2011 Offseason Outlook - Offensive Line

[Patriot Missile]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

You are entitled to your opinion, however I beg to differ.

I have previously stated the New England Patriots should utilize the 17th overall selection on a potential 3-4 defensive end such as Cameron Jordan from California.

Blame the entire game on Brandon Spikes because of one play. Brilliant!

Dan Connolly was part of the problem and long term not the solution at offensive guard.

Dan Connolly is no Russ Hochstein.

The New England Patriots offensive line was one of the reasons why the New England Patriots lost to the NY Jets and to deny that is to stick your head in the sand like an ostrich.

Blame can go around for the whole team for the loss. Not just for Spikes since you like to put words in other posters posts.

Blame the loss on Dan Connolly. Brilliant!

Atleast we agree that Cameron Jordan would be a great fit here for the defense.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

Oh yeah, the pats have been just terrible in the draft. Kipen just gave us an A plus, even with no production from Price.

Late rounds? How about Pryor, Deaderick and Edelman? plus UDFA's Fletcher and Love

Hey listen to the man. The Pats should nails picks 1-7 every year. If the Saints can find guys in the 4th and 5th rounds why can't the Pats?

 

[ATippett56]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

Blame can go around for the whole team for the loss.

I agree a total team loss with regard to the New England Patriots offense (specifically offensive line), the New England Patriots defense (red zone defense failed 4 out of 5 attempts), and New England Patriots special teams (botched fake punt attempt).

Not just for Spikes since you like to put words in other posters posts.

I'm not the one who initially brought up Brandon Spikes, who was a rookie in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoff not a sixth year player.

Blame the loss on Dan Connolly. Brilliant!

So protecting and keeping upright the franchise is not more important than just leaving it to scrubs?

At least we agree that Cameron Jordan would be a great fit here for the defense.

According to Mike Mayock, Cameron Jordan looked great at the Senior Bowl practices.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

Oh yeah, the pats have been just terrible in the draft. Kipen just gave us an A plus, even with no production from Price.

Late rounds? How about Pryor, Deaderick and Edelman? plus UDFA's Fletcher and Love

Obviously the New England Patriots turned around their draft fortunes in 2010 to make up for a miserable 2006 NFL Draft and an extremely subpar 2008 NFL Draft aside from Jerod Mayo. I would certainly hope the New England Patriots would not miss on a top ten selection.

 

[Shelterdog]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

Hey listen to the man. The Pats should nails picks 1-7 every year. If the Saints can find guys in the 4th and 5th rounds why can't the Pats?

Any team that nails a bunch of later picks is going to be good, and everyone's going to call them great drafters, regardless of whether they were lucky or smart.

 

[bucky]

Joe Andruzzi was able to win the starting job coming out of camp, against present and healthy competition. Connolly did not do that.

Now you're just making sh!t up. Joe Andruzzi was not even in an NFL camp in 2000. He was signed off the street on Sep 9th of 2000 and was put into the starting lineup 8 days later because the Patriots had the likes of Derrick Fletcher, Sale Isaia, and Grey Reugamer competing at Guard. That's what I'm comparing Connolly to. It's a very valid argument regardless of what happens next year.

 

[bucky]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

Now you are starting to notice a pattern that the New England Patriots offensive line is not good enough to win one playoff game in two consecutive years. In those two playoff games, the New England Patriots offensive line has allowed eight quarterback sacks. In the meantime, in those two playoff games the New England Patriots defense has not sacked the opposing quarterback once.

Finally, you're on to something here. Except you're looking at the wrong side of the ball! Rothlisberger has been sacked 8 times in the 2 playoff games this year. Rogers takes about 2 sacks a game. It's not the given up sacks that are the problem. It's the defense! This OL - with Connolly as a starter - was every bit as good as any of the Superbowl winning ones.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

This OL - with Connolly as a starter - was every bit as good as any of the Superbowl winning ones.

If you think Connolly is the answer at offensive guard, you're just kidding yourself.

As for the Pittsburgh Steelers this season, the Steelers offensive line lost both starting offensive tackles this season. How bad would the New England Patriots offensive line be with Light and Vollmer both placed on injured reserve?

 

[bucky]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

If you think Connolly is the answer at offensive guard, you're just kidding yourself.

The answer to what question? If the question is "Can NE win a SuperBowl with Connolly at OG?" The answer is yes.

As for the Pittsburgh Steelers this season, the Steelers offensive line lost both starting offensive tackles this season. How bad would the New England Patriots offensive line be with Light and Vollmer both placed on injured reserve?

Well they lost Kaczur for the whole season, Mankins for 7 games, and Neal for 8. So it's not THAT different.

Besides, my point in giving the Steelers example is that the # of sacks allowed does not correlate to direct playoff success. The Patriots need to improve their defense first and foremost. The OL has 2 UFAs, one of which needs be retained (I'm fine with either one). I do believe OL needs to be addressed in the draft. It's just not anywhere as dire a situation as you make it out.

 

[ATippett56]

The answer to what question? If the question is "Can NE win a SuperBowl with Connolly at OG?" The answer is yes.

That's just pure speculation on your part.

Well they lost Kaczur for the whole season.

Vollmer is better than Kaczur at this point in their careers.

Mankins for 7 games

Mankins held out and the New England Patriots seriously need to address this situation.

Neal for 8.

Stephen Neal is injury prone as evident by the fact he has now missed 24 regular season games in the last four years. Are you going to rely on a 35 year old offensive lineman for the 2011 NFL season?

Besides, my point in giving the Steelers example is that the # of sacks allowed does not correlate to direct playoff success.

Brady can't scramble like Roethlisberger who can make plays with his feet when the pass protection breaks down.

The Patriots need to improve their defense first and foremost. The OL has 2 UFAs, one of which needs be retained (I'm fine with either one). I do believe OL needs to be addressed in the draft. It's just not anywhere as dire a situation as you make it out.

It's a dire situation when the only decent offensive lineman on the New England Patriots roster under the age of 30 and is currently under contract is Sebastian Vollmer.

 

[bucky]

That's just pure speculation on your part.

Actually, it's more speculation on your part when you say the can NOT win with him.

It's a dire situation when the only decent offensive lineman on the New England Patriots roster under the age of 30 that is currently under contract is Sebastian Vollmer.

Hey, just as I was typing my response, this news came out LOL:

New England Patriots Offensive Line Wins Second Annual Madden Most Valuable Protectors Award Presented By Prilosec OTC®

 

[ATippett56]

Actually, it's more speculation on your part when you say the can NOT win with him.

The offensive line did not hold up against the Ravens in the AFC Wildcard Playoffs in 2009 and the offensive line did not hold up against the Jets in the AFC Divisional Playoffs in 2010. Recent history says otherwise.

Hey, just as I was typing my response, this news came out LOL:

New England Patriots Offensive Line Wins Second Annual Madden Most Valuable Protectors Award Presented By Prilosec OTC®

After watching the New England Patriots offensive line give up five sacks against the New York Jets in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoffs, that award should be retracted.

 

[Shelterdog]

That's just pure speculation on your part.

It's not speculation to say they can go 14-2 in the regular season and beat (in the regular season) every team that made the conference championships.

Do you have a coherent reason for why the line is good enough to win games in the regular season but couldn't win in the playoffs against the exact same opponent? I doubt it.

 

[mgteich]

With regard to our OL, there is a serious disconnect between many posters here and the rest of the known world.

Hey, just as I was typing my response, this news came out LOL:

New England Patriots Offensive Line Wins Second Annual Madden Most Valuable Protectors Award Presented By Prilosec OTC®

 

[bucky]

The offensive line did not hold up against the Ravens in the AFC Wildcard Playoffs in 2009 and the offensive line did not hold up against the Jets in the AFC Divisional Playoffs in 2010. Recent history says otherwise.

After watching the New England Patriots offensive line give up five sacks against the New York Jets in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoffs, that award should be retracted.

It's impossible to make any rational arguments to you because you just keep harping on these 2 games in which the entire Patriots' team was outplayed from the QB down to the kicker. I suppose the OL fumbled a ridiculously called fake punt against the Jets and gave up an 80 yard TD run to Rice on the 1st play of the game. Or maybe it's the OL's fault that Maroney didn't feel like blocking Ray Lewis on a blitz, or that Brady threw a screen pass in the hands of David Harris, or that Randy Moss didn't run any routes against the Ravens, or that Crumpler couldn't block Pace, or that the Ravens ran for 235 yards when everyone knew they couldn't throw it? Or maybe BB can draft someone who can dominate Terrell Suggs on every single snap. That would instantly make that player the best OL in the NFL.

Get it through your thick head - the OL hasn't been a problem on this team for a long time.

 

[Patriot Missile]

It's impossible to make any rational arguments to you because you just keep harping on these 2 games in which the entire Patriots' team was outplayed from the QB down to the kicker. I suppose the OL fumbled a ridiculously called fake punt against the Jets and gave up an 80 yard TD run to Rice on the 1st play of the game. Or maybe it's the OL's fault that Maroney didn't feel like blocking Ray Lewis on a blitz, or that Brady threw a screen pass in the hands of David Harris, or that Randy Moss didn't run any routes against the Ravens, or that Crumpler couldn't block Pace, or that the Ravens ran for 235 yards when everyone knew they couldn't throw it? Or maybe BB can draft someone who can dominate Terrell Suggs on every single snap. That would instantly make that player the best OL in the NFL.

Get it through your thick head - the OL hasn't been a problem on this team for a long time.

Now there was a good argument.

 

[ATippett56]

It's not speculation to say they can go 14-2 in the regular season and beat (in the regular season) every team that made the conference championships.

In the playoffs, the New England Patriots face the top dogs on defense who come prepared to play (Ravens, Jets).

Do you have a coherent reason for why the line is good enough to win games in the regular season but couldn't win in the playoffs against the exact same opponent? I doubt it.

Since Rex Ryan took over as coach of the New York Jets, the Patriots are now 2-3 against the New York Jets including the playoffs. As for the New England Patriots offensive line, the Jets concentrated on exploiting the weakness at right offensive guard, that is one Dan Connolly. In addition, Dan Koppen did not have a banner year either and one has to wonder whether he is now on the downslope of his career. Now is the time to start retooling the offensive line since it's obvious fresh blood is urgently needed.

 

[ATippett56]

Get it through your thick head - the OL hasn't been a problem on this team for a long time.

Get this thru your thick head, scoring three offensive points in the first half against the Jets in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoffs is not going to get the job done. If Tom Brady is continually to take a beating in the AFC Playoffs, the Patriots won't win another playoff game until the offensive line is retooled.

 

[Deus Irae]

Now you're just making sh!t up. Joe Andruzzi was not even in an NFL camp in 2000. He was signed off the street on Sep 9th of 2000 and was put into the starting lineup 8 days later because the Patriots had the likes of Derrick Fletcher, Sale Isaia, and Grey Reugamer competing at Guard. That's what I'm comparing Connolly to. It's a very valid argument regardless of what happens next year.

I'm not making anything up. As you're pointing out, Andruzzi beat out the competition. Connolly got his job because Mankins was holding out and Kaczur got injured.

 

[bucky]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

I'm not making anything up. As you're pointing out, Andruzzi beat out the competition. Connolly go his job because Mankins was holding out and Kaczur got injured.

Your argument's lousy, and it has been from the beginning.

Read your own quote again - "Joe Andruzzi was able to win the starting job coming out of camp"

That is WRONG! Andruzzi was not in camp! He was picked up off the street, was on the team for 1 week, and was handed the job. Prior to that he was a nobody with no job and no NFL experience. Which actually made him less of a "starter" than Connolly.

Just because you say in every one of your posts that my argument is "lousy", doesn't make it so. It just means you have no quality content to argue with. My argument is right on. Connolly is a starter because he started every game for which he was healthy - including preseason and the playoffs. His is actually more qualified to be a starter than Andruzzi was in 2000.