2011 Offseason Outlook - Offensive Line

[ctpatsfan77]

Get this thru your thick head, scoring three offensive points in the first half against the Jets in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoffs is not going to get the job done. If Tom Brady is continually to take a beating in the AFC Playoffs, the Patriots won't win another playoff game until the offensive line is retooled.

And, how, exactly, does Crumpler dropping an easy TD have anything to do with the OL?

In any case, (A) one of the key points about the OL is that BB seems to prefer evolution to revolution, and (B) 3/5 of the line, at a minimum, is going to have to be replaced in the next couple of years.

The real question is not whether or not the OL needs to be reworked, since it clearly has to be, but the best way to do it. My opinion is that it's best to replace one or two pieces at a time, rather than blow it up and start over.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

Read your own quote again - "Joe Andruzzi was able to win the starting job coming out of camp"

That is WRONG! Andruzzi was not in camp! He was picked up off the street, was on the team for 1 week, and was handed the job. Prior to that he was a nobody with no job and no NFL experience. Which actually made him less of a "starter" than Connolly.

Just because you say in every one of your posts that my argument is "lousy", doesn't make it so. It just means you have no quality content to argue with. My argument is right on. Connolly is a starter because he started every game for which he was healthy - including preseason and the playoffs. His is actually more qualified to be a starter than Andruzzi was in 2000.

Yes, he WON the job by beating out the competition, coming out of camp (in other words, as opposed to losing the job and then being promoted due to injury), while Connolly got the job because the players who were supposed to have the job were holding out/injured. I'm not sure what part of this you're struggling with.

And your argument sucks. Connolly has not started every game for which he was healthy. He'd never started a game until he became an injury replacement in both 2009 and 2010.

Seriously, you're just posting garbage at this point.

 

[ATippett56]

The real question is not whether or not the OL needs to be reworked, since it clearly has to be, but the best way to do it. My opinion is that it's best to replace one or two pieces at a time, rather than blow it up and start over.

So with Light, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur another year older, another year of wear and tear, another year of nagging injuries, and somehow all four will play better next year than this year let alone survive the regular season. Since all four players are in their thirties and some nearing mid thirty, I find it hard to believe that each will find their "fountain of youth". Ponce de Leon wasn't so lucky.

 

[bucky]

Yes, he WON the job by beating out the competition, coming out of camp (in other words, as opposed to losing the job and then being promoted due to injury), while Connolly got the job because the players who were supposed to have the job were holding out/injured. I'm not sure what part of this you're struggling with.

And your argument sucks. Connolly has not started every game for which he was healthy. He'd never started a game until he became an injury replacement in both 2009 and 2010.

Seriously, you're just posting garbage at this point.

Holy cow! Andruzzi was not in camp. He did not win any competition. He got the job by attrition of qualified individuals - the team had garbage on its OL. You know that. You're just posturing. In 2010, Connolly was a starter. There is not ifs ands or buts about it. He started 14 games at Guard on the best offense in the NFL.

 

[bucky]

So with Light, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur another year older, another year of wear and tear, another year of nagging injuries, and somehow all four will play better next year than this year let alone survive the regular season. Since all four players are in their thirties and some nearing mid thirty, I find it hard to believe that each will find their "fountain of youth". Ponce de Leon wasn't so lucky.

Light and Koppen - there is no reason why their production should decline over the next 2 years. They have not had a history of significant injuries. 32 and 33 is not so old for OL.

Kaczur - don't know about his back. But if his surgery is successful, there's not reason why his age should affect him. He's only had 5 seasons' worth of NFL "wear and tear". BB obviously didn't think he'd be too old. He signed him through 2012.

Neal - can't be counted on for more than half the season. However, Connolly/Neal duo at RG is perfectly fine with me.

 

[ATippett56]

Light and Koppen - there is no reason why their production should decline over the next 2 years.

So Light's performance this season is not a source of concern?

ProFootballWeekly.com - Matt Light

Matt Light goes from 2 sacks allowed in 2009 to 10 sacks allowed in 2010. Matt Light turns 33 next season and since when is a football player's prime year at the age of 33.

ProFootballWeekly.com - Dan Koppen

Dan Koppen goes from 1.5 sacks allowed in 2010 to 5.5 sacks allowed in 2010. Dan Koppen turns 32 next season and since when is a football player's prime year at the age of 32.

Face the facts, both players are on the downslope of their careers. Adalius Thomas, Jarvis Green, Shawn Springs, Derrick Burgess played their last year with the New England Patriots in 2009 and disappeared like a comet in 2010, completely out of the NFL altogether.

 

[ATippett56]

Kaczur - don't know about his back. But if his surgery is successful, there's not reason why his age should affect him. He's only had 5 seasons' worth of NFL "wear and tear". BB obviously didn't think he'd be too old. He signed him through 2012.

Nick Kaczur turns 32 years of age prior to the start of the 2011 NFL Season. Not exactly a spring chicken either.

 

[bucky]

So Light's performance this season is not a source of concern?

ProFootballWeekly.com - Matt Light

Matt Light goes from 2 sacks allowed in 2009 to 10 sacks allowed in 2010. Matt Light turns 33 next season and since when is a football player's prime year at the age of 33.

ProFootballWeekly.com - Dan Koppen

Dan Koppen goes from 1.5 sacks allowed in 2010 to 5.5 sacks allowed in 2010. Dan Koppen turns 32 next season and since when is a football player's prime year at the age of 32.

Face the facts, both players are on the downslope of their careers. Adalius Thomas, Jarvis Green, Shawn Springs, Derrick Burgess played their last year with the New England Patriots in 2009 and disappeared like a comet in 2010, completely out of the NFL altogether.

I don't know how these guys put together their sack stats. But regardless of whether they're accurate, I don't really care. If you just go off these stats, Dan Connolly is a heck of a lot better than Logan Mankins. That just shows how meaningless sack stats are.

I know that the team was #1 in offense, was great in both rushing and passing game, and like you say - the trenches are an important part of that.

ProFootballWeekly.com - Dan Connolly

ProFootballWeekly.com - Logan Mankins

 

[Shelterdog]

So Light's performance this season is not a source of concern?

Pro football weekly credits Connolly with giving up zero sacks. So either he's AWESOME or your metric sucks.

Light and Koppen are getting older and need to be replaced eventually. They're linemen so they'll probably last a little longer than players who rely on speed. But if you think that you can easily replace Light and Koppen with comparable or better players, you're sorely mistaken.

 

[bucky]

Nick Kaczur turns 32 years of age prior to the start of the 2011 NFL Season. Not exactly a spring chicken either.

If healthy, he should hold his level of play for another 2-3 years. By the way, I've never been a huge Kaczur fan. So converting to Guard might actually be a good thing for him.

 

[Ron Sellers]

In any case, (A) one of the key points about the OL is that BB seems to prefer evolution to revolution, and (B) 3/5 of the line, at a minimum, is going to have to be replaced in the next couple of years.

The real question is not whether or not the OL needs to be reworked, since it clearly has to be, but the best way to do it. My opinion is that it's best to replace one or two pieces at a time, rather than blow it up and start over.

I'm totally with you on this. One thing that about the performance of offensive lines is their time together; their ability to work as a cohesive unit. That comes from playing together over a long period of time; offensive lines that have not played together very long are almost always less talented than the sum of their parts.

So with Light, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur another year older, another year of wear and tear, another year of nagging injuries, and somehow all four will play better next year than this year let alone survive the regular season. Since all four players are in their thirties and some nearing mid thirty, I find it hard to believe that each will find their "fountain of youth". Ponce de Leon wasn't so lucky.

Did you even read what ctpatsfan77 said before you responded? It's as if you're reacting to a comment that wasn't even made. Check the two paragraphs again, or at least the two sentences I bolded for you.

Are you trying to imply that the Patriots' offensive line will be better off with none of those four players returning? If you do think that is the case - that blowing the whole thing up and starting all over is a better plan than changing one or two pieces at a time - then I'm very curious who you would suggest their four replacements would be.

 

[ATippett56]

Pro football weekly credits Connolly with giving up zero sacks. So either he's AWESOME or your metric sucks.

Light and Koppen are getting older and need to be replaced eventually. They're linemen so they'll probably last a little longer than players who rely on speed. But if you think that you can easily replace Light and Koppen with comparable or better players, you're sorely mistaken.

With regard to Matt Light, I would offer a one year contract extension with a two year option. Dan Koppen is under contract for another year. However as was the case in 2008, the New England Patriots drafted Sebastian Vollmer in the second round to groom him as the next left tackle or right tackle for the New England Patriots. The time has come to draft the next offensive tackle to be the eventually starter either in 2012 or 2013. As for Stephen Neal's replacement, now is the time to draft his successor and Dan Connolly is not the answer.

 

[Deus Irae]

Holy cow! Andruzzi was not in camp. He did not win any competition. He got the job by attrition of qualified individuals - the team had garbage on its OL. You know that. You're just posturing. In 2010, Connolly was a starter. There is not ifs ands or buts about it. He started 14 games at Guard on the best offense in the NFL.

I'm not posturing. You're just not grasping the painfully obvious.

Andruzzi, who'd started games prior to his arrival in New England, WON THE JOB because he was better than the competition of the full, healthy roster. He went on to hold the job for years.

Connolly, who'd never started a game prior to his arrival in New England, was a backup, and got the job due to injury/holdout in 2009. In the offseason, he was AGAIN made the backup, and was the #3 choice, behind Mankins and Kaczur. Mankins held out, and Kaczur got hurt, which is why Connolly was a holdout/injury replacement, and not the intended starter or the winner of a training camp against the intended starter/1st backup.


I'm sorry that you can't figure out the difference there.

 

[ATippett56]

Are you trying to imply that the Patriots' offensive line will be better off with none of those four players returning? If you do think that is the case - that blowing the whole thing up and starting all over is a better plan than changing one or two pieces at a time - then I'm very curious who you would suggest their four replacements would be.

With regard to Matt Light, I would offer a one year contract extension with a two year option. Dan Koppen is under contract for another year. However as was the case in 2008, the New England Patriots drafted Sebastian Vollmer in the second round to groom him as the next left tackle or right tackle for the New England Patriots. The time has come to draft the next offensive tackle to be the eventually starter either in 2012 or 2013. As for Stephen Neal's replacement, now is the time to draft his successor and Dan Connolly is not the answer.

 

[Ron Sellers]

With regard to Matt Light, I would offer a one year contract extension with a two year option.

I seriously doubt Light would agree to such an offer.

 

[Ron Sellers]

With regard to Matt Light, I would offer a one year contract extension with a two year option. Dan Koppen is under contract for another year. However as was the case in 2008, the New England Patriots drafted Sebastian Vollmer in the second round to groom him as the next left tackle or right tackle for the New England Patriots. The time has come to draft the next offensive tackle to be the eventually starter either in 2012 or 2013. As for Stephen Neal's replacement, now is the time to draft his successor and Dan Connolly is not the answer.

So with what picks are you going to draft all these players? How many (and which) offensive linemen are on your 2011 roster?

 

[ATippett56]

I seriously doubt Light would agree to such an offer.

The alternative is to move Sebastian Vollmer to left tackle, draft another offensive tackle no later than the 33rd overall selection, pray that Nick Kaczur recovers from back surgery. If Belichick is willing to part ways with Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Richard Seymour due to contract negotiations, I envision it would be no different with Matt Light. Besides, I would rather give the money to a younger Logan Mankins than an older Matt Light, given the choice.

 

[ATippett56]

So with what picks are you going to draft all these players?

2011 NFL Draft

#17 Cameron Jordan, 3-4 DE from California
#28 Mike Pouncey, OG from Florida or Danny Watkins, OG from Baylor
#33 Best available offensive tackle on the board
#60 Sam Acho, 3-4 OLB from Texas or Jarvis Jenkins, 3-4 DE from Clemson or Rahim Moore, FS from UCLA
#74 Sam Acho, 3-4 OLB from Texas or Jarvis Jenkins, 3-4 DE from Clemson or Rahim Moore, FS from UCLA

NFL Draft Scout----Powered By: The Sports Xchange

2011 Free Agents

1. Logan Mankins
2. Kamerion Wimbley (3-4 Outside Linebacker)
3. Matt Light (1 year contract, 2 year option)
4. Wide Receiver

 

[ATippett56]

How many (and which) offensive linemen are on your 2011 roster?

LT - Sebastian Vollmer
LG - Logan Mankins
C - Dan Koppen
RG - Mike Pouncey, Florida or Danny Watkins, Baylor
RT - #33 Overall Selection or Nick Kaczur

Backups
#33 Overall Selection or Nick Kaczur
Wendell or Ohrnberger
Connolly (ugh!)
5th or 6th Round Draft Selection

Wendell or Orhnberger or Connolly can also be replaced with a relatively inexpensive veteran free agent.

 

[Deus Irae]

LT - Sebastian Vollmer
LG - Logan Mankins
C - Dan Koppen
RG - Mike Pouncey, Florida or Danny Watkins, Baylor
RT - #33 Overall Selection or Nick Kaczur

Backups
#33 Overall Selection or Nick Kaczur
Wendell or Ohrnberger
Connolly (ugh!)
5th or 6th Round Draft Selection

Wendell or Orhnberger or Connolly can also be replaced with a relatively inexpensive veteran free agent.

You want to start two rookies on the right side of the line?




Time to pre-order Brady's casket.