56 yards and a touchdown. The 2nd quarter TD run by Fournette was setup by a 52-yard completion to Godwin on 3rd-9. A 4th down conversion setup the 39-yard strike to Miller with 0:01 left in the half.

To start the second half a perfect play-action setup an easy TD pass to Brate.

The worst turnover of the game was the Rodgers pick with 0:34 left in the first half. It probably took 3 points off the scoreboard for Green Bay while setting up the TD pass to Miller. That's a 10-point swing.

The second worst turnover was the fumble by Jones that setup the TD pass to Brate. Just like that it's 28-10. I knew the game was over at that point because Brady has never choked up an 18-point second half lead and Rodgers has never made up an 18-point second half deficit (I was sort of guessing but I didn't feel like I even had to check this out to know I was right).

Brady's first pick was his worst throw as Evans probably could have made a play on the ball if it was thrown more toward the sideline. The decision was fine, the throw wasn't. Bad pick, and although Green Bay only got the ball on their 32-yard line, they did sustain a time consuming TD drive (missed the PAT).

Brady's second pick was the most annoying because a completion there would have set them up for a score. The throw wasn't great but Evans could have made a better play for it and as it was he got his hands on it just enough to send it right into the hands of defender. Rodgers did nothing with the opportunity, 3-and-out. The turnover amounted to nothing.

Brady's third pick was a hail mary while under immediate pressure on a 3rd-10. It was as good as a punt. So between that and Rodgers again following it up with a 3-and-out, this turnover amounted to nothing as well.

Only one of Brady's picks amounted to anything (6 points). Green Bay's turnovers resulted in 14 points for Tampa Bay. Those are the facts.

The worst play of game, by any player, was by Rodgers on his final snap of the game. On the 3rd-and-goal from the 8, as he was scrambling out of the pocket to his right, that entire side of the field was literally wide open for him to make a dash for the end zone and instead he drilled a low percentage pass at the feet of Adams who was blanketed with double coverage. Game Over.

Over the course of the entire game, Brady made the better plays and capitalized on more opportunities whereas Rodgers made the more costly mistakes and squandered too many opportunities. Which is the summary of either's careers.
 

stcjones

Pro Bowl Player
Yeah AV didn't look great (like Brady didn't look fantastic in 2019) and the Pats moved on with Ghost and AV won another ring in Indy. It's so weird and jolting that it happened now with Brady but this stuff has been happening for 20 years. I loved Vinatieri.

.
Yeah letting vinny go was a mistake .... guy kicked well for like 15 years in Indy.....always a legend here!
 

DarrylS

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Brady decided to move on when he felt that it was clear the BB didn’t want him here if Bill had asked Brady to stay he would have !

And you know that how??? Sportstalk radio told you??
 

stcjones

Pro Bowl Player
Brady being in New England in 2020 would have resulted a few more wins however it would have ended like 2019 at best, a one and done post season. The team was in salary cap hell. Brady's attitude would have continued to decline as they could not afford what he wanted them to get. 2020 worked out well for Brady and for the Patriots who took their pain this year all at once.

Really does anyone think that Brady being with the Patriots in 2020 would have made up for all the problems the team had this year?
Brady would have won more games and who knows what might have happened if they made playoffs....it’s Tom $&@*% Brady!!! But I don’t think Tom wanted to be here anymore....he and Bill were at odds and the marriage was over.

the much Bigger Blunder was of course Sham Newton.....worst “quarterback” to ever play for New England and one of worst quarterback stats in history of the game!!! BB really whiffed on this guy and the team was a laughingstock.....oh well I’m sure sham will be gone and let’s hope they draft well and sign a decent vet
 

stcjones

Pro Bowl Player
Great thread.

- Ty Law. Mistake because there was no nobody waiting. Asante was not ready and both he, Duane Starks and Hobbs were getting roasted all season. The 2005 season was lost due to bad CB play and no youth at LB. He would've also been helpful in 2006 and 2007.
- Adam Vinatieri.
Massive mistake. He kicks in Super Bowl 42 on 4th and 13. Ghost was good, but I never trusted the guy.
- Richard Seymour. Mistake. Could've been useful in 2010 against the Jets. Didn't use the pick until 2011.
- Mike Vrabel. Good trade. He was absolutely done in 2008. No matter how hard he tried, he couldn't get past T's.

2016-
- Chandler Jones.
Mistake especially what they received in return (only a 2nd round pick) as he was worth a 1st. He got better when he left because the Cards unleashed him. People complain he didn't show up in certain games, but he was clearly held back due to scheme. There were many times he was doing the "mush rush" or what I like to call fake rushing the QB. Because BB is always moving around the draft, trading Jones was not the only way they could've got Thuney, Mitchell or insert name. Then there's the Gilmore argument. Both won only one Super Bowl with the Pats so take your pick.
Good breakdown here
 

DarrylS

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Yeah letting vinny go was a mistake .... guy kicked well for like 15 years in Indy.....always a legend here!

As much as I like Vinateri, Gostowski was a better than average successor.. the transition was seemless.
 

stcjones

Pro Bowl Player
Funny that you mention that, but I am from Indiana, went to IU, love basketball, and post on IU basketball forums. I moved to MA after college.

For 20 years, most of the posters there are also Colts fans and HATE Brady. I usually avoid discussing football there.

But yesterday these Colts fans were universally slackjawed in amazement at Brady's performance at age 43 and reciting his stats.

I had to chime in "wait, for 20 years you called him a lucky noodle-armed game managing system QB, carried by defense, coaching, and so called "shenanigans" without which he'd be average at best. Are you telling me , now, that you were full of crap for 20 years?"

Their answer: yes, I guess we were all full of crap!
I could have told you they were full of crap well in advance....They’re Colts fans!
 
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