PatsFans.com - Mobile
PatsFans.com
Search

A vote of confidence for the painful philosophy of: "Better to let a player go too early than too late"

2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I don't remember anyone looking at Peyton in that year and saying, "Well clearly he's going to suck next year to the tune of 9 tds and 17 ints." It's not anti-Brady to say that these things can happen suddenly. Manning went from a good quarterback to Cam Newton numbers (without the ability to run). And he was only 39. Brady is special, and I feel I have to say this again because people get riled up: I am NOT saying it is GOING to happen. Just that no season, no matter how good, is a guarantee for next year.
Dude go look at Peyton's stats the first half of that season and the second half. 10 of his 15 interceptions came in the last 8 games. After the Rams game his TD to INT ration was 10:8. His completion percentage over that stretch was 58%. 5 of his last 7 passer ratings were 85 or less. His stats pretty much got saved by the Dolphins game. He was on a record breaking pace halfway through the season. He was easily on pace to match 2013.

Then go watch the Colts playoff game. He was done. Completely done. Got worked in his own stadium. The writing was on the wall. If you think it was sudden, it wasn't. After the season he blamed it on a quad tear. So this wasn't like something that was known.

Manning being 39 is kinda immaterial too. He had a massive injury a few years before. People downplay that **** so much. There was a point where the dude could barely throw a ball and people thought his career was over. What he did was a miracle. He got himself back into game form for 2012 and slowly improved as the season went on, was raging hot all 2013, came out in the same form in 2014, then the Rams beat the hell out of him and he lost all his momentum and limped off the rest of the year and then came out next year completely done. The dude could not afford a setback like that.

Yes these can happen suddenly, but what happened to Manning didn't happen suddenly. What happened to Brees this year was a reflection of the end of last year. Brady just had his second best year for TD's, a top 5 year for yards, a top 5 completion% year (and 2 of the other top 5 are within .2 of this one so it's really more of a tie for top 3), was 1 pass attempt short of his all time passing attempts in a season, and the rest of his stats are about in line with his average. Statistically he's virtually in the same ballpark as his 2017 year (now 2017 he started out extremely hot and cooled down so it's different because for most of the year he was better than his final stats). There's really no indicators just yet.
 

IllegalContact

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
As to the original posters point, it true that the Pays have been well served by the philosophy of moving on a year early than a year late. But quarterback is a unique singular position. It is the hardest position to fill and the hardest position to replace. It’s not lIke the O-line or D-line, etc. where the loss of one player can be replaced with lesser talent and yet the line as a whole may be just as effective depending on the quality of the other lineman. So yeah, the philosophy works in general, but not so much for QBs.
However, the QB doesn’t matter if the other pieces aren’t in place. Teams have gotten to the super bowl and won it with less than stellar QBs....no QB has ever carried a less than stellar team to the super bowl and won it
 

skinnydog

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
However, the QB doesn’t matter if the other pieces aren’t in place. Teams have gotten to the super bowl and won it with less than stellar QBs....no QB has ever carried a less than stellar team to the super bowl and won it
That is exceedingly rare. in the last 19 years there have been maybe 4 subpar QBs who won it all? Foles was one of them but it was not because of the team around him, it was because of one of the worst defensive performances ever in a SB by the Pats,
 

DarrylS

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
If I remember correctly all of last season Brady had his house on the market as did Alex Guerrero..

If I also remember correctly Brady had issues with throwing last year (looked that way from my big comfy couch), and it was reported he was not even taking snaps during practice due to some elbow injury.

Since being in Tampa he has complained about the NE weather..

Tom wanted to move on, maybe to cement his legacy away from BB or maybe he just wanted another environment for he and his family.. but much of this was his choice.

Not convinced money was the issue.. and have never seen any validation that there was a rift between he and BB...
 

Lagaffe_07

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Tom wanted to move on, maybe to cement his legacy away from BB or maybe he just wanted another environment for he and his family.. but much of this was his choice.
Brady decided to move on when he felt that it was clear the BB didn’t want him here if Bill had asked Brady to stay he would have !
 

TheRainMaker

Team Tom Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Believe it or not, but Stephen A Smith said yesterday that he has reliable sources that said Brady would've returned to NE if BB wanted him to. He didn't so Brady left. I think his sources are wrong.
 

NormZauchin

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Same for stocks.

I count my blessings everyday that I followed my brother in laws advice and got out of Tesla before the Bull market hit.
In 1986, a friend of mine bought 100 shares of the Microsoft IPO for $21/share. Hardly anyone knew the company. He sold his shares about two years later for a nice profit. Earlier this year, he told me that those shares, after many splits, are now worth well over a million dollars.
 

IllegalContact

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
That is exceedingly rare. in the last 19 years there have been maybe 4 subpar QBs who won it all? Foles was one of them but it was not because of the team around him, it was because of one of the worst defensive performances ever in a SB by the Pats,

and the following year, one of the best........with subpar QB play
 

Dr Pain

In the Starting Line-Up
What about 21, 22, 23 and 24?

Because he's going to be around quite a while and showing no signs of slowing down.

Brady leaving isn't because bill allowed it, it's because brady chose it. He did so for what reason? Because bill roster management and drafting, plus his cap management left us in a position where brady would be on a team that was worse than the season he just had.

Brady would not of left the Patriots if he had the offebsive weapons here he has in tampa. So the argument isn't if we would of been good, it's why bill couldn't figure out how to field a roster that was Superbowl caliber
You realize the Patriots never even made Brady an offer to stay don't you? Patriots knew they were screwed and chose wisely to take the pain all at once. Brady staying would not have changed this years outcome substantially and his attitude we saw in 19 would have only gotten worse, poison for a team incapable of real success and needing to rebuild. This was the best result for both parties, Brady got to go to a very solid team and bring in folks who wanted to go for it all now and the Patriots took their pain now so they can try and rebuild.

It is pure fantasy to think the Patriots could have fielded a team capable of going for it all this year Brady or not and Brady would have entered a new level of hissyfitdom that they could not have. Brady is the best QB of all time but he off the chart hissyfit wise when things and people don't go his way. He was poison for developing players who had to earn his trust. He hasn't been the guy who said his favorite receiver was the open one for many years. He is a primadonna that found a place that worked for him.
 

skinnydog

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
You realize the Patriots never even made Brady an offer to stay don't you? Patriots knew they were screwed and chose wisely to take the pain all at once. Brady staying would not have changed this years outcome substantially and his attitude we saw in 19 would have only gotten worse, poison for a team incapable of real success and needing to rebuild. This was the best result for both parties, Brady got to go to a very solid team and bring in folks who wanted to go for it all now and the Patriots took their pain now so they can try and rebuild.

It is pure fantasy to think the Patriots could have fielded a team capable of going for it all this year Brady or not and Brady would have entered a new level of hissyfitdom that they could not have. Brady is the best QB of all time but he off the chart hissyfit wise when things and people don't go his way. He was poison for developing players who had to earn his trust. He hasn't been the guy who said his favorite receiver was the open one for many years. He is a primadonna that found a place that worked for him.
And yet he is spreading the ball around in Tampa. He had no one to spread it around to anymore in NE. Hissy fit? You need to watch some games around the league to see QB hissy fit. Watch the Rogers post game press conference. Expressing frustration? How could he not? In 2019 he had one of the worst wide receiver groups in the league as the season wore on. Poison to developing players? Like who? Harry? If so Harry had a fully supportive Cam and Harry could not even approach the performance of an undrafted 2nd year receiver in Meyers.
 

crawhammer

On the Game Day Roster
It would be like watching Brady to Gronk against the Rams in the 4th quarter and realizing McDaniels is a total fraudster without 2 hall of famers. Sorry had to do it.
Are you the one who hates McDaniels so much? But defends beLichick?

You really think McDaniels is ever doing anything of any significance without beLichick's ok?

And I think Brady has proven this season that head coaches, positional coaches and play callers aren't nearly as important as the player(s) on the field. Two more seasons in Tampa Bay and Bruce Arians will be a hall of farmer and Byron Leftwich will be a head coach.
 

crawhammer

On the Game Day Roster
You realize the Patriots never even made Brady an offer to stay don't you? Patriots knew they were screwed and chose wisely to take the pain all at once. Brady staying would not have changed this years outcome substantially and his attitude we saw in 19 would have only gotten worse, poison for a team incapable of real success and needing to rebuild. This was the best result for both parties, Brady got to go to a very solid team and bring in folks who wanted to go for it all now and the Patriots took their pain now so they can try and rebuild.

It is pure fantasy to think the Patriots could have fielded a team capable of going for it all this year Brady or not and Brady would have entered a new level of hissyfitdom that they could not have. Brady is the best QB of all time but he off the chart hissyfit wise when things and people don't go his way. He was poison for developing players who had to earn his trust. He hasn't been the guy who said his favorite receiver was the open one for many years. He is a primadonna that found a place that worked for him.
That's some really f*cked up rhetoric.

Brady's poison? You have even one instance of this? His teammates, past and present, universally praise him as a leader, player and person.

Poison for developing players? Have you paid attention to anything coming out of Tampa Bay this season? By all accounts Brady has been a tremendous leader on and off the field for all of his teammates. The team collectively has risen to the challenge under Brady's influence. Brady made it work in Tampa Bay. Not the other way around.

You want an example of a poisonous player / teammate... take a look at Rodgers in Green Bay. That choker throws his entire organization under the bus after every postseason exit. Talking about his future in Green Bay being uncertain... he's under contract through 2023. He's a similar excuse maker to Peyton Manning but Rodgers is more malicious in his delivery.
 

festy1986

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
You realize the Patriots never even made Brady an offer to stay don't you? Patriots knew they were screwed and chose wisely to take the pain all at once. Brady staying would not have changed this years outcome substantially and his attitude we saw in 19 would have only gotten worse, poison for a team incapable of real success and needing to rebuild. This was the best result for both parties, Brady got to go to a very solid team and bring in folks who wanted to go for it all now and the Patriots took their pain now so they can try and rebuild.

It is pure fantasy to think the Patriots could have fielded a team capable of going for it all this year Brady or not and Brady would have entered a new level of hissyfitdom that they could not have. Brady is the best QB of all time but he off the chart hissyfit wise when things and people don't go his way. He was poison for developing players who had to earn his trust. He hasn't been the guy who said his favorite receiver was the open one for many years. He is a primadonna that found a place that worked for him.

If Bill did his job as GM then Brady would be here AND we would be superbowl contenders. Bill didnt do his job.

Meanwhile Brady just keeps going to superbowls.
 

Dr Pain

In the Starting Line-Up
That's some really f*cked up rhetoric.

Brady's poison? You have even one instance of this? His teammates, past and present, universally praise him as a leader, player and person.

Poison for developing players? Have you paid attention to anything coming out of Tampa Bay this season? By all accounts Brady has been a tremendous leader on and off the field for all of his teammates. The team collectively has risen to the challenge under Brady's influence. Brady made it work in Tampa Bay. Not the other way around.

You want an example of a poisonous player / teammate... take a look at Rodgers in Green Bay. That choker throws his entire organization under the bus after every postseason exit. Talking about his future in Green Bay being uncertain... he's under contract through 2023. He's a similar excuse maker to Peyton Manning but Rodgers is more malicious in his delivery.
Did you ever notice no other players ever really sat with Brady on the sideline and Josh always looked like a therapist there next to him?
 

Biffins

In the Starting Line-Up
You say, "From 2014 to 2017, he was, and they were good enough to win every year, and they would have if not for the head coach".

This strikes me as rather myopic, since the head coach was the one who constructed and coached the "good enough" roster.

The head coach was the one who prepared the team during the minicamp, training camp, offseason programs, and throughout the season.
The head coach was the one who constructed the game-plans.
The head coach was the one who selected the roster and lineups.
The head coach was the one who coached the team to enough wins to position themselves for a postseason opportunity.

You can't just wrangle together "good enough" talent and throw it on the field and expect it to work. You need preparation, discipline, coaching, schematics, tactics, organization, etc, and the vast majority of that comes via coaching.

It's like saying, "the engine of the car was good enough, but the wheels and windshield were junk, so we just should throw those away and let the engine do its thing".

Your anti-Belichick crusades are as inaccurate as they are annoying, and your truculent, antagonistic demeanor makes you absolutely miserable.

Tampas Bay's head coach(es) did all that for 13 years, yet Arians got on stage and said "it took just one man" to win the NFC championship.

Yeah. So that.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
Are you the one who hates McDaniels so much? But defends beLichick?

You really think McDaniels is ever doing anything of any significance without beLichick's ok?

And I think Brady has proven this season that head coaches, positional coaches and play callers aren't nearly as important as the player(s) on the field. Two more seasons in Tampa Bay and Bruce Arians will be a hall of farmer and Byron Leftwich will be a head coach.

When Laurence Mareney gets drafted, that's obviously Belichick as the final say. But when Laurence Maroney is drafted because his RB coach is Ben McDaniels and Patriots scouts say don't draft this guy, I think it's weird you're trying to downplay the influence and damage of McDaniels.

We started to draft great again exactly when Josh left from 2009-2012 and we started to suck at drafting again exactly when Josh came back from 2013-now.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
When Laurence Mareney gets drafted, that's obviously Belichick as the final say. But when Laurence Maroney is drafted because his RB coach is Ben McDaniels and Patriots scouts say don't draft this guy, I think it's weird you're trying to downplay the influence and damage of McDaniels.

We started to draft great again exactly when Josh left from 2009-2012 and we started to suck at drafting again exactly when Josh came back from 2013-now.
Because Belichick is ultimately the GM and it's his job to make the decisions on the team personnel. If McDaniels gave him bad advice, it's Bill's job to assess and make the correct decisions. Also this goes beyond one bad draft. Bill has had bad drafts since 14/15. This is nothing new. Josh is a good OC who has proven he could put together many league leading offenses and win SB's and draft gameplans on the fly when they needed. If he sucks at evaluating talent, then Bill as the GM shouldn't heed his advice, and thats on him if he needs to rely on his OC to make his decisions on offensive players.
 

Tony2046

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Great thread.

- Ty Law. Mistake because there was no nobody waiting. Asante was not ready and both he, Duane Starks and Hobbs were getting roasted all season. The 2005 season was lost due to bad CB play and no youth at LB. He would've also been helpful in 2006 and 2007.
- Adam Vinatieri.
Massive mistake. He kicks in Super Bowl 42 on 4th and 13. Ghost was good, but I never trusted the guy.
- Richard Seymour. Mistake. Could've been useful in 2010 against the Jets. Didn't use the pick until 2011.
- Mike Vrabel. Good trade. He was absolutely done in 2008. No matter how hard he tried, he couldn't get past T's.

2016-
- Chandler Jones.
Mistake especially what they received in return (only a 2nd round pick) as he was worth a 1st. He got better when he left because the Cards unleashed him. People complain he didn't show up in certain games, but he was clearly held back due to scheme. There were many times he was doing the "mush rush" or what I like to call fake rushing the QB. Because BB is always moving around the draft, trading Jones was not the only way they could've got Thuney, Mitchell or insert name. Then there's the Gilmore argument. Both won only one Super Bowl with the Pats so take your pick.

Another great hindsight post from you.

Thank God BB weaseled his way to nine Super Bowl appearances. More than any other HC in NFL history. WTF?
 

Tony2046

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Since you won't see this, you won't mind my saying the unfollow option is the equivalent of pulling the blanket over your own head when you fart. Which you're probably doing right now as opposed to reading my post that you can't see.

Dad joke post fail. Keep trying though.
 

Top