NFL GAME DAY DISCUSSION 2022 NFL Playoff Monday - Wild Card Round - Cow Patties vs the Avocados

[Rob0729]

I read your post to say that Mac was a better QB than Brady. Nvm.

I don't think Mac's mother believes that.

 

[Guts]

I don't think Mac's mother believes that.

Yeah not fair to compare him to his predecessor.
Hes the 2nd best QB of his draft class
Let's see how year 3 goes.

 

[venecol]

You think Jones is a better QB than Brady? Really?

He is arguing that Brady gets the benefit of the doubt that his fall off in play is due to coaching and players around him because he is the GOAT and Jones doesn't get that benefit of the doubt because he has Belichick and he is a far lesser QB than Brady.

Neither Brady nor Mac should get the benefit of doubt for their poor play. They both regressed. That's on them. Brady was still a top QB on several categories but then again that's why he's the GOAT. Mac was bottom of the league in most categories. That's not all because of coaching. To me, he lost confidence and regressed. Not sure if it was the pressure that got to him or what, but he just didn't look the part. His mannerisims, body language, outbursts, it was just a bad look pretty much all season until the end, when he played better and stopped the histrionics.

 

[sb1]

The only thing Jones does better than Brady is the griddy. lol

 

[Steve102]

The funniest part of this ^ Brady conversation, is we have a great sample size from 2020 that proves my balance theory is unequivocally true.

Entering the bye week 13 in 2020, the Bucs had lost 3 of their last 4 games... in each of those losses they rushed for 75 yards or less.

In one really bad loss against the Saints, the Bucs set a single game record (league... not team record) for fewest rushing attempts (4) in a single game... they got slaughtered 38-3.

Their one win in those four weeks by the way... over 210 yards rushing. That was the game immediately after the Saints debacle where even reporters were asking why they weren't running... even a little.

Well flash forward to after the bye week. Somebody obviously put two and two together. The Bucs win their final four games by incorporating the run more. In the playoffs the Bucs lead the postseason in rushing attempts, attempts per game and Leonard Fournette earns the moniker "playoff Lenny."

The person who fixed that was Arians.

How do we know?

Because the moment Tom has him fired, the Bucs have a season where they rank dead last in rushing attempts, and instead of fixing it for the playoffs... they go into Dallas and run the ball 12 times and lose.

If you let your QB be the offensive coordinator along with the GM, then who is going to hold him accountable?

Nobody...

A QB is always going to want to pass the ball... always.

Especially one who is trying to set every passing record in the book.

Fanboys hate to admit their sacred cows are human.

​

 

[venecol]

Yeah not fair to compare him to his predecessor.
Hes the 2nd best QB of his draft class
Let's see how year 3 goes.

Lawrence and Fields both had a higher ratings & QBR than Mac. We've yet to see what Lance can do. So the jury is still out on where all five of the 1st round QBs land. We'll know this coming season for sure.

 

[TBR]

The person who fixed that was Arians.

How do we know?

Because the moment Tom has him fired,

​

Again, that is nothing but juicy tabloid rumors.

You're telling me that after a Super Bowl winning season in 2020, followed by looking about as great as ever in 2021 with an offense firing on all cylinders outside of injuries... that Brady figured "The coach of these teams needs to go. He's holding us back. I could be putting up even better numbers" --- then retired as a negotiating tactic until Arians capitulated, un-retired, then attends Arians' retirement press conference? Only a total sociopath, given all the aforementioned, would end up sitting front row at the retirement press conference of the guy he schemed to force into retirement.

It's ridiculous on numerous fronts. You're also projecting the mentality of a 12 year old Madden player on to Brady, regarding the "QBs just want to throw the ball a bunch and not run it" philosophy.

 

[sb1]

Lawrence and Fields both had a higher ratings & QBR than Mac. We've yet to see what Lance can do. So the jury is still out on where all five of the 1st round QBs land. We'll know this coming season for sure.

I think at this point we can fill in the #5 slot.

There are good QBs in that 2021 draft class. Then there are average QBs.
Then there's 50 feet of crap.
Then there's Zach Wilson.

 

[venecol]

Lazar's summary of Mac, which I find to be fair. We need to know in 2024 what he have in him.

"Mac Jones - We wrote an extensive breakdown of the starting quarterback here. Mac has proven to be a functional NFL starter capable of operating at a high level from clean pockets. However, it remains to be seen how much he can elevate an NFL offense, especially when he's going toe-to-toe with an elite quarterback. To date, he's still searching for a signature win against a playoff team at full strength. Next season, the Pats should level the playing field with an experienced OC and a top weapon at Jones's disposal."

The bold part applies to any signature win really, since he only has 1 GWD against the Texans in '21. That's the thing that bothers me the most about Mac. He just doesn't seem to have that clutch gene in him. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

 

[venecol]

Again, that is nothing but juicy tabloid rumors.

You're telling me that after a Super Bowl winning season in 2020, followed by looking about as great as ever in 2021 with an offense firing on all cylinders outside of injuries... that Brady figured "The coach of these teams needs to go. He's holding us back. I could be putting up even better numbers" --- then retired as a negotiating tactic until Arians capitulated, un-retired, then attends Arians' retirement press conference? Only a total sociopath, given all the aforementioned, would end up sitting front row at the retirement press conference of the guy he schemed to force into retirement.

It's ridiculous on numerous fronts. You're also projecting the mentality of a 12 year old Madden player on to Brady, regarding the "QBs just want to throw the ball a bunch and not run it" philosophy.

To your point, Arians health decayed quickly around his announcement. This was his decision based on health. Nothing more to see here.

 

[Steve102]

The funniest part of this ^ Brady conversation, is we have a great sample size from 2020 that proves my balance theory is unequivocally true.

Entering the bye week 13 in 2020, the Bucs had lost 3 of their last 4 games... in each of those losses they rushed for 75 yards or less.

In one really bad loss against the Saints, the Bucs set a single game record (league... not team record) for fewest rushing attempts (4) in a single game... they got slaughtered 38-3.

Their one win in those four weeks by the way... over 210 yards rushing. That was the game immediately after the Saints debacle where even reporters were asking why they weren't running... even a little.

Well flash forward to after the bye week. Somebody obviously put two and two together. The Bucs win their final four games by incorporating the run more. In the playoffs the Bucs lead the postseason in rushing attempts, attempts per game and Leonard Fournette earns the moniker "playoff Lenny."

The person who fixed that was Arians.

How do we know?

Because the moment Tom has him fired, the Bucs have a season where they rank dead last in rushing attempts, and instead of fixing it for the playoffs... they go into Dallas and run the ball 12 times and lose.

If you let your QB be the offensive coordinator along with the GM, then who is going to hold him accountable?

Nobody...

A QB is always going to want to pass the ball... always.

Especially one who is trying to set every passing record in the book.

Fanboys hate to admit their sacred cows are human.

​

I was thinking about your (excellent) point here. There's gotta be a system of checks and balances. Who is going to tell Tom Brady, King of Foxboro, Ruler of Tampa, Holder of Lombardis, Lord of the Seven Rings, Leader of GOATs and future Monarch of Canton that he can't do something? Byron Leftwich? Todd Bowles? Someone has to check Tom's impulses, and clearly those guys aren't doing it. I think we are seeing that here, as well. Bill has not had someone check him, until now, with the press release last week. The Krafts seem to be doing that. It'll be intertesting to see if Tom does go to Vegas, because JMcD certainly has the relationship to stand Tom up and check him.

 

[crawhammer]

Yeah not fair to compare him to his predecessor.
Hes the 2nd best QB of his draft class
Let's see how year 3 goes.

Trevor Lawrence has firmly taken the #1 spot.
Zach Wilson has firmly taken the #5 spot.
Trey Lance is an Inc.

That leaves Mac Jones and Justin Fields. Mac had the better rookie season but compare their second seasons:

Mac:
14 games
14 TDs
3.2 TD%
11 INTs
2.5 INT%
214 Y/G
6.8 Y/A
65.2 Cmp%
84.8 passer rating
35.8 QBR
102 rushing yards
2.2 Y/A
1 rushing TD

Fields:
15 games
17 TDs
5.3 TD%
11 INTs
3.5 INT%
150 Y/G
7.1 Y/A
60.4 Cmp%
85.28 passer rating
53.9 QBR
1143 rushing yards
7.1 Y/A
8 rushing TD

Fields had arguably a better passing season but if you add in the rushing totals then his season blows Mac's away. Mac also played with far more surrounding talent. To me Fields is already better than Mac, but his ceiling is much higher than Mac's.

 

[crawhammer]

I was thinking about your (excellent) point here. There's gotta be a system of checks and balances. Who is going to tell Tom Brady, King of Foxboro, Ruler of Tampa, Holder of Lombardis, Lord of the Seven Rings, Leader of GOATs and future Monarch of Canton that he can't do something? Byron Leftwich? Todd Bowles? Someone has to check Tom's impulses, and clearly those guys aren't doing it. I think we are seeing that here, as well. Bill has not had someone check him, until now, with the press release last week. The Krafts seem to be doing that. It'll be intertesting to see if Tom does go to Vegas, because JMcD certainly has the relationship to stand Tom up and check him.

Are we really questioning if "The Brady Way" isn't the best way to go about it? He has more Lombardi's than any franchise. He won a Super Bowl in his first season with a new team. I don't think anyone is tweaking a Tarantino script. Brady should be able to do whatever he wants.

 

[venecol]

I was thinking about your (excellent) point here. There's gotta be a system of checks and balances. Who is going to tell Tom Brady, King of Foxboro, Ruler of Tampa, Holder of Lombardis, Lord of the Seven Rings, Leader of GOATs and future Monarch of Canton that he can't do something? Byron Leftwich? Todd Bowles? Someone has to check Tom's impulses, and clearly those guys aren't doing it. I think we are seeing that here, as well. Bill has not had someone check him, until now, with the press release last week. The Krafts seem to be doing that. It'll be intertesting to see if Tom does go to Vegas, because JMcD certainly has the relationship to stand Tom up and check him.

I think there's this unwarranted belief that Tom runs things in Tampa. That's just not the case. Bowles is no push over. Just because he doesn't come across as forceful as BA, it doesn't mean he would be swayed by Tom. We saw it live in several games where Tom wanted to go for it on 4th down and Bowles sent out the punting unit. Does TB give Tom more of a voice than the Patriots ever did? Absolutely. Every QB wants that. I just don't see that being a problem. Brady was definitely off this season. Could've been his personal life issues. Idk. He can still play at a high level but at 46 he needs a good OL, good running game & weapons to be as effective as when he was younger. The fact his '20-'21 seasons were among the best in his entire career is crazy. I personally hope he retires but only he knows what he'll do.

 

[Steve102]

I think there's this unwarranted belief that Tom runs things in Tampa. That's just not the case. Bowles is no push over. Just because he doesn't come across as forceful as BA, it doesn't mean he would be swayed by Tom. We saw it live in several games where Tom wanted to go for it on 4th down and Bowles sent out the punting unit. Does TB give Tom more of a voice than the Patriots ever did? Absolutely. Every QB wants that. I just don't see that being a problem. Brady was definitely off this season. Could've been his personal life issues. Idk. He can still play at a high level but at 46 he needs a good OL, good running game & weapons to be as effective as when he was younger. The fact his '20-'21 seasons were among the best in his entire career is crazy. I personally hope he retires but only he knows what he'll do.

We see it very differently, my man. I see it as Brady got Arians out, kept Leftwich, and signed off on Bowles. That doesn't mean that Brady has autonomy on game day. Bowles is still the HC, but offensively, it's Brady in charge, with a partnership in Leftwich.

 

[venecol]

We see it very differently, my man. I see it as Brady got Arians out, kept Leftwich, and signed off on Bowles. That doesn't mean that Brady has autonomy on game day. Bowles is still the HC, but offensively, it's Brady in charge, with a partnership in Leftwich.

So you don't think that BA's decaying health had zero to do with him retiring from coaching? That it was all a conspiracy by Brady to take him out? Maybe Brady hired some Russian agents to give BA a plutonium prick on his skin to make him feel ill. It's possible.

 

[Steve102]

So you don't think that BA's decaying health had zero to do with him retiring from coaching? That it was all a conspiracy by Brady to take him out? Maybe Brady hired some Russian agents to give BA a plutonium prick on his skin to make him feel ill. It's possible.

Do you remember when Tuna's health was an issue? He still managed to come back to coaching. Do I think it was this black bag operation by Brady to gain control? No. Do I think that Brady had a meeting with Glazer in London and then Arians was out? Yup. To recap:

On March 12, he traveled to the United Kingdom to take in a Manchester United soccer match. … On March 13, Brady announced that he was coming back to the Buccaneers. His announcement came three days before the start of free agency, allowing the Bucs to use Brady as a recruiting tool.

The final chapter was written March 30, when the Buccaneers announced that Arians was stepping down as head coach and giving way to (Todd) Bowles, who was the team’s defensive coordinator. Every other Bucs coach remained in place, including Leftwich, who essentially will be the head coach on the offensive side of the ball.

It’s not certain what exactly Brady and the Glazers spoke about at the soccer match. But it doesn’t take a genius to put 2 + 2 together.

 

[venecol]

Do you remember when Tuna's health was an issue? He still managed to come back to coaching. Do I think it was this black bag operation by Brady to gain control? No. Do I think that Brady had a meeting with Glazer in London and then Arians was out? Yup. To recap:

Dude, Arians has heart and leg circulation issues. He was seen roaming around in a cart last season and this season. He's done. Coaching at the NFL level is a high pressure gig. Bucs needed someone younger and energetic to continue their push for another SB before Brady left. That was not BA.

 

[Steve102]

Dude, Arians has heart and leg circulation issues. He was seen roaming around in a cart last season and this season. He's done. Coaching at the NFL level is a high pressure gig. Bucs needed someone younger and energetic to continue their push for another SB before Brady left. That was not BA.

Again, you see it differently than me. Brady retires February of 2022. Brady met with Glazer on 3/12, Brady unretires and Arians is in a new role on 3/13.

Now, if you wanna go down a conspiracy rabbit hole, the Glazer meeting was about Brady being in a mess with the Ross meeting and the Dolphins fiasco, which cost the Dolphins a pick and a chuck of money.

The Dolphins will lose their first-round pick in the 2023 draft and a third-round pick in 2024. Owner Stephen Ross was suspended until Oct. 17, banned from all league committees and fined $1.5 million.

In addition, Bruce Beal, the Dolphins’ vice chairman/limited partner and a friend of Brady’s, was fined $500,000 and may not attend any league meeting for the remainder of the year.

So, Brady goes to Glazer and says he has to come back in order to save face with the NFL, so Glazer makes it easy peazy, as he's grateful to Brady for the SB win. Perhaps Arians was leaving anyway. This keeps Brady out of the public opinion jail and it all goes away. Now, Brady's legacy is not tainted by the Miami mess, he's back to being Capt. America. Again, just a conspiracy theory, and not one that I subscribe to.

 

[crawhammer]

We see it very differently, my man. I see it as Brady got Arians out, kept Leftwich, and signed off on Bowles. That doesn't mean that Brady has autonomy on game day. Bowles is still the HC, but offensively, it's Brady in charge, with a partnership in Leftwich.

Bowles harped on the running game and conservative approach all season. The running game failed time and time again and yet Toilet Bowles was still clamoring for more rushing attempts during halftime interviews. Then Brady would rescue the team with nothing but passing plays out of the no huddle. Unfortunately Brady was only able to do this a handful of times.