Patriots Local News:

SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:Boston Sports Journal


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:Boston Herald


SOURCE:Boston Herald


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:MASSLive


SOURCE:MASSLive


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:Boston Herald


SOURCE:Boston Sports Journal


SOURCE:Boston Herald


SOURCE:ProFootballTalk.com


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports

Patsfans.com


Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: Dolphins
Sun
Sep 30th
Right Now At PatsFans.com:
Knocked Down
Sunday's loss to the Jaguars was a tough blow, but one that will likely make the Patriots better in the coming months.


Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

145 days later...I re-watched SB 52

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Kenneth Sims, Jul 1, 2018.

  1. Kenneth Sims

    Kenneth Sims PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    681
    Ratings:
    +1,238
    It has been a long and tumultuous offseason during which many of us have developed strong opinions about what happened in that game and it’s impact on the future of the Patriots franchise.

    I recorded the game on DVR to help celebrate a victory. I kept it with the intention of reviewing it someday to see if what I thought I saw really happened. These are my observations :

    1. Who made the decision to wear the white uniforms even though the Pats were the home team? I can’t imagine Bill Belichick would give a moment of his time to nonsense like streaks or superstitions.
    2. Malcolm Butler was included in the starting lineup as presented by NBC before the teams took the field. After the teams came out, I briefly saw him jumping in place slapping hands with teammates. The next time the camera showed him he was holding his fingers to his eyes fighting back tears.
    3. The Eagles offense was not as overwhelming as I originally thought. It was big plays and vital 3rd down conversations that sustained their offense.
    4. LaGarrette Blount had two long runs that were killers with one going for a touchdown.
    5. Eric Rowe did not play as badly has I thought. The Alshon Jeffery TD was a great throw by Foles. Kind of a back shoulder fade 30 yards away in the end zone. No way anyone defends that. However, Jeffery pretty much disappeared once they put Gilmore on him.
    6. Dion Lewis should have played more. It was much like it was when we had LGB as our RB. Lewis was in there only when he was going run it. Tells like that do not help an offense. It got better in the 2nd half when Rex Burkhead entered the game as they both threw it to him and had him run it. Speaking of tells, on the failed 3rd down reverse with Brandin Cooks, Brandon Bolden was the RB. If that didn’t tell the Eagles D that something tricky was going to be run, nothing would.
    7. Jordan Richards is not a bum or whatever derogatory name the tough talkers on this forum want to call him. He graduated from Stanford and likely has a future we would all kill for. But, he can’t play pro football. He was almost single handily responsible for two huge plays in the first half. He was lined up in the box on Ajaya’s long run in the 2nd quarter. The Philly guard rag dolled him down the field so badly it slowed down backside pursuit. Richards also had coverage on the Clement wheel route just before the half which set up Foles’ TD reception. An NFL safety should not have been beaten so badly on that play.
    8. By the middle of the 2nd quarter, I had noticed that every time Bill Belichick was on camera he was standing all alone. Hmmm
    9. Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski are the two best players I’ve seen in Patriots’ uniforms at any position in my lifetime.
    10. The vaunted Philly defense is trash. Their DL actually effected Brady in the pocket less than the Patriots effected Foles. The Patriots OL was beaten quickly on only one play the entire game. We all remember that play.
    11. By the middle of the 3rd quarter, The Eagles offense was held in check except for two mismatches which they exploited time and time again for 1st downs. Nelson Agholor’s speed and quickness allowed him to beat Pat Chung so badly on one play that he was still able to handle a bad Foles’ pass for a big gain. Agholor made several 3rd down receptions including the one where Johnson Bademosi whiffed so badly on a tackle which should have brought a 4th down.
    12. Finally a camera shot of Coach Belichick not alone. He engaged a huddle of defensive players and a discussion with Matt Patricia was shown. As the Patriots drove for their go ahead TD, the camera caught Josh McDaniels walking behind Belichick as the Pats matriculated down the field. They did not converse or even acknowledge one another.
    12. The mismatch the Eagles exploited the most was the size and strength advantage the 6’5” 250 lb Zach Ertz had against the 5’10” 195 lb Devin McCourty. McCourty had no choice but to play off Ertz. On the 4th down conversion on the game winning drive, McCourty lined up 5 yards off Ertz who ran a shallow crossing route. McCourty got caught up in traffic (picked) and knocked on his ass. Trey Flowers’s quick pressure and Duron Harmon’s anticipation almost stopped it but didn’t. On the go ahead touchdown, Ertz lined up outside with McCourty 6 yards off with even or outside leverage. McCourty had no chance when Ertz ran a quick slant. Touchdown. Why didn’t the Pats just move McCourty who once made a Pro Bowl as a CB to the star position where he would have matched up better against Agholar’s speed Chung to play his normal position?
    13. As the Patriots ‘s offense took the field twice with hopes of taking the lead back or desperately trying to tie it at the end, the cameras showed no interaction between the Head Coach, his long-time OC, and his QB of 17 seasons with whom he had shared 5 Super Bowl championships. No exhortation to succeed. No consolation when they failed. I’ve since watched the Sound FX of the game thinking the NFL’s cameras and microphones captured more, but they didn’t. The Patricia conversation showed Belichick asking Matty P. dispassionately whether he thought he needed to bring more pressure. I then watched the Sound FXs of Super Bowls 49 and 51. The contrast could not have been more striking.

    We’re all entitled to our opinions as to what happened that day and what it portends for the future. But, the film unfortunately doesn’t lie.
     
    • Useful Useful x 12
    • Like Like x 5
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1

  2. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    28,315
    Likes Received:
    3,752
    Ratings:
    +17,183
    Great breakdown, Kenneth, but what exactly are you insinuating in the last paragraph?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Mark.

    Mark. PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    186
    Ratings:
    +1,117
    You're a better man than I am. I have yet to rewatch any of the Superbowl losses. Although, this one felt so weird that I may eventually watch it again. That game felt so winnable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  4. maust1013

    maust1013 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,307
    Likes Received:
    865
    Ratings:
    +4,711
    There was so much that went wrong on D in that game that books could be written about it. It was the antithesis of XXXVI where the defensive game plan and execution were close to flawless. I have to give you props for bringing up the Bademosi whiff, in a game rife with defensive failures to me that play was as emblematic of the D in LII as McGinest manhandling Faulk was in XXXVI. The play was there to be made, it just wasn't.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  5. 102 Pat

    102 Pat In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    4,820
    Likes Received:
    589
    Ratings:
    +3,164
    For #8, isn't he alone on the sidelines for the most part besides the occasional interaction with McDaniels and Patricia when he's not interacting with the defense?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    6,615
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    Ratings:
    +6,418
    How did Butler end up playing?

    (OK sorry I’ll stop.)
     
    • Funny Funny x 9
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    26,722
    Likes Received:
    4,559
    Ratings:
    +25,450
    Good lord you are a glutton for punishment! :eek: I don't think I can look at that game ever again, even for five minutes -- life is too short. But more power to you for staring into the abyss.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Kenneth Sims

    Kenneth Sims PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    681
    Ratings:
    +1,238
    Thank you supafly. I would not have been able to do it if I hadn’t muted the broadcast. Nothing is worth listening to 4 hours of Chris Collingsworth again.

    The lack of interaction with coaches and players is something I didn’t notice when watching it initially. I mean it wasn’t that he just wasn’t talking to people standing around him, but there was not anyone near him.

    It didn’t seem normal which is why I watched the Sound Fx episodes to confirm. It’s not normal compared to the Fx episodes I watched where Belichick was constantly seen conversing with coaches, players and officials. There were two Philly touchdowns reviewed that could have gone either way. The norm would be for Belichick to be seen in the face of officials planting the seeds of reversing the calls. He was not shown interacting with Gene Steratore at all throughout the game or the side judge.

    I would really like others to re-watch the game, come to their own conclusions and share them with us. I’ve been rooting for Bill Belichick since 1983 when he was the Giants DC. I want to still root for him, but I’ve grown to see him in a different light the more I’ve played this over in my head. That’s why I re-watched the game.

    I’ve posted on many occasions that Belichick didn’t have good reason to bench Butler, and the benching most likely came out of Belichick penchant for anger and vengefulness directed at Bob Kraft from stopping his plan of succession from Brady to Garappolo. Those of us who have followed the breadth and width of Belichick’s career know he had a reputation of a controlling manipulator who had trouble getting along with people as well as an almost total disregard for what others thought of him. That is why he was slow to get a HC position despite his success as Giants DC. His tenure in Cleveland only strengthened the negative way he was seen throughout the NFL.

    Belichick is a brilliant football genius. But, as history has shown, madness usually accompanies genius. Heck, he had not committed any crimes, drowned any puppies or abused woman, children or the elderly, so I could look past the other stuff as long as he won games.

    Knowing his reputation, I could see him being motivated by Kraft’s tampering with his authority to rub it in Kraft’s face that Kraft might be able to tell him who’s on the team but He controls who plays. Even with this,I did not believe Belichick intentionally sabotaged his team’s chances of winning the game. Belichick has that special conceit that most successful people have that no matter what they know they will succeed.

    I still believe that but the lack of interaction sure makes it look like Belichick benched Butler and then benched himself. I’m not really sure anymore.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. maust1013

    maust1013 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,307
    Likes Received:
    865
    Ratings:
    +4,711
    Go back and look at the end of XLIX when the clock was running before the Butler play. IIRC here wasn't anyone within 5 yards of him then either. Your comments in the thread linked below about his failures and how he gets away with murder, even drafted a murderer, how Halberstam didn't rake him over the coals for things that happened in the 2010's in a book written in 2005 and the business about his wife make your anti Belichick agenda pretty clear.

    https://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/michael-lombardi-bill-belichick-gridiron-genious.1144790/
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  10. Kenneth Sims

    Kenneth Sims PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    681
    Ratings:
    +1,238
    I will take your word on no one being in the camera frame with Belichick before the Butler interception. I did not rewatch SB 49 rather just the Sound FX of the game. But, just because you remember or found one particular moment where Belichick is alone in the picture and want to compare it to a whole game with minimal interaction is an absurd comparison.

    Why would I hate Bill Belichick? This is where you’d accuse me of being a Jets fan or some other monstrosity. You probably would not be impressed by the longevity of my fandom, so I’ll express my Pats fan credentials this way. I’ve been to 4 of the Patriots last 5 home playoff games screaming my lungs out after traveling all day to get there in seats that I paid vastly too much for because I wanted to be there.

    I wanted Bob Kraft to hire Belichick when Parcells left. Kept a month long vigil in January 2000 hoping Kraft would buy Belichick out of his Jets contract. I’ve been an admirer of the his coaching genius and overall brilliance for three and a half decades. But, I admire the real man not the idealized super hero so many of you want him to be and have convinced yourself he is.

    Seeking a sense of security in an insecure world, humankind has always been prone to exalting successful leaders to a God-like status. Those leaders are not be questioned or challenged the mob cries. This is why humankind has spent most of its existence governed my malevolent and oppressive rule.

    I think I’ve enjoyed watching Belichick manipulate the media as much as watching him crawl into the minds of other teams. He stiff arms the media giving as little useful information as possible. Sometimes he brings them them in for a hug and shares a master class in left footed punting but he always knows they need information to report so he makes himself the only source of information and doles it out as needed to serve his agenda.

    The guy who you think cares little about how he’s seen actually succeeds in getting to paint his own portrait. This is why I posted as I did in the other thread. I’m not interested in any more puff pieces. It’s a shame Halberstam died. Perhaps, Bill the historian would have out of respect let him tell the full story - good and bad, success or failure, flesh and blood.

    Here’s the truth to all Belichick fan boys and girls. He’s just a man. A wonderfully brilliant man who messed up big. A man who could have accepted it when the owner who against advice gave him his job and let him do as he wished intervened to stop him from prematurely moving on from the Greatest Quarterback in the history of the game who still is playing as well if not better than he ever has.

    But, the great man was too little to handle it right. In a pique of anger and vindictiveness, he benched a season long starter who he never liked very much without adequate replacement. This action cost his players and staff a Super Bowl championship they deserved. It will in short time cost him a good deal of his reputation and legacy and his job as HC of the NEP. If Bob Kraft can put all these pieces back together, he should be awarded a Nobel Peace Prize.

    He can’t. Belichick will be shown the door and all his worshippers will come out to complain. Brady will be blamed. How dare he want to keep his job when he’s still playing as well as ever, they’ll say. They’ll blame Giselle and Alex and probably Mr. and Mrs. Brady too. They’ll blame the Krafts for forcing out their football god. They’ll threaten to leave and some will as they’re more Belichick fan than Patriots fan. The only one to blame is the coach who threw a still good thing away for the sake of foolish pride.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  11. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Josh Gordon's locker is next to Brady's. PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    45,154
    Likes Received:
    6,133
    Ratings:
    +37,974
    McCourty didn’t move to the STAR position because the Patriots were in a ton of man and McCourty has never shown the confidence to get his head around in man and look for the ball. He should have been the deep safety. Chung should have been on Ertz and Butler should have been the #2 corner. But, because he wasn’t, it severely handicapped how the coaching staff could utilize their personnel back there.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Ratings:
    +11,597
    Patricia has always been overrated as a D-coordinator. His defense in SB 51 was not great either.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. lancerman

    lancerman Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    189
    Ratings:
    +1,315
    I mean he played the best passing offense in the NFL and his defense only gave up 21 points (pick six was one of the scores) shut out the Falcons for most of the second half, and his defense got a crucial strip sack and sack to knock them out of field goal range that we absolutely needed to win. The offense in the first 3 quarters was more of an issue.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  14. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    43,063
    Likes Received:
    4,234
    Ratings:
    +24,005
    Dude you really need to stop.
    Your entire premise is a lie. It has been refuted across the board, in addition to being stupid, that Belichick wanted to get rid of Brady. You are clowning yourself by buying into that lie and then searching for even more stupid ways to back it up.
    How many seconds was Belichick on your tv screen during this 4 hour game? Is his headset connected to jimmy buffet songs?
    Perhaps soap operas are more you style than football.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Ratings:
    +11,597
    It’s not always about the points. It’s also about yards allowed and getting off the field on third downs. I mean do you really think a defense (in general) that gives up 99 yards on a drive that results in a field goal did its job?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. patriot1136

    patriot1136 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,504
    Likes Received:
    309
    Ratings:
    +1,321
    To the OP, I was wondering if you saw anything more specific regarding the Eagles' touchdowns? Like the Ertz and Clement touchdowns, should they have been overturned?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. SammyBlueCat

    SammyBlueCat PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,331
    Likes Received:
    1,789
    Ratings:
    +6,457
    Thanks for the analysis.

    I'm going in for a root canal.

    Anyone want to join me?
     
    • Funny Funny x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,679
    Likes Received:
    332
    Ratings:
    +1,817
    The Falcons were 1-8 on 3rd down in that game. This isn't to defend Patricia but pick another game as an example of his shortcomings because this wasn't one of them. Holding a top 10 all time offense to 21 points, 344 yards, 1-8 on 3rd down and completely shut down in the 4th quarter isn't a game I would point to as a letdown.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Ratings:
    +11,597
    Maybe i’m being too critical, but there were too many big plays by atlanta’s offense to my liking.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,679
    Likes Received:
    332
    Ratings:
    +1,817
    I think all of us would have liked less big plays allowed in that game. But again, it was a top 10 all time offense. Pick your battles.
     

Share This Page

Search For Links: - CLOSE
For searches with multiple players
add commas (Ex: "Brady, Gronkowski")