145 days later...I re-watched SB 52

[TheRainMaker]

McDaniels



You're new here, but you're speaking of a forum population in which roughly half of the board convinced themselves that there was nothing wrong with the 2009 unit, that the 2010 defense was a quality one because of turnovers, that the 2011 defense was good enough citing the pedestrian points allowed ranking, that there was nothing wrong with the 2012 defense (pre-Talib) and that McCourty was doing a fine job as a corner at the beginning of the season, that the WR corps going into the 2013 season was good enough and that Dobson and Thompkins were going to make the leap as rookies, that the interior pass protection in 2014 and 2015 weren't issues, and finally that the defense in 2017 was a top 10 unit.

Wow, that’s amazing that people think that the defense has been good since 2009. They have been terrible since 2008. The only years that they were good were 2014-16.

I mean there was clearly reasons why they had such a massive drought from winning a Super Bowl since 2004. I can’t imagine what they could actually blame it else on.

I find it ironic that the person that was benched in the Super Bowl was the person that ended the 10 year drought for the Patriots. Had they not won that game, I believe they would have layed down when it was 28-3 to the game against Atlanta. Their confidence would have been shot.

 

[Kontradiction]

Oh, I’m not saying Butler wouldn’t have helped us win. I am saying Butler wouldn’t have helped shut Philly down. Maybe the Pats win 40-30 if he were there and played to his capabilities. We saw the Pats D get lit up multiple times in 2017 with Butler.

In the Super Bowl, I don't give a rat's ass about shutting the other team down. It would be nice, but all I care about is allowing the opponent less than what the offense scores in that game. Particularly if the offense has a record-setting effort.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Oh, I’m not saying Butler wouldn’t have helped us win. I am saying Butler wouldn’t have helped shut Philly down. Maybe the Pats win 40-30 if he were there and played to his capabilities. We saw the Pats D get lit up multiple times in 2017 with Butler.

Had the coaching staff put Gilmore on Jefrey the entire game and Butler on Agahlor, it would’ve been a different game. Agahlor is a pedestrian receiver.

 

[Kontradiction]

Wow, that’s amazing that people think that the defense has been good since 2009. They have been terrible since 2008. The only years that they were good were 2014-16.

I mean there was clearly reasons why they had such a massive drought from winning a Super Bowl since 2004. I can’t imagine what they could actually blame it else on.

I find it ironic that the person that was benched in the Super Bowl was the person that ended the 10 year drought for the Patriots. Had they not won that game, I believe they would have layed down when it was 28-3 to the game against Atlanta. Their confidence would have been shot.

2013's unit was pretty good as well. The 2012 unit was better after Talib, but the LBs were still a liability.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

In the Super Bowl, I don't give a rat's ass about shutting the other team down. It would be nice, but all I care about is allowing the opponent less than what the offense scores in that game. Particularly if the offense has a record-setting effort.

I agree, but I was speaking to the quality of the D overall in 2017, not the Super Bowl result. If Butler plays and the Pats win, it doesn’t erase what was an average D last year (at least in my opinion).

Fortunately, we are getting reinforcements in Hightower, Clayborne and Shelton for this season.

 

[aluminum seats]

They gave up 42 points vs KC and 33 each against Houston and Carolina.

We saw the Pats D get lit up multiple times in 2017 with Butler.

KC 42 points…September 7

Houston 33 points…September 24

Panthers 33 points…October 1

No team cracked 30 against the Patriots after October 1.

I swear to god, I’d like to leave this alone, I really would. Let the healing begin. So please stop with the nonsense.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

KC 42 points…September 7

Houston 33 points…September 24

Panthers 33 points…October 1

No team cracked 30 against the Patriots after October 1.

I swear to god, I’d like to leave this alone, I really would. Let the healing begin. So please stop with the nonsense.

I’ll take the last word then. Look at the schedule after October 1. They faced the Falcons/Steelers and a bunch of average to below average teams. There is a reason why the defense “improved” over the last 3 months.

 

[aluminum seats]

I’ll take the last word then. Look at the schedule after October 1. They faced the Falcons/Steelers and a bunch of average to below average teams. There is a reason why the defense “improved” over the last 3 months.

The Patriot’s defense does typically improve over the season, and last year was no exception.

 

[captain stone]

Oh, I’m not saying Butler wouldn’t have helped us win. I am saying Butler wouldn’t have helped shut Philly down. Maybe the Pats win 40-30 if he were there and played to his capabilities. We saw the Pats D get lit up multiple times in 2017 with Butler.

Butler would indeed not have helped the defense Shut Down the iggles, but he would have Absolutely forced AT LEAST one more punt from them, and that's about all we would've needed.

 

[borg]

Patricia has always been overrated as a D-coordinator. His defense in SB 51 was not great either.

Critiquing NE's D is always tough......Belichick removed so much talent over the past couple years. Defensive depth was a major concern going into training camp and into the season. The D line was JAGgy. The LB corp had no depth. The team's strength was supposed to be their secondary....and it gelled nicely over time....until it didn't.
I personally hate BB's bend 'n break philosophy ....it displeases my senses....but I get it. Like a casino, sooner or later the house will win due to mistakes, attrition, odds. This philosophy can overcome lack of talent to a certain extent....but not this time.

 

[borg]

The Patriot’s defense does typically improve over the season, and last year was no exception.

I'll offer a response once my neck heals from the excessive strain of watching aerial bombs fly overhead into Eagle talons.

PS....there are flyers still posted around town that read: Missing....Patriots Pass Rush

PSS.....Nick Fu#*ing Foles......SuperBowl MVP

 

[aluminum seats]

I'll offer a response once my neck heals from the excessive strain of watching aerial bombs fly overhead into Eagle talons.

PS....there are flyers still posted around town that read: Missing....Patriots Pass Rush

PSS.....Nick Fu#*ing Foles......SuperBowl MVP

Right...the Super Bowl was the exception because Bill Belichick didn’t play Malcolm Butler...I think this point may have come up before..

 

[maust]

Right...the Super Bowl was the exception because Bill Belichick didn’t play Malcolm Butler...I think this point may have come up before..

Please discuss...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Right...the Super Bowl was the exception because Bill Belichick didn’t play Malcolm Butler...I think this point may have come up before..

Without a pass rush (ie- hightower, sheard, nink, and long) you can beat the miamis and jets of league. However, you’re going to have a tough time against quality teams. This is exactly what happened last year. And improvement isn’t about numbers alone. It’s about improving against good opponents.

 

[aluminum seats]

Without a pass rush (ie- hightower, sheard, nink, and long) you can beat the miamis and jets of league. However, you’re going to have a tough time against quality teams. This is exactly what happened last year. And improvement isn’t about numbers alone. It’s about improving against good opponents.

I think benching a starting cornerback was a bigger issue than Sheard not playing...

 

[ralmat55]

Actually it was the same defense except Rowe was in Butlers place. The SS and FS played the same roles all season in the big nickel that they played in the SB. Suggesting they were out of position is ignorant when they did all season when we played a boatload of big nickel.

Actually you’re wrong. The Patriots did play a ton of big nickel with Chung playing the Star in it. But, they played it on 1st or 2nd down. On likely passing downs, they would switch out to a regular nickel or a dime package all season long.

It makes a big difference not having that third CB out there. 3rd down is where matchups matter most and the Eagles used and abused the Chung and McCourty matchups on 3rd downs especially in the 2nd half once they realized the advantage Bill Belichick ‘s anger and arrogance had given them.

Watch the game. The film doesn’t lie.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think benching a starting cornerback was a bigger issue than Sheard not playing...

It’s not just sheard. It’s sheard, hightower, long and ninkovich missing from the 2016 squad. Besides, the defense wasn’t exactly impressive with Butler playing against KC, Carolina and Houston. Maybe he was part of the problem.

 

[maust]

Actually you’re wrong.... .

Watch the game. The film doesn’t lie.

Film, like most anything factual, looks a little different on Planet Andy.

 

[FCB02062]

Still can't believe Pats lost to the ****ing Philadelphia Eagles and a back up quarterback...it's really hitting home AGAIN as i watch the nfc div round on nfl network now....they scored 15 ****king points AT HOME vs Atlanta and we're a julio Jones slip in the end zone away from watching the playoffs "on yo' couch".

 

[Ring 6]

Actually you’re wrong. The Patriots did play a ton of big nickel with Chung playing the Star in it. But, they played it on 1st or 2nd down. On likely passing downs, they would switch out to a regular nickel or a dime package all season long.

No I am right. The big nickel and 4 safety dime were the same packages they played all season when they played them.
The choice not to use regular nickel doesn’t mean players we’re out of position in the scheme.

It makes a big difference not having that third CB out there. 3rd down is where matchups matter most and the Eagles used and abused the Chung and McCourty matchups on 3rd downs especially in the 2nd half once they realized the advantage Bill Belichick ‘s anger and arrogance had given them.

Watch the game. The film doesn’t lie.

Again we could debate whether a different package would have been more effective but that doesn’t mean players were playing out of position because they weren’t.