PostGame Thread 2024 OFFICIAL POST GAME Thread - Patriots fall to Miami 34-15

[Thelonious]

Him being a POC isn't going to protect him from being fired. I refuse to believe it.

Likely not. That has nothing to do, however, with my objection to government (or league)-mandated racial discrimination. We were discussing the Rooney Rule. Mayo was hired because he charmedd an old fool on vacation. Whether any of that tendresse had anything to do with the warm-glow of woke virtue-signalling, I have no idea.

 

[KCSVEN]

Barmore absolutely demolished this WR, not DB, trying to block him. Playing hard late in the game, Nasty.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Not sure if it was discussed, but media noticed Jerod Mayo constantly complaining to the officials all game long and CBS showed it as well right before the half. In fact, Jacoby Brissett was seen walking out to midfield during a TV timeout to complain to the officials...he's not even playing! Other coaches were also seen complaining to officials rather than coaching their own players.

Sorry, but I maintain my prediction that Mayo is one and done.

 

[archstanton543]

Not sure if it was discussed, but media noticed Jerod Mayo constantly complaining to the officials all game long and CBS showed it as well right before the half. In fact, Jacoby Brissett was seen walking out to midfield during a TV timeout to complain to the officials...he's not even playing! Other coaches were also seen complaining to officials rather than coaching their own players.

Sorry, but I maintain my prediction that Mayo is one and done.

So the problem is that he was complaining to the refs (who were clearly jobbing them until the game was out of hand)? BB used to scream at them all the time.

 

[KCSVEN]

Finished looking at All-22
Some of my review lined up with PFF
Worst defensive players per PFF:
Dugger: 33.4
Takitaki: 42.6
Ekuale: 55.3
Hawkins: 57.1

Top 6 were: Ellis, Tavai, Jones and White, Pettus, Gonzalez and agree all those guys played overall well.

I agree completely, all but Hawkins were pretty worthless, Tkitaki and Ekuale might be the 2 worst starters in the NFL at their positions. Duggar was not just slow, he had mental mistake after mental mistake. Horrible, yet he played 97% of snaps?

-Pettus continues to be the best safety, only played 13 snaps or 19%. STUPID. The announcer tried to blame Pettus for not dropping deep enough on 1 play, he was wrong. Pettus was responsible for the TE in case they blocked and went out for a pass. The same type of play Duggar let in for a TD as Duggar had the same responsibility on that play but he saw the TE block, looked away and then the TE got open over the middle before Duggar realized he was no longer blocking.
Dell Pettus has played well in every game I've reviewed, he needs to be the most plays of any safety not the least. He does his job, which you can't say about many.
-Gonzalez gave up 2 completions to Hill, not the 1 I saw reported, which is still solid. He's a good player, as everyone knows.
-Elliss showed up again in this game, played really well.
-Schooler might lead the team in sacks by year end,
-Ngakpue is still a complete non-factor.
-Barmore looked strong but slow and had issues with getting pads down, and then the 4th quarter looked like the old Barmore, was just a beast on several plays. Dude might have turned a corner, excited to see him next week.

On Offense PFF had these as the worst
Jacobs: 22.6
Boutte: 45.1
Lowe: 51.7

Top 3 starters were Hooper, Douglas, and Maye

-Jacobs was exposed in this game as I said he would be whenever he faces a top pass rusher. He's fine against an average rusher.
-Boutte just did not get the separation like in previous games.
-Lowe showed up with the penalties, though the holding call on the screen was a terrible call by the official. The guy he was blocking lost balance and fell, Lowe was not holding. He was nowhere near as bad as Jacobs, but had a few plays where beat too quickly. Below average game for him but not a terrible game.
-Gibson hit the hole more decisively than Rhamondre who seemed more tentative and slower to get to the hole. I can see why Gibson got more snaps than normal.

PFF pressures (not always accurate but ballparks what happenned)
Jacobs: 9 with 6 leading to hurries
Jordan: 4
Lowe: 3
Onwenu and Brown: 1 each
-For comparison the top blocking line is the Broncos, had 9 pressures and 1 guy with 3. Double the # of pressures the Broncos gave up and it was a bad week for the Broncos line.
The last 4 weeks before Broncos gave up 4 pressures each of the last 4 games.

Pressures last 5 games
Patriots: 18,14,13,17,11
Broncos: 9,4,4,4,4

-Jordan continues to struggle with picking up stunts, been an issue all year and continues.

I was thinking Maye played his worst game of the year but after tape review he looked pretty good. We know about the fumble, the pick was just thrown too short, he did not get enough on it, needed it about 3 yards further upfield. Just trying to do too much.
But very few plays where he made the wrong read or a bad throw. I was surprised how good the tape was, expected it to be average at best.

Patriot LB's were poor at cutting off the passing lanes on the incuts, Waddle, Hill, Smith just crucified them on quick, short passes over the middle. Tua made 2 tight window throws there but most were pretty easy throws just waiting for the wr to clear the LB.

 

[Vindicate]

Finished looking at All-22
Some of my review lined up with PFF
Worst defensive players per PFF:
Dugger: 33.4
Takitaki: 42.6
Ekuale: 55.3
Hawkins: 57.1

Top 6 were: Ellis, Tavai, Jones and White, Pettus, Gonzalez and agree all those guys played overall well.

I agree completely, all but Hawkins were pretty worthless, Tkitaki and Ekuale might be the 2 worst starters in the NFL at their positions. Duggar was not just slow, he had mental mistake after mental mistake. Horrible, yet he played 97% of snaps?

-Pettus continues to be the best safety, only played 13 snaps or 19%. STUPID. The announcer tried to blame Pettus for not dropping deep enough on 1 play, he was wrong. Pettus was responsible for the TE in case they blocked and went out for a pass. The same type of play Duggar let in for a TD as he Duggar had the same responsibility on that play but he saw the TE block, looked away and then the TE got open over the middle before Duggar realized he was no longer blocking.
Dell Pettus has played well in every game I've reviewed, he needs to be the most plays of any safety not the least. He does his job, which you can't say about many.
-Gonzalez gave up 2 completions to Hill, not the 1 I saw reported, which is still solid. He's a good player, as everyone knows.
-Elliss showed up again in this game, played really well.
-Schooler might lead the team in sacks by year end,
-Ngakpue is still a complete non-factor.
-Barmore looked strong but slow and had issues with getting pads down, and then the 4th quarter looked like the old Barmore, was just a beast on several plays. Dude might have turned a corner, excited to see him next week.

On Offense PFF had these as the worst
Jacobs: 22.6
Boutte: 45.1
Lowe: 51.7

Top 3 starters were Hooper, Douglas, and Maye

Jacobs was exposed in this game as I said he would be whenever he faces a top pass rusher. He's fine against an average rusher.
-Boutte just did not get the separation like in previous games.
-Lowe showed up with the penalties, though the holding call on the screen was a terrible call by the official. The guy he was blocking lost balance and fell, Lowe was not holding. He was nowhere near as bad as Jacobs, but had a few plays where beat too quickly. Below average game for him but not a terrible game.
-Gibson hit the hole more decisively than Rhamondre who seemed more tentative and slower to get to the hole. I cans ee why Gibson got more snaps than normal.

PFF pressures (not always accurate but ballparks what happenned)
Jacobs: 9 with 6 leading to hurries
Jordan: 4
Lowe: 3
Onwenu and Brown: 1 each
-For comparison the top blocking line is the Broncos, had 9 pressures and 1 guy with 3. Double the # of pressures the Broncos gave up and it was a bad week for the Broncos line.
The last 4 weeks before Broncos gave up 4 pressures each of the last 4 games.

Pressures last 5 games
Patriots: 18,14,13,17,11
Broncos: 9,4,4,4,4

-Jordan continues to struggle with picking up stunts, been an issue all year and continues.

I was thinking Maye played his worst game of the year but after tape review he looked pretty good. We know about the fumble, the pick was just thrown too short, he did not get enough on it, needed it about 3 yards further upfield. Just trying to do too much.
But very few plays where he made the wrong read or a bad throw. I was surprised how good the tape was, expected it to be average at best.

Patriot LB's were poor at cutting off the passing lanes on the incuts, Waddle, Hill, Smith just crucified them on quick, short passes over the middle. Tua made 2 tight window throws there but most were pretty easy throws just waiting for the wr to clear the LB.

I support you posting this in your own thread, should you be interested! I'd hate for some good talking points and analysis to be drowned out by the..
Uhhh... Groaning and testiness of the post-game thread

 

[KCSVEN]

I support you posting this in your own thread, should you be interested! I'd hate for some good talking points and analysis to be drowned out by the..
Uhhh... Groaning and testiness of the post-game thread

The games have been pretty bad and, honestly. it seems like it's the same thing every week at this point. Same players suck, same players are good etc.
I was posting on its own thread the first few weeks and if some week has some new insights then I might do that but for a few weeks now I feel like I could almost copy and paste the previous week's analysis.

 

[jdlboot14]

Finished looking at All-22
Some of my review lined up with PFF
Worst defensive players per PFF:
Dugger: 33.4
Takitaki: 42.6
Ekuale: 55.3
Hawkins: 57.1

Thanks for proving with science what I have been seeing just from the game...
Dugger has been a horrible liability. Taki is terrible. Rham has been just bad, slow, indecisive & sideways.

Answer: Peppers, play Schooler more, maybe Roy is better, play Sow at RT, call up Harris for RB3, start Gibson.

 

[Mike the Brit]

The games have been pretty bad and, honestly. it seems like it's the same thing every week at this point. Same players suck, same players are good etc.
I was posting on its own thread the first few weeks and if some week has some new insights then I might do that but for a few weeks now I feel like I could almost copy and paste the previous week's analysis.

KCSVEN

If it's any encouragement, I read your posts very carefully every week, and, while the overall message is depressing (I'm full of admiration that you can watch some of this stuff more than once) I always have a lot of questions.

This week Ellis seems to have been one of the less bad defensive players. But I've seen him missing tackles and not being able to cover. Do you think he's on the way up? Just had a good week?

Your comments on the coaching, which, to my eyes, seemed terrible on both sides of the ball, would be much appreciated.

On defense, it seemed obvious that Waddle and Smith could only be so effective because the Patriots were caught completely off balance.

On offense, I can understand Jacobs being beaten one-on-one by Robinson, but letting him go completely just because he was lined up out wide, and not stopping him even with help from the tight end looks like a massive coaching failure to me.

I'm a Stevenson partisan, but I felt that he was being forced to run up the middle when the defense was expecting it and the line was stacked. So if he looked a bit hesitant, it was because he was looking for a way out of the lousy situations AVP was putting him in. The passivity and negativity of AVP's play design and play calling was striking. It only succeeded by accident when AVP called a run on second-and-very-long and Gibson got to within a yard of a first down

The Miami backs are fast and agile, and they were being encouraged to run to the outside. By contrast, neither Hasty nor Gibson have those qualities. To be honest, I'd rather have Marcus Jones as a third-down back.

Thank you again for your work.

 

[KCSVEN]

KCSVEN

If it's any encouragement, I read your posts very carefully every week, and, while the overall message is depressing (I'm full of admiration that you can watch some of this stuff more than once) I always have a lot of questions.

This week Ellis seems to have been one of the less bad defensive players. But I've seen him missing tackles and not being able to cover. Do you think he's on the way up? Just had a good week?


Thank you again for your work.

Appreciate it, thanks.

Ellis is up and down. Last week (or week before) he was all over the place early in the game and then disappeared, was easily blocked etc. I think he excels chasing the ball carrier in space so when those plays happen, he excels. Miami offense lent itself for him being in space I think. I dd not start reviewing defensive tape until 3 weeks ago so hard to tell where he's at from before.

I'm not sure Stevensen, a power runner, is the best back for a zone running, read the block, cut it up, type of offense but I also don't think some of the lineman have the agility to play that style either. Gibson's style is better for that but he's just an OK back. At least his style fits.

This is my main problem with AVP. He has a system. He doesn't take the players he has and put in a system to maximize their talents. With the right players AVP and his system would be good enough. Too many times you see a pulling guard or tackle followed by and unblocked rusher into the gap that the pulling lineman vacated and then hitting the rb in the backfield because the lineman on the side of the puller is supposed to somehow chip that guy that has all the leverage.
Since Rhamonde is not quick, he doesn't outrun that guy to the opposite side and cuts back into him too much. Gibson is a little quicker and can sometime beat that free'd up lineman. But the Oline is not agile enough to ever make that chip. Yet he calls that play all the time.

It's like when he ran the play action naked bootleg where they did not block the lineman on the end of the line and he blew up Jacoby every time. It has worked with Maye because he can outrun that guy but he only called it with Jacoby because that's a core play in his "system" even though Jacoby couldn't run it,
DD is quick, get him in motion so he can catch a DB off balance. Polk can't separate, get him in motion to give him a chance to get the DB off balance. You have a running QB and have designed zero QB runs this year.
It is like they don't game plan for the other teams defense, they just run the system, but don't have the wr, rb or lineman that fit that system. Honesty, Maye is great, but this is not the system to maximize him either.

I will say there are players that just do stupid things on this team ALL THE TIME. On offense and defense. Are they badly coached or just bad players?
Having the WIORST skill players, and by far the WORST offensive line and having a bad, if not one of the worst, LB group is not going to be easy to coach.
Many of these guys were cut from multiple teams, so they couldn't be coached up elsewhere so hard to say on overall coaching.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I don't think Maye and Jones are anything alike. Most of Mayes picks have been out of desperation, trying to turn nothing into something. Jones forced ugly passes that were easily picked off. There is very little similarity between the two other than they both have played for the Pats. As for teams having more film and can game plan better. I have seen enough off script, side arm, throwing back across the body in air from him like a certain QB in Kansas City does to not worry too much about game planning for him because the NFL hasn't done but so good with regards to shutting Mahomes down and making him a nonfactor in a game.

Maye just needs to learn to let plays go when the risk to reward is too great, I think he can easily be taught that. The tools are there and its obvious, he just has to not feel like he must save this trash team every play.

Are you sure you're remembering "1st 7-8 games Mac Jones," though? He was much more accurate with the same pocket time and pressure rate, but I sensed he was a ticking time bomb with that dui and nickname of "MacEnroe." His INT's were more reasonable back then. I do really like what I see regarding Maye's poise, but it's early, and there have been plenty of mistakes, but that INT was ugly. I'm gonna wait until year 3 to really make any overall judgments either way.

 

[Ross12]

Appreciate it, thanks.

Ellis is up and down. Last week (or week before) he was all over the place early in the game and then disappeared, was easily blocked etc. I think he excels chasing the ball carrier in space so when those plays happen, he excels. Miami offense lent itself for him being in space I think. I dd not start reviewing defensive tape until 3 weeks ago so hard to tell where he's at from before.

I'm not sure Stevensen, a power runner, is the best back for a zone running, read the block, cut it up, type of offense but I also don't think some of the lineman have the agility to play that style either. Gibson's style is better for that but he's just an OK back. At least his style fits.

This is my main problem with AVP. He has a system. He doesn't take the players he has and put in a system to maximize their talents. With the right players AVP and his system would be good enough. Too many times you see a pulling guard or tackle followed by and unblocked rusher into the gap that the pulling lineman vacated and then hitting the rb in the backfield because the lineman on the side of the puller is supposed to somehow chip that guy that has all the leverage.
Since Rhamonde is not quick, he doesn't outrun that guy to the opposite side and cuts back into him too much. Gibson is a little quicker and can sometime beat that free'd up lineman. But the Oline is not agile enough to ever make that chip. Yet he calls that play all the time.

It's like when he ran the play action naked bootleg where they did not block the lineman on the end of the line and he blew up Jacoby every time. It has worked with Maye because he can outrun that guy but he only called it with Jacoby because that's a core play in his "system" even though Jacoby couldn't run it,
DD is quick, get him in motion so he can catch a DB off balance. Polk can't separate, get him in motion to give him a chance to get the DB off balance. You have a running QB and have designed zero QB runs this year.
It is like they don't game plan for the other teams defense, they just run the system, but don't have the wr, rb or lineman that fit that system. Honesty, Maye is great, but this is not the system to maximize him either.

I will say there are players that just do stupid things on this team ALL THE TIME. On offense and defense. Are they badly coached or just bad players?
Having the WIORST skill players, and by far the WORST offensive line and having a bad, if not one of the worst, LB group is not going to be easy to coach.
Many of these guys were cut from multiple teams, so they couldn't be coached up elsewhere so hard to say on overall coaching.

Good point. The coaching might be bad, but even if it was average, would they be able to coach up players who are essentially practice squad fodder (if that)?

I’m not convinced that Covington is capable of “average” but the pieces don’t help. Same with AVP really. He’s a decent QB Coach cosplaying as an OC.

 

[captain stone]

Good point. The coaching might be bad, but even if it was average, would they be able to coach up players who are essentially practice squad fodder (if that)?

I’m not convinced that Covington is capable of “average” but the pieces don’t help. Same with AVP really. He’s a decent QB Coach cosplaying as an OC.

As bad as our roster is - and it's really, really Bad - if we had merely league-average NFL coaching, we'd be 6-6 at worst right now and still in the thick of the PO race.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

As bad as our roster is - and it's really, really Bad - if we had merely league-average NFL coaching, we'd be 6-6 at worst right now and still in the thick of the PO race.

 

[lancerman]

As bad as our roster is - and it's really, really Bad - if we had merely league-average NFL coaching, we'd be 6-6 at worst right now and still in the thick of the PO race.

No we would not. Bill Belichick was the coach here last year. Unless you think he was below league average, he had 2 wins at this point last year. Our team sucks. It's either the worst or second worst roster in the NFL. We maybe gave one or two games away, but we also pulled a rabbit out of our ass in two as well.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

-Boutte just did not get the separation like in previous games.

Boutte probably played as well as he can, the other team made the effort to stop him. The announcers mentioned a few times that Ramsey was assigned to Boutte. The vast majority of teams number 1 corner can take out the Pats best receiver if that is the strategy. This is especially noticeable when there are no other options that are open.

 

[Ring 6]

Barmore absolutely demolished this DB. Plating hard late in the game, Nasty.

Why is Barmore blocking on defense? Wouldn’t we want him to go demolish the ball carrier instead of laying on top of a blocker?

 

[Ring 6]

Boutte probably played as well as he can, the other team made the effort to stop him. The announcers mentioned a few times that Ramsey was assigned to Boutte. The vast majority of teams number 1 corner can take out the Pats best receiver if that is the strategy. This is especially noticeable when there are no other options that are open.

These are Boutte’s numbers in 8 starts.
35 targets
20 receptions
276 yards
1 TD

That projects to a full season of

74 targets
42 receptions
586 yards
2 TD

That’s 2.5 catches and 34.5 receiving yards per game.


Devante Parker averaged 2.5 catches for 35.9 yards per game as a patriot

Boutte is failing badly.

 

[KCSVEN]

Why is Barmore blocking on defense? Wouldn’t we want him to go demolish the ball carrier instead of laying on top of a blocker?

Ha yeah he was chasing the ball carrier and this guy was blocking, obviously a wr not a db that he ran over
The ball carrier was down by time He decided to jump on top of the guy and give him the what for

 

[Patsfan1645]

Are you sure you're remembering "1st 7-8 games Mac Jones," though? He was much more accurate with the same pocket time and pressure rate, but I sensed he was a ticking time bomb with that dui and nickname of "MacEnroe." His INT's were more reasonable back then. I do really like what I see regarding Maye's poise, but it's early, and there have been plenty of mistakes, but that INT was ugly. I'm gonna wait until year 3 to really make any overall judgments either way.

I totally get it but the thing I noticed about Jones from day one was his passing which never really changed. I thought he did not have any velocity on his throws and was concerned that it would give DBs an opportunity for picks and it certainly did. Maye throws more like Allen and Herbert (both have cannons) than he does like Jones. That is probably the most important aspect about him to me. You cant teach velocity and when QBs try to force velocity they tend to loose accuracy. What do you think we would look like today if instead of Mac Jones being drafted it was Drake Maye. What would the records look like over those years and who would be the coaching staff today...one can only wonder.