2011 Offseason Outlook - Offensive Line

[ATippett56]

You want to start two rookies on the right side of the line?

Time to pre-order Brady's casket.

Back track to the 2005 NFL Season, after Matt Light went down, Nick Kaczur started at left tackle and Logan Mankins started at left guard. It is not without precedence that this has occurred during the Bill Belichick era.

http://www.nfl.com/players/mattlight/gamelogs?id=LIG425673&season=2005

http://www.nfl.com/players/nickkaczur/gamelogs?id=KAC567222&season=2005

http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=30940

 

[Deus Irae]

Back track to the 2005 NFL Season, after Matt Light went down, Nick Kaczur started at left tackle and Logan Mankins started at left guard. It is not without precedence that this has occurred during the Bill Belichick era.

Matt Light: Game Logs at NFL.com

And we'd rather not repeat 2005, which is the point, especially with Brady no longer being as mobile in the pocket, or as willing to run.

 

[ATippett56]

You want to start two rookies on the right side of the line?

Not a fan of Nick Kaczur either?

 

[ATippett56]

And we'd rather not repeat 2005, which is the point, especially with Brady no longer being as mobile in the pocket, or as willing to run.

Actually it was worse in the 2005 AFC Divisional Playoff Game against the Denver Broncos, Kaczur was out due to injury so Ashworth played left tackle and Gorin played right tackle. Meanwhile, Hochstein played center since Koppen was out, as well.

 

[Sciz]

You want to start two rookies on the right side of the line?

Time to pre-order Brady's casket.

If I had my way, they'd replace the whole right 3/5 of the line. Heck, I'd rather have Kaczur starting at RT than Koppen at C.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually it was worse in the 2005 AFC Divisional Playoff Game against the Denver Broncos, Kaczur was out due to injury so Ashworth played left tackle and Gorin played right tackle. Meanwhile, Hochstein played center since Koppen was out, as well.

And Light played in 3 games before being lost for the season, so the rookies, especially Mankins, at least got a little time to adjust to the NFL before it happened.


As for Kaczur, he struggled in 2009 and missed all of 2010 with a back injury. I don't think it's wise to go into the season expecting him to be the starter.

 

[ATippett56]

If I had my way, they'd replace the whole right 3/5 of the line. Heck, I'd rather have Kaczur starting at RT than Koppen at C.

You don't care for Sebastian Vollmer?

 

[bucky]

I'm not posturing. You're just not grasping the painfully obvious.

Andruzzi, who'd started games prior to his arrival in New England, WON THE JOB because he was better than the competition of the full, healthy roster. He went on to hold the job for years.

Connolly, who'd never started a game prior to his arrival in New England, was a backup, and got the job due to injury/holdout in 2009. In the offseason, he was AGAIN made the backup, and was the #3 choice, behind Mankins and Kaczur. Mankins held out, and Kaczur got hurt, which is why Connolly was a holdout/injury replacement, and not the intended starter or the winner of a training camp against the intended starter/1st backup.


I'm sorry that you can't figure out the difference there.

Actually, it's you who is not grasping the obvious:

How Connolly became a starter is immaterial. That fact is that he started 14 games for a 14-2 team. And if he wasn't good enough to start, BB would have pulled him out of the starting lineup - just like he did with all the garbage that preceded Andruzzi in 2000.

 

[jays52]

Actually, it's you who is not grasping the obvious:

How Connolly became a starter is immaterial. That fact is that he started 14 games for a 14-2 team. And if he wasn't good enough to start, BB would have pulled him out of the starting lineup - just like he did with all the garbage that preceded Andruzzi in 2000.

I wish that it was that simple but it's not. In today's NFL, every team is going to have flaws. Flashy teams that win a lot of games in the regular season but lose in the postseason have flaws in the line. The Patriots are no different on either side of the ball. Connoly isn't a horrible player, but he played horribly against the Jets. That said, there's no question in my mind that he is intended to be a spot backup. Nothing more, nothing less. They found pure alchemy in Neal and Andruzzi, and no one can expect to consistently replicate that. Should they find a great RT in the draft or retain Light, it is critical that they retain Mankins and allow Kascur to slide into his natural role.

Dues is 100% spot on.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually, it's you who is not grasping the obvious:

How Connolly became a starter is immaterial. That fact is that he started 14 games for a 14-2 team. And if he wasn't good enough to start, BB would have pulled him out of the starting lineup - just like he did with all the garbage that preceded Andruzzi in 2000.

Connolly wasn't good enough to win the starting job. Connolly wasn't good enough to win the backup job. Connolly was the 3rd option who was forced into action when the player who was "good enough to start" (Mankins) decided not to sign his tender, and the player who was being converted from tackle to guard and taking the snaps with the first team (Kaczur) got injured. Then, when Mankins came back to the team, Neal, the guy who was "good enough to start" at RG went on the IR. Connolly was not the "good enough to start" player. He was the "The guys who were good enough to start are injured, and so is the #1 backup, so he's next on the list" guy.

What part of this is too difficult for you to grasp?

 

[rabthepat]

2011 Offseason Outlook - Offensive Line - "One and Done" come playoffs next season. Bank it...time to fly in some Egyptians to institute some regime change in Foxboro. Pats fans too blind to see the writing on the wall. Belichick is taking this team no where fast. You guys can analyze all you want until the cows come home ain't going to change the fact that we need new leadership.

6 years and counting now without a Superbowl....

3 years and counting now without a playoff win.....

tick, tick, tick as Tom Brady gets older....

 

[part-timer]

Connoly was and is a good back up at either guard spot. Kaczur may be an accepable back up at either guard or tackle spot. Wendel may be an addiquit back up at C/G. But Niel and Koppen are no longer accepable as starters and are to old to take up a roster spot as a back up. These possitions must be addressed in this years draft with imediate starter quality picks, not late round value picks, we have waisted too many of those in the last few drafts without making any hits. Also if Light can't be signed to a short term team friendly contract we may also need to replace him by moveing Vollmer to LT and signing a quality RT with ability to move left in the event of injury. I know replaceing the whole rt side of the line in one season sounds risky but the core of back ups will help make this possible. Lastly without Mankins none of this can be possible. He must be retained for at least the first year of the transition, hopefully long term. I believe delaying this rebuilding of the OL will only hold back the progress of the team. We should be in for one more rebuilding year, centering on the OL this time. Vollmer being the only valuble pick(late second round) made on the OL since Mankins was a bit risky of the Pats management. Starter quality OL men are not found in the bottom half of the draft but by exception.

 

[bucky]

Connolly wasn't good enough to win the starting job. Connolly wasn't good enough to win the backup job. Connolly was the 3rd option who was forced into action when the player who was "good enough to start" (Mankins) decided not to sign his tender, and the player who was being converted from tackle to guard and taking the snaps with the first team (Kaczur) got injured. Then, when Mankins came back to the team, Neal, the guy who was "good enough to start" at RG went on the IR. Connolly was not the "good enough to start" player. He was the "The guys who were good enough to start are injured, and so is the #1 backup, so he's next on the list" guy.

What part of this is too difficult for you to grasp?

Here is the problem with your argument:

Darius Butler got the RCB job as an injury replacement and "was NOT good enough to start." So he got benched in favor of a guy who was exclusively a special teams player. Clearly, Darius Butler is not a starter.

Connolly got the job as an injury replacement and "was good enough to start" the rest of the year. Surely, if Connolly "was not good enough to start", BB would have given someone else a chance.

 

[bucky]

Connoly isn't a horrible player, but he played horribly against the Jets.

I disagree with that statement. He got beat a couple of times, but he did not play "horribly". And certainly was not the reason the team lost.

Clearly, Mankins is a better player. I would love to have on OL with Mankins at LG, Joe Thomas at LT, Mangold at C, etc. But not if that means our starting defense is going to consist of Banta Cain, Deaderick, Kyle Love, Guyton, Eric Moore, and Arrington. A trade off has to be made. And IMO, the team can deal with Connolly starting at LG better than with the defensive front 7 they fielded against the Jets.

 

[Shelterdog]

I disagree with that statement. He got beat a couple of times, but he did not play "horribly". And certainly was not the reason the team lost.

Clearly, Mankins is a better player. I would love to have on OL with Mankins at LG, Joe Thomas at LT, Mangold at C, etc. But not if that means our starting defense is going to consist of Banta Cain, Deaderick, Kyle Love, Guyton, Eric Moore, and Arrington. A trade off has to be made. And IMO, the team can deal with Connolly starting at LG better than with the defensive front 7 they fielded against the Jets.

I'm with you that Connolly is a lot better than he gets credit for here (if he's as bad as people say then BB and Scar are idiots for not replacing him with a street free agent, and I don't think BB and Scar are idiots). But Connolly as LG suggests Wendell or the corpse of Neal at RG and that's not a guard combination that's going to win a lot of games, particularly with Koppen and Light/Kaczur getting older.

 

[Sciz]

You don't care for Sebastian Vollmer?

Vollmer-Mankins-Newcomer-Newcomer-Newcomer

 

[part-timer]

Vollmer-Mankins-Newcomer-Newcomer-Newcomer

How bout- Vollmer,Mankins,Wisniewski pick 33,Ijalana pick 74, Carimi pick 17.
Massive, nasty, agile,and all leader in college.

 

[jmt57]

It Is What It Is -- Potential Patriots: Carl Nicks -- Christopher Price, WEEI.com

Carl Nicks
Position: Guard
Team: New Orleans
Height: 6-foot-5
Weight: 341
Age: 25

Why the Patriots would be interested: Odds are good the Patriots will lose at least one of their starting guards, either to free agency or trade (Logan Mankins) or retirement (Stephen Neal). If he isn’t franchised, Nicks figures to be targeted by New England as a possible replacement. According to Pro Football Focus, he yielded only four quarterback sacks in 2010, and was durable enough to play every one of New Orleans’ 1,216 offensive snaps over the course of the season. And while teammate and fellow guard Jahri Evans got a big payday last offseason from the Saints, Nicks could provide great value for New England at the position.

Why it would happen: As previously stated, the Patriots are likely going to lose one of their starting guards — maybe both of them — and while Dan Connolly played well in relief of both Mankins and Neal over the course of the 2010 season, there’s some question about his ability to be a long-term starter. (Some believe he’s better suited to the role of Russ Hochstein — a versatile and important backup who can play multiple positions along the offensive line.) ...

Some possible alternatives: Daryn Colledge (Green Bay), Harvey Dahl (Atlanta), Ryan Kalil (Carolina), Davin Joseph (Tampa Bay).

Read more at Potential Patriots: Carl Nicks

 

[Shelterdog]

How bout- Vollmer,Mankins,Wisniewski pick 33,Ijalana pick 74, Carimi pick 17.
Massive, nasty, agile,and all leader in college.

That might be the worst line in the league next year. Linemen take time to develop and line chemistry takes time to develop.

 

[part-timer]

That might be the worst line in the league next year. Linemen take time to develop and line chemistry takes time to develop.

Both Mankins and Vollmer steped in as starters. All three rookie prospects are starter quality. Then there will still be backups Kaczur, Connoly, Wendle, and Levoir to assist in the transition.And your use of the word MIGHT is not only noncommititive but leaves open every outcome available, How bout putting your vast criticle knowledge on the line with your suggestion for the OL next season. Put your answer out there for us to use our criticle analysis to.