PostGame Thread 2023 Week 8: Patriots fall 31-17 to the Dolphins

[venecol]

He's never had perfect conditions. He had a winning record in 2021 with a decentish squad that was nothing special.

The only QB that is guaranteed to win on this team right now is Mahomes. And it at best would be a .500 level team. Any other good QB and it's such a steep decline in talent that you can't even give them the benefit of the doubt.

He had perfect conditions in ALA, which is the last time he was consistent.

 

[lancerman]

I disagree on this. He scrambled for a 1st down and got out of the pocket and had completions. His throws were quick, accurate & with a lot of zip. I've watched QBs across the league that make plays when under pressure. Mac is just not good at it. He panics. His passes on the run are dangerous.

I agree conditions aren't ideal for him, which is apparently what he needs to be consistent.

He overthrew multiple times when he had pressure and his INT basically came off him being flushed. The difference was Hill and Waddle were always getting open so he had safety valves. Tua does not do that well when he has to go much beyond his first two reads.

Tua just has some insurance that sometime when plays break down he can look for his top two guys and one will be wide open

 

[sb1]

I disagree on this. He scrambled for a 1st down and got out of the pocket and had completions. His throws were quick, accurate & with a lot of zip. I've watched QBs across the league that make plays when under pressure. Mac is just not good at it. He panics. His passes on the run are dangerous.

I agree conditions aren't ideal for him, which is apparently what he needs to be consistent.

I’d say QBs who need that are a dime a dozen.

 

[PatsFan2]

1. We just witnessed exhibit #99 that Mac can't make an NFL level throw outside the numbers. Ramsey was nowhere close to the receiver and had plenty of time to INT that lob. He's not the guy.

2. MIA lost the TO battle and gifted us 10 pts. We still lost by 14. Not great.

3. MIA had back-ups at LG and LT and may have lost RG during the game. Tua got sacked just twice and got around the pressure. Not good.

4. We got swept by the Phins. If not because we faced their 3rd string QB last season, they would've swept us then too (beat them by 2). McDaniel is outcoaching Belichick consistently.

5. "When an NFL team starts the season with a 2-6 record, that's usually a kiss of death when it comes to making the playoffs. Since the Super Bowl era started in 1966, only two teams out of 186 have made the postseason after opening the year with six losses in their first eight games, according the AP." Sayonara season.

6. With 9 games left to play, Belichick needs 7 more loses to tie Reeves/ Fisher for regular season loses and Tom Landry for total loses.

7. Kraft in March '23 (said same in March '22): "Look, I’d like him to break Don Shula’s record, but I’m not looking for any our players to get great stats,” Kraft said. “We’re about winning, and doing whatever we can to win. And that’s what our focus is now. And I -- it’s very important to me that we make the playoffs, and that’s what I hope happens next year.” Bob, there's always next year.

BB haven't discerned that Checkers vs chess.

 

[PatsFan2]

Wouldn't it be funny if Mac had a solid career after us?

Fat chance and ain't never seen one.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The trade from 4 to 2 is still going to be a lot. When the Jets went from 6th to 3rd with the Colts to get Darnold, it cost them their 6th overall, the 37th overall, and the 49th overall.

We can do it. But it's going to be a lot steeper than people realize.

There's always a price to pay to move up for a franchise level Quarterback.

But the reason is simple, they are one of the biggest factors to winning for a football team in the modern age.

Tom Brady covered up so many of BB's terrible drafting mistakes over the years, until he got fed up and finally left.

And now we finally see all the cracks in the wall and the team suddenly can't even make the playoffs anymore.

BB has run this franchise into the ground. The talent on offense is abysmal.

He's a brilliant defensive mind, no doubt about that, but there's no way BB should be allowed to 'pick the groceries' going forward regardless of his contract extension.

 

[PatsFan2]

I haven't followed the thread, but any news on Bourne's Knee?

The Patriots need one of the Safeties to step up and be the next DMac. Too many screw-ups in coverage..

Any news on Bentley's hamstring?

My biggest disappointment from today was the Pats secondary not playing enough press man on Hill. You let him get a free release and he will burn you every time. And that's what happened.

It has come to that we worrying about Bentley boys this Third and First Defense have problems.

 

[lancerman]

He had perfect conditions in ALA, which is the last time he was consistent.

Everyone has perfect conditions in Alabama. In the NFL all the good QB's right now had stud WR's. The Alabama QB's that Mac is being compared to have Hill, Waddle, Brown and Smith. So their teams knew what to go get them to make them successful. We have a GM who doesn't want to do that. The other successful QB's in the league have guys like Kelce, Diggs, Chase. When Lawrence came into the league the Jaguars fixed his problems by paying for Kirk. It worked.

All the good teams with good QB's figured out how to support their QB. Then their input got a good output.

The Patriots haven't done that since 2019 and haven't won a playoff game since. This isn't rocket science.

The Patriots did what bad teams do. They didn't put a good supporting cast around a young QB, and it screwed up his development, and now he's probably ruined beyond repair because of it and they have to start over. We used to make fun of the Jets for this all the time.

 

[sb1]

There's always a price to pay to move up for a franchise level Quarterback.

But the reason is simple, they are one of the biggest factors to winning for a football team in the modern age.

Tom Brady covered up so many of BB's terrible drafting mistakes over the years, until he got fed up and finally left.

And now we finally see all the cracks in the wall and the team suddenly can't even make the playoffs anymore.

BB has run this franchise into the ground. The talent on offense is abysmal.

He's a brilliant defensive mind, no doubt about that, but there's no way BB should be allowed to 'pick the groceries' going forward regardless of his contract extension.

Yeah he’s done as GM. Has to be. His philosophy of team building should be in the rear view mirror.

 

[lancerman]

There's always a price to pay to move up for a franchise level Quarterback.

But the reason is simple, they are one of the biggest factors to winning for a football team in the modern age.

Tom Brady covered up so many of BB's terrible drafting mistakes over the years, until he got fed up and finally left.

And now we finally see all the cracks in the wall and the team suddenly can't even make the playoffs anymore.

BB has run this franchise into the ground. The talent on offense is abysmal.

He's a brilliant defensive mind, no doubt about that, but there's no way BB should be allowed to 'pick the groceries' going forward regardless of his contract extension.

There's two problems.

1. You aren't drafting a Tom Brady who can cover up everything. And frankly the other teams with good QB's aren't asking their QB's to cover mistakes like Belichick. They just get talent for their QB to play with.

2. Even with a QB, we need WR's and lineman. If you HAVE to make that trade.... you are basically conceding that you won't be picking again until the late third at best. Which means you can't guarantee any quality there.

They are just better off finding a way to lose out.

In fact, and people will hate this, they should probably do something similar to what the Colts did. Drop Mac in the offseason, draft Harrison Jr as a premier WR, go in with a junk QB and get another high draft pick next year and get your guy when you have some talent. Otherwise you are just setting up the next guy to fail.

And for the love of god, get rid of Belichick. He is not the guy to do this.

 

[ALP]

Andy Reid before Mahomes

172-115
.599

donovan mcnabb is also a franchise QB, just not elite like mahomes

what's the number without macnabb and what's the sample size then?

 

[PATS16N0]

I’m all about best player on the board if the available QB is an overhyped Manziel.

I mean, yeah, it looks like drafting a quarterback is hard, but a lot of teams are ****ing stupid, too. How many drafts do we watch drafts and just know the team is stupid for their early 1st round pick? I don’t even watch college football and sometimes it’s obvious they’re going to be a bust just from highlight reels (I.e. Manziel) yet teams still take them high.

So is it super-duper-impossibly hard or are teams just stupid? A better question than “how many quarterbacks are busts” is “how many believable NFL prospects are busts?”

 

[lancerman]

Brady also had an Orca pod effect where all the other super-predators ****ed off and stayed clear of the AFC East, just like the NFC cleared out right after he won a Super Bowl with Tampa, going through Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes.

The Brady factor was scary important.

Belichick’s legacy has objectively taken a massive hit. If you don’t believe that, you’re flat out wrong because you’re not going to find anyone with any credibility still crediting the coach over the quarterback, like was the case before simply because it took a lot of shine off the Patriots dynasty for being an alleged result of schematics instead of men.

The other thing that gets ignored is that the rest of the AFC East made stupid decisions because they felt they had to chase Brady and they over spent and made bad deals like paying Suh a fortune and having him devour cap space. Or keeping Rex Ryan on too long or hiring him after he failed (Buffalo) because he had success against Brady once.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Correct. He had 1st rd draft choices at QB and won consistently.

I love the Andy Reid argument. As if having McNabb and Vick as your QBs is the same as having a broken down Cam and Mac Jones. Give Philly credit for bringing Vick in or else who knows how long Reid would’ve been saddled with Kevin Kolb.

 

[lancerman]

donovan mcnabb is also a franchise QB, just not elite like mahomes

what's the number without macnabb and what's the sample size then?

He's still a winning coach. He's won with virtually everyone he had at QB

 

[PatsFan2]

Seeing Parker take his customary injury Sabbatical is not all that bad. Mac the gift who keeps on giving. Now get us that #1 overall pick Mac.

 

[Ross12]

When are we going to hear from Kraft?

 

[PatsFan2]

I love the Andy Reid argument. As if having McNabb and Vick as your QBs is the same as having a broken down Cam and Mac Jones. Give Philly credit for bringing Vick in or else who knows how long Reid would’ve been saddled with Kevin Kolb.

Reid will go down as a GOAT Offense Mind and also the winningest.

 

[PATS16N0]

I remember watching Manziel clips and seeing him scramble, throw an Eli Manning bomb down the field to a wide open receiver who still had to jump 3 feet straight up into the air, with arms fully extended, just hanging there suspended in the air for seconds, in order to grab it.

Like really, who TF at Cleveland thought that was gonna’ work? I just don’t think drafting a QB in a 3 year window is as difficult as ****-teams make it out to be. You might have to go best player on the board for a draft or two but if you can’t get anyone adequate over a window of time you’re probably just ******ed.

 

[Hawaiianpatsfan2]

rr

Keep Peppers, Barmore, Jennings as well.
Kraft should fire Bill today,
Hire a group to find a new GM and HC.
I want both selected by a talent agency.

Talent agency? Really. The only type of talent agency that produces and promoters real “talent” are model agency’s, and that’s because it’s the ultimate eye test. The rest is nepotism, favoritism, and who you know.