A little early, but: should the Patriots try to re-sign Wes Welker?

[ATippett56]

Cmon Ivan how many 6'6, 320lb guys who are athletic enough to run with 4.6-4.8 260-280 lb guys who are allowed to use their hands. There are a lot fewer of them than 5'10-6'2 guys who can run fast and have good hand eye coordination.

Brandon Gorin, a seventh round draft pick from the 2001 NFL Draft by the San Diego Chargers, under the tutelage of Dante Scarnecchia started 10 regular season games and 3 playoff games at right tackle during the 2004 NFL Season.

 

[ATippett56]

Cmon Ivan how many 6'6, 320lb guys who are athletic enough to run with 4.6-4.8 260-280 lb guys who are allowed to use their hands. There are a lot fewer of them than 5'10-6'2 guys who can run fast and have good hand eye coordination.

How many offensive right tackles do the New England Patriots currently have under contract for the 2013 NFL Season?

How many wide receivers do the New England Patriots currently have under contract for the 2013 NFL Season?

 

[supafly]

You can forget about Danny Amendola.

Franchise tag looks inevitable for Amendola | ProFootballTalk

Amendola still needs to prove himself durable in my opinion. He hasn't gotten off to that hot of a start in that department so far in his NFL career.

He could be great, and if I were the Rams I would certainly try to keep him, but I'd never throw big, long-term money at him...at least not yet anyway.

 

[Deus Irae]

You can forget about Danny Amendola.

Franchise tag looks inevitable for Amendola | ProFootballTalk

Amendola has also only played in 42 of a possible 64 games during his 4 year career and, with 196 catches, has a career which is good for just a little over 1.5 years of WWW in New England. He's a poor man's Welker, not "the next Welker". The irony, of course, is that the Rams are willing to pay the tag price for the lesser receiver, and people here are suggesting that the superior receiver should take much less in remunerations.

 

[supafly]

you think they should pay a guy who has played parts of a couple games 8 million a year

This is a growing trend these days for patsfans posters, and probably even Patriot fans in general. While I would love to see Talib resigned, I really would not want to see them go much higher than about 7 million per year myself, absolutely no higher than 7.5 on average, although the high CB market in general will certainly almost guarantee that someone will offer him more. If not for the market of overpriced CB's, I wouldn't even want to give him that. If not for the overpriced market, 6 million average would be my bottom line number. As mayoclinic has mentioned, incentives could come into play heavily, which could work for both sides.

While Talib has certainly factored into the equation, I wonder if it's nearly as much as everyone assumes? More importantly, I wonder what Belichick thinks about the popular thought that Talib has totally changed the makeup of the secondary?

Dennard should be one of the starters there on the outside next year for sure. The question of course will be whether or not Belichick feels that Talib was the straw that stirred the change of the secondary makeup, or whether he thinks that there were many factors involved (my theory and one that I have a feeling he'd agree with). It certainly isn't out of the equation to think that we will allow Talib to pass and once again try to find a suitable CB on the other side, either via the draft again, FA, or even possibly Dowling.

I'd love to have him back, and I hope that he doesn't have his sights on the moon as far as financial compensation. If he does, he will not be returning...4th round pick or not, it won't matter.

All in all, I have a feeling that many are overvaluing Talib's contributions to the resurgence of the secondary play. Only time will tell what happens, but I certainly would not place his worth over that of Wes Welker..

 

[ATippett56]

This is a growing trend these days for patsfans posters, and probably even Patriot fans in general. While I would love to see Talib resigned, I really would not want to see them go much higher than about 7 million per year myself, absolutely no higher than 7.5 on average, although the high CB market in general will certainly almost guarantee that someone will offer him more. If not for the market of overpriced CB's, I wouldn't even want to give him that. If not for the overpriced market, 6 million average would be my bottom line number. As mayoclinic has mentioned, incentives could come into play heavily, which could work for both sides.

Not even close on either account.

NFL Free Agent Master List '13 - Free Agency Update - Rotoworld.com

NFL Free Agent Master List '13
Thursday, January 03, 2013

With access to NFL Players Association data, Rotoworld can generate the most accurate free agent list on the internet. The players are ranked in order of how we see them being valued on the open market.

NFL Free Agent Master List '13 - Free Agency Update - Rotoworld.com

Cornerbacks

Aqib Talib
Brent Grimes
Sean Smith
Chris Houston
Cary Williams
Derek Cox
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
E.J. Biggers
Mike Jenkins
Bradley Fletcher

 

[Snake Eyes]

Another load of crap!

Tom Brady survived with the following players at the right tackle position:

Tom Ashworth
Brandon Gorin
Nick Kaczur

There's a world of difference between finding someone who could fill a position as opposed to someone who can dominate it.

Also, just because we've been able to make do with scrubs in the past doesnt mean you want to have a GOAT QB protected by them if you can help it.

 

[mgteich]

Did Talib make THE difference? Signing him allowed Arrington to move to his natural spot of nickel and allowed McCourty to move to safety. When playing Talib covered the other team's top receiver.

And yes, the other part of the difference in the secondary was the ability of Dennard to step up, after Cole stepped up before he was injured.

Belichick has decisions to make at corner. However, four corners are free agents: Talib, Arrington, Cole and Martin. It is extremely difficult to go into free agency and find 2-4 corners.

This is a growing trend these days for patsfans posters, and probably even Patriot fans in general. While I would love to see Talib resigned, I really would not want to see them go much higher than about 7 million per year myself, absolutely no higher than 7.5 on average, although the high CB market in general will certainly almost guarantee that someone will offer him more. If not for the market of overpriced CB's, I wouldn't even want to give him that. If not for the overpriced market, 6 million average would be my bottom line number. As mayoclinic has mentioned, incentives could come into play heavily, which could work for both sides.

While Talib has certainly factored into the equation, I wonder if it's nearly as much as everyone assumes? More importantly, I wonder what Belichick thinks about the popular thought that Talib has totally changed the makeup of the secondary?

Dennard should be one of the starters there on the outside next year for sure. The question of course will be whether or not Belichick feels that Talib was the straw that stirred the change of the secondary makeup, or whether he thinks that there were many factors involved (my theory and one that I have a feeling he'd agree with). It certainly isn't out of the equation to think that we will allow Talib to pass and once again try to find a suitable CB on the other side, either via the draft again, FA, or even possibly Dowling.

I'd love to have him back, and I hope that he doesn't have his sights on the moon as far as financial compensation. If he does, he will not be returning...4th round pick or not, it won't matter.

All in all, I have a feeling that many are overvaluing Talib's contributions to the resurgence of the secondary play. Only time will tell what happens, but I certainly would not place his worth over that of Wes Welker..

 

[ATippett56]

There's a world of difference between finding someone who could fill a position as opposed to someone who can dominate it.

Also, just because we've been able to make do with scrubs in the past doesnt mean you want to have a GOAT QB protected by them if you can help it.

There exists alternatives to severely overpaying a 29 year old right offensive tackle in unrestricted free agency with chronic back issues.

Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

 

[ATippett56]

Also, just because we've been able to make do with scrubs in the past doesnt mean you want to have a GOAT QB protected by them if you can help it.

I guess a third round right offensive tackle selected in the 2005 NFL Draft wasn't good enough for the highest scoring offense in NFL history.

 

[Snake Eyes]

There exists alternatives to severely overpaying a 29 year old right offensive tackle in unrestricted free agency with chronic back issues.

Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

I dont want to. For a while I've been advocating throwing a 2nd round tender on him in the hopes that some team would grab him and we could use that pick to restock the position.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I guess a third round right tackle selected in the 2005 NFL Draft wasn't good enough for the highest scoring offense in NFL history.

Yeah, and we almost made it to the SB in 06 with Reche Caldwell but I'm thinking we would be better off with a better receiver.

 

[Huckleberry1]

This is a growing trend these days for patsfans posters, and probably even Patriot fans in general. While I would love to see Talib resigned, I really would not want to see them go much higher than about 7 million per year myself, absolutely no higher than 7.5 on average, although the high CB market in general will certainly almost guarantee that someone will offer him more. If not for the market of overpriced CB's, I wouldn't even want to give him that. If not for the overpriced market, 6 million average would be my bottom line number. As mayoclinic has mentioned, incentives could come into play heavily, which could work for both sides.

While Talib has certainly factored into the equation, I wonder if it's nearly as much as everyone assumes? More importantly, I wonder what Belichick thinks about the popular thought that Talib has totally changed the makeup of the secondary?



Dennard should be one of the starters there on the outside next year for sure. The question of course will be whether or not Belichick feels that Talib was the straw that stirred the change of the secondary makeup, or whether he thinks that there were many factors involved (my theory and one that I have a feeling he'd agree with). It certainly isn't out of the equation to think that we will allow Talib to pass and once again try to find a suitable CB on the other side, either via the draft again, FA, or even possibly Dowling.

I'd love to have him back, and I hope that he doesn't have his sights on the moon as far as financial compensation. If he does, he will not be returning...4th round pick or not, it won't matter.

All in all, I have a feeling that many are overvaluing Talib's contributions to the resurgence of the secondary play. Only time will tell what happens, but I certainly would not place his worth over that of Wes Welker..

I agree completely. I like Talib and feel like he has helped their secondaqry but his contributions have been way overblown. If people are right that his value is going to be 8-10 on the open market then there is no way Belichick is going to re-sign him. I seriously doubt that the Patriots go over 6 million a year for a guy who has only played a few games for them.

Talib is good but he's not Revis and has never proven himself to be a shutdown corner in the NFL. If he does then he'll be worth the money people are talking about, until then someone will simply be overpaying him based on wishful thinking, and that is how teams blow their cap, not by signing players who have proven their worth.

 

[ATippett56]

However, four corners are free agents: Talib, Arrington, Cole and Martin. It is extremely difficult to go into free agency and find 2-4 corners.

You do realize that Cole and Martin signed one year veteran minimum contracts. The aforementioned two cornerbacks weren't exactly hot commodities in the unrestricted free agent market.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I dont want to. For a while I've been advocating throwing a 2nd round tender on him in the hopes that some team would grab him and we could use that pick to restock the position.

A 2nd round tender is a good idea. I see the Patriots offering him around 5-6 million a year but not much more, his back issues are too serious to go big money imo. I can see the patriots offering him 22-24 for 4 with 10-12 guaranteed. I doubt they go above it. That may not be enough to get a deal but they aren't going to 8 million per for him.

 

[ATippett56]

Yeah, and we almost made it to the SB in 06 with Reche Caldwell but I'm thinking we would be better off with a better receiver.

Stay on point. Nick Kaczur was hardly a scrub and was the starting right tackle on the 2007 New England Patriots offense.

The New England Patriots have a proven history of selecting and developing offensive tackles in the first three rounds of the NFL Draft since calendar year 2001.

 

[ATippett56]

For a while I've been advocating throwing a 2nd round tender on him in the hopes that some team would grab him and we could use that pick to restock the position.

What the heck are you talking about?

 

[Huckleberry1]

What the heck are you talking about?

Does the 2nd round tender still exist for UFA, or did it bite the dust in the last CBA?

 

[ATippett56]

Does the 2nd round tender still exist for UFA, or did it bite the dust in the last CBA?

For unrestricted free agents, it's the franchise tag or nothing.

1st round, 2nd round, original round tenders only exist for restricted free agents.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Are you so enamored with Wes Welker that you think he's irreplaceable. He's was an UDFA. The guy who is compared to him most often, Danny Amendola was and UDFA. The other big name slot receiver in the league, Victor Cruz, was an UDFA. And a guy who showed a lot of speed, quickness and explosiveness was a 7th round pick...and people were surprised we took him. Believe me Ivan. these guys are out there. Don't tell me that you think that without Welker this offense will crumble.

I know it Ken, it's just like all those idiots who shine Brady's knob. Christ he's just a 6th round draft pick who has no athleticism but can throw accurately, and there are 8th graders who can do that. I mean hell, people were surprised we took him. And don't tell me their offense would crumble without him with all these weapons. They barely need him with their 2 TE offense and this run game and Mallett could easily replace him. Give him 2 years 5 million with 2 guaranteed when he comes up again, he'll be ancient and he should take one for the team anyways. Besides that they will need the money to re-sign Ebner and Bequette.