A vote of confidence for the painful philosophy of: "Better to let a player go too early than too late"

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DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
Just saying it's too early to be dissing Belichick, and the philosophy has generally worked out for 20 years that it's better to let a great player go a year early than a year later. Clearly Tom Brady still has gas in the tank; he put up one of his best 4 regular seasons ever in Tampa, and just brought them to his 10th Superbowl appearance. Absolutely incredible. Brady has double-cemented his legacy. Absolutely zero mentions ever again of him being a system QB.

As a reminder we have had Patriot HOF-caliber players leave before and it sucked and was painful, including ones who made Pro Bowls after leaving or even more rings. But the Patriots moved on and continued to be a strong team (next man up), and those players still have fond relationships with the Patriots:
- Ty Law
- Adam Vinatieri
- Richard Seymour
- Mike Vrabel
- Chandler Jones

I guess a case can be made that Brady is a special case and we should have kept him. I don't strongly disagree. But I think if Brady stayed he likely only throws for 24TDs in this offense and we still don't go far, we needed a major rebuild anyways. I'm just saying the system has worked for 20 years, and it will really need likely 4 more years to actually judge Belichick fairly or not. So many here were predicting a 5-11 record 10 months ago, so this past season wasn't a surprise with $30M in dead cap money and 8 covid opt-outs. The biggest issue was Stidham doesn't seem to be the heir apparent so that's the biggest problem. In the past we usually would have a young guy in the waiting before jettisoning the older veteran guy.

 
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sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Re AV, to be fair I don't think the Pats were willing to pay him anything near what the Colts were and they were moving on to Gost as the heir. Also AV had a so-so season in 2005 and wasn't good in the playoff game. So there was a justification for the Pats hesitating on it. Like Brady he went to a place where he could succeed and he did.

Pats don't have a QB right now.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
Re AV, to be fair I don't think the Pats were willing to pay him anything near what the Colts were and they were moving on to Gost as the heir. Also AV had a so-so season in 2005 and wasn't good in the playoff game. Like Brady he went to a place where he could succeed and he did.

Yeah AV didn't look great (like Brady didn't look fantastic in 2019) and the Pats moved on with Ghost and AV won another ring in Indy. It's so weird and jolting that it happened now with Brady but this stuff has been happening for 20 years. I loved Vinatieri.

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sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Yeah AV didn't look great (like Brady didn't look fantastic in 2019) and the Pats moved on with Ghost and AV won another ring in Indy. It's so weird and jolting that it happened now with Brady but this stuff has been happening for 20 years. I loved Vinatieri.

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Me too.

I'll always believe that Bill would have sent Vinatieri out to kick that FG in the Super Bowl instead of going for 4th and 13.
 

crawhammer

On the Game Day Roster
I guess a case can be made that Brady is a special case and we should have kept him. I don't strongly disagree. But I think if Brady stayed he likely only throws for 24TDs in this offense and we still don't go far, we needed a major rebuild anyways. I'm just saying the system has worked for 20 years, and it will really need like 4 more years to actually judge Belichick fairly or not. So many here were predicting a 5-11 record, 10 months ago, so this past season wasn't a surprise with $30M in dead cap money and 8 covid opt-outs. The biggest issue was Stidham doesn't seem to be the heir apparent so that's the biggest problem. In the past we usually would have a young guy in the waiting before jettisoning the older veteran guy.
You're making excuses and rationalizations. It's ok to acknowledge that Belichick got it wrong.

You just got through saying the notion of Brady ever being a system quarterback is ridiculous then you say the system worked for 20 years. Brady made it work until he couldn't from 2005 to 2013 when he had an awful supporting cast (2006, 2013) or the defenses weren't good enough to finish the job (2007, 2011). From 2014 to 2017, he was, and they were good enough to win every year, and they would have if not for the head coach. They stole one in 2018. In 2019 the lack talent caught up with the team. This year Brady was no longer there and they went in the toilet. Brady got squeezed out with no succession plan at quarterback which falls on the individual (bb) making such decisions and the individuals (R&J) allowing said individual to make them. They f*cked up and Brady is making them pay. Tampa Bay thanks them for the motivation.

Do you have to see Brady hoisting his 7th Lombardi Trophy before you'll just admit the obvious?
 

PatsDeb

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I would vote for this philosophy for every player ever except Tom Brady. We should have pulled out all the stops to keep him for two more years, as is painfully clear now. Nothing we can do but go forward, however, so I'll start putting my mind towards trying to get excited about what the Pats are going to do at QB this spring.
 

brdmaverick

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I love Tom Brady, enjoy watching him play, and have been rooting for the Bucs.

Even with that said, I STILL think the Pats and Brady did what was best for both of them. It was clear it was time for both parties to move on. No need for revisionist history just because Brady is having success.

When Ray Bourque won a championship with the Avalanche did Bruins fans say "what a big mistake, we should have kept him!!!" No, because they weren't contenders. I hate to say it, but the Pats would have not have been contenders even with Brady.

So while I'm sure it stings a little for some, the Pats are rebuilding as expected and Brady is helping a contender as expected. It's all good.
 

Dr Pain

In the Starting Line-Up
You're making excuses and rationalizations. It's ok to acknowledge that Belichick got it wrong.
Brady being in New England in 2020 would have resulted a few more wins however it would have ended like 2019 at best, a one and done post season. The team was in salary cap hell. Brady's attitude would have continued to decline as they could not afford what he wanted them to get. 2020 worked out well for Brady and for the Patriots who took their pain this year all at once.

Really does anyone think that Brady being with the Patriots in 2020 would have made up for all the problems the team had this year?
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
I love Tom Brady, enjoy watching him play, and have been rooting for the Bucs.

Even with that said, I STILL think the Pats and Brady did what was best for both of them. It was clear it was time for both parties to move on. No need for revisionist history just because Brady is having success.

When Ray Bourque won a championship with the Avalanche did Bruins fans say "what a big mistake, we should have kept him!!!" No, because they weren't contenders. I hate to say it, but the Pats would have not have been contenders even with Brady.

So while I'm sure it stings a little for some, the Pats are rebuilding as expected and Brady is helping a contender as expected. It's all good.

This is how I feel too. I don't think it was a mistake by Belichick. I think looking at the situation in 2018, they foresaw a total mess of a cap situation. Tom Brady here would have been maybe a 9-7 or 10-6 team and early playoff exit. Brady did what was best for him to go to a loaded team in Tampa but the Pats wouldn't have won a ring in 2020 if he stayed.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
When it's the greatest player of all time it's a stupid philosophy. I don't care what anybody says, Pats fans would have looked back HAPPILY if they got a good Brady this year and then either next year or the year after they needed to endure a broken Brady on his way out. You think Lakers fans, the winningest franchise since the 80's in their sport look back and think "gee it sucks we stuck with Kobe a year or two late and had to see him retire here". Not a single one of them does.

Brady earned the right to get every single opportunity he had until the wheels fell off. If they did, then we finish the year and if he wants to fight it then we can cut bait, but you give him that. If the Pats rebuild and fix the issues they have this off season.... who is our QB? You are spending a first rounder on a lottery pick if you want a decent prospect... You are trading assets for the rebuild to get Stafford or Watson or whoever.... Why not bite the bullet and grit through this year and then just rebuild around Brady. If he declines, we can draft someone else the next year.
 

dreighver

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
You're making excuses and rationalizations. It's ok to acknowledge that Belichick got it wrong.

You just got through saying the notion of Brady ever being a system quarterback is ridiculous then you say the system worked for 20 years. Brady made it work until he couldn't from 2005 to 2013 when he had an awful supporting cast (2006, 2013) or the defenses weren't good enough to finish the job (2007, 2011). From 2014 to 2017, he was, and they were good enough to win every year, and they would have if not for the head coach. They stole one in 2018. In 2019 the lack talent caught up with the team. This year Brady was no longer there and they went in the toilet. Brady got squeezed out with no succession plan at quarterback which falls on the individual (bb) making such decisions and the individuals (R&J) allowing said individual to make them. They f*cked up and Brady is making them pay. Tampa Bay thanks them for the motivation.

Do you have to see Brady hoisting his 7th Lombardi Trophy before you'll just admit the obvious?

You say, "From 2014 to 2017, he was, and they were good enough to win every year, and they would have if not for the head coach".

This strikes me as rather myopic, since the head coach was the one who constructed and coached the "good enough" roster.

The head coach was the one who prepared the team during the minicamp, training camp, offseason programs, and throughout the season.
The head coach was the one who constructed the game-plans.
The head coach was the one who selected the roster and lineups.
The head coach was the one who coached the team to enough wins to position themselves for a postseason opportunity.

You can't just wrangle together "good enough" talent and throw it on the field and expect it to work. You need preparation, discipline, coaching, schematics, tactics, organization, etc, and the vast majority of that comes via coaching.

It's like saying, "the engine of the car was good enough, but the wheels and windshield were junk, so we just should throw those away and let the engine do its thing".

Your anti-Belichick crusades are as inaccurate as they are annoying, and your truculent, antagonistic demeanor makes you absolutely miserable.
 
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Ross12

Moderator
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
Kind of wonder at times if Bill expected more of a second-year jump from Stidham than he ultimately got. Didn't like what he saw and penned Cam to a deal in July with what little bit of cap space he had left.
 

Shockt327

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
It was mutual; if NE was still in the hunt, Brady would still be here and Bill would still want him. Both want to win. The problem is that after the last 3 SB wins, the playmakers are old & cupboards are empty on young talent. This same kind of issue popped after their first 3 SBs; and Belichick wiffed on guys like Maroney & Chad Jackson in 2006, but hit on Randy Moss & Welker the next year and kept an otherwise veteran team in the hunt. Well, that same kind scenario popped up again; the drafts sucked once again BUT this time the veteran acquisitions like Josh Gordon, and Antonio Brown and Mohammed Sanu completely bombed too. That's the issue. That's why both Bill and Brady were ready to move on, that's why Bill let Brady hit the open market, that's why Bill never made an offer, and that's why Tom never asked for one when he called them to say goodbye.
 

haripi2

On the Game Day Roster
I think as a pats fan I am happy that I can still root for brady and gronk this superbowl.

If brady had been here , we would have either missed the playoffs or eliminated in we round and I would need to see mahomes take on aaron Roger's.

I prefer mahomes vs brady in Tampa gear.

It also allows us to take a temporary reset and look forward to next season with a lot of unknowns.

If we can string a competitive team , the future is filled with hope. We are not used to losing and hence feel out of place considering a 2 -3 year rebuild every franchise goes through that and we were lucky for 2 decades. Let's see if we can get lucky again?
 

VrabelJr

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
It’s not just about letting a player go too soon. It’s about having to pay that player an amount that makes it impossible to field a championship contending team.
 

Hyped

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Comments:

1.) Bonus points to @DropKickFlutie for not working "John Carrol U" or "McDaniels" in his post somehow. LOL.

2.) I agree....99.9% of the time you let a guy walk a year early.

3.) I agree...we shouldn't have let Brady go even if we wouldn't have won a Superbowl this year (and probably next year) with him on the roster.I'd have preferred to see him wind down his career here...Larry Bird/Kevin McHale style... BUT if that came with Mahomes winning 3 Superbowls in a row... NOT SURE I like that more than I like seeing Brady take his best shot in 2 weeks. Hmmmm....

4.) Tom Brady is the ULTIMATE outlier.....what he is doing SHOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE. If he fails to reach the SB next year...and doesn't win another SB for the 2020/2021 seasons....he still reaches the Superbowl 50% of the time and wins it 30% of the time! Jesus Henry Christ!!!!!!!!
 

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