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Did Kraft put BB on notice?


Holy ****! You got that one wrong! Imagine a unanimous NFL MVP QB being asked to play another position because "he sucks at QB"!?! LMFAO

Wozzy's Lamar Jackson pre-draft assessment:

"I think he could "appear" really good, he could look like young Michael Vick... and just like Vick he will be fool's gold. He will win some regular season games but unless he has the perfect situation around him won't sniff the Super Bowl. You have to be able to pass accurately to beat NFL caliber playoff defenses... passing is important." - Wozzy, Apr 23, 2018

Lamar's Career Playoff Totals: 1-3 Record, 56% Completions, 3td's/5 INT's, 6.62 Yards Per Passing Attempt, 19 Sacks, 5 fumbles, 68.3 QB Rating.

Vick’s Career Playoff Totals: 2-4 Record, 56% Completions, 5 TD’s/4 INT’s, 6.93 Yards Per Pass Attempt, 11 Sacks, 4 Fumbles, 77.6 Rating

Hahaha... yeah, I got that wrong.
 
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This is outright wrong, and the offensive line allowing the 49ers to sack Rogers five times had a lot to do with the six punts GB attempted. You’re suggesting the QB is solely responsible for scoring, that’s not how football works.
Don't you get tired of using these same rhetorical/ argumentative tactics?

Do you even realize that you are doing it?
 
Don't you get tired of using these same rhetorical/ argumentative tactics?

Do you even realize that you are doing it?
QB's aren't responsible for the sun rising in the morning, for the tide coming in and going out. QB's don't play in a vacuum, they don't win or lose on their own... that's fan misconception.

Coaching, scheme, execution, blocking, injuries, weather, opponents, weapons, defense, special teams... there's a myriad of things that have to go right for a team to win.

"Durrr... Aaron Rogers bad" is reductionist nonsense.

The guy has won too many playoff games, has too many TD's, has a 100.1 QB postseason rating and a shiny ring on his finger that makes that take nonsense.
 
QB's aren't responsible for the sun rising in the morning, for the tide coming in and going out. QB's don't play in a vacuum, they don't win or lose on their own... that's fan misconception.

Coaching, scheme, execution, blocking, injuries, weather, opponents, weapons, defense, special teams... there's a myriad of things that have to go right for a team to win.

"Durrr... Aaron Rogers bad" is reductionist nonsense.

The guy has won too many playoff games, has too many TD's, has a 100.1 QB postseason rating and a shiny ring on his finger that makes that take nonsense.
Dude you are not getting my point.

You CONSTANTLY intentionally exagerrate someone else's point and give overly general cliches to counter their argument.

Again: do you realize are doing this constantly in these discussions?
 
So that's it? 4 games and you're done with him lol. He had 500 yards alone in one of those games (set a postseason record). Only Mahomes has a better regular season winning percentage than Lamar since 2018. He knows how to win football games, and eventually it will translate to the postseason, especially if he lands in a better situation with some real talent around him so he can maximize his overall potential as a quarterback. He's a tremendous football player, we already know that.
But "getting a better team around him" is going to be the issue for Lamar or ANY team with a 50MM dollar/yr. QB., especially when you are going to lose significant draft assets as well. HE's the guy who is going to have to SIGNIFICANTLY change the style he plays if he is going to have a 15-20 year career we'd all like to see.

We were all witness to the fast decline of the 30 year old Cam Newton, who as every bit as dynamic 2 way QB as Jackson though much bigger, if slower. He went from a guy with 400+ yd passing game vs Seattle, on the road ( and JE's single biggest passing yd game) to a guy who couldn't consistently hit a RB on a swing pass about 10 games later.

Yeah, I know that Jackson is more elusive and doesn't take on or dish out as many big hits as Cam did during his heyday. But the point is the same. Lamar has to vastly reduce his rushing attempts yet still produce enough offense to be a consistent superbowl contender. That doesnt mean he becomes a classic drop back QB who can scramble, but certainly NOT around 150 rushing attempts a year. Do we at least agree on THAT?

That would mean any team would be taking the risk that Jackson, who has been playing the same way since HS, will be able to evolve at least to SOME significant degree change the way he's played the game. OR does a team take a $150MM for 3 years risk that his organization can create a unique offense similar to what the Ravens did compete for a superbowl those year and MAYBE, just maybe, win one, knowing that at the end of those 3 years the effective years of your QB has left will be less than 4, by all accounts.

I know none of Jackson's injuries have been "serious", but hell, even an ACL isn't THAT serious now days. Just a bump in the road, compared to a concussion or throwing arm injury. I'm a living example of what amazing things they can due surgically. The changes I've seen myself in just the last 20 years in the vascular/cardiac area is simply STUNNING. Want keeps me off the Lamar bandwagon are the simple injuries that cost you games like sprains, dislocations, and bruises, plus the long term wear and tear that vast shorten the careers of even great QB's like Newton and Young
 
Yeah, I know that Jackson is more elusive and doesn't take on or dish out as many big hits as Cam did during his heyday. But the point is the same. Lamar has to vastly reduce his rushing attempts yet still produce enough offense to be a consistent superbowl contender. That doesnt mean he becomes a classic drop back QB who can scramble, but certainly NOT around 150 rushing attempts a year. Do we at least agree on THAT?
Firstly, not a Cam fan. Secondly, I want the same Jackson, same style, same pass/run distribution, that we've seen since he came into the league. He's 26, he's healthy, he's in his prime. If you completely wear out the tread on the tires by age 30 then at least you maxed him out for 3-5 more years. As I said before, I'll take 3 seasons of Jackson at his ceiling, even if I then have to spend the following 2 years in cap hell. It's worth the risk, even if it's "only" for a 3-year window of "consistent Super Bowl contention."

By the way, Lamar surprisingly doesn't take a lot of punishment considering the impressive number of running plays. He's faster, quicker, and more elusive then Cam was. Cam ran like fullback and relied heavily on his size. Lamar runs around and past defenders. Fields is similar.

The QB who really needs to curb the running plays, or at least tone it down a bit, is Allen, who has decent speed and elusiveness considering his size (same height as Cam at 6'5" and weighs only a bit less). Allen chooses to finish out his running plays like Earl Campbell, so he could work on avoiding some unnecessary collisions. Allen has the arm and passing game to still be enormously successful while staying in the pocket more. Lamar is an underrated passer by the haters on this forum but still he needs his running game to be the dynamic football player that he is (and will be).
 
Dude you are not getting my point.

You CONSTANTLY intentionally exagerrate someone else's point and give overly general cliches to counter their argument.

Again: do you realize are doing this constantly in these discussions?
You blamed Aaron Rogers for losing a playoff game in 2021 where his special teams unit turned the ball over twice, gave up half the field on a kick return, his offensive line allowed him to be sacked five times and his TE fumbled the ball into the opposing team's hands... and you want to me take you seriously?
 
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He should request a trade becuase there Cleary is issues there.. BB sung his praises last off season... is he singing them now?
What did Mac do last year that merits higher praise than he got after his rookie season, or even comparable praise? Did he show the second year jump that’s usually expected?
 
Holy ****! You got that one wrong! Imagine a unanimous NFL MVP QB being asked to play another position because "he sucks at QB"!?! LMFAO
How someone can post that thinking it's a W is beyond me. I wouldn't post anymore draft takes though.

Seems very out of touch if I'm being honest.
 
You blamed Aaron Rogers for losing a playoff game in 2021 where his special teams unit turned the ball over twice, gave up half the field on a kick return, his offensive line allowed him to be sacked five times and his TE fumbled the ball into the opposing team's hands... and you want to me take you seriously?
Too bad, maybe Rodgers should step up his postseason game every once and awhile. He's NOT clutch, which I realize is a word that goes completely over your head.

Aaron Rodgers Postseason

21 Games
11 Wins (52%)
2 Game-Winning Drives (9.5%)
1 Fourth-Quarter Comeback (4.8%)

Tom Brady Postseason

48 Games
35 Wins (73%)
14 Game-Winning Drives (29%)... including 6 of 7 in the SB
9 Fourth-Quarter Comebacks (19%)
 
Right now I believe that Mac CAN develop into a nice starting QB in the Kirk Cousins mode. Surround him with a quality team and as he gets better we can be a championship contender AND when it comes time to extend him he becomes a $25MM/yr QB not a 50MM one.
But at least for the next 3 years we will be able to surround him with better and better players
This feels like both a blessing and a curse.
We know what upside Carr and Cousins have/had.
The age-old question is do you want to accept good, or do you want to try for great?

Do we even have a path to get to great?
IMO Jackson isn't that path.
Yet still, IMO we aren't on a path to great, unless Mac discovers another level to his game.

BTW I think you'll find $25M/year gets you Geno Smith, not Cousins or Carr.
For those guys you're looking more at $37M/year.
Daniel Jones just got $40M/year.
By whatever metric you choose, "good not great" QBs are actually quite expensive.

Source: Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap
 
Scoring touchdowns is actually the job.

QB A - 4 passing touchdowns
QB B - 2 passing touchdowns, 2 rushing touchdowns
QB C - 3 rushing touchdowns, 1 passing touchdowns

They all did their job.

Chances are that "C" kept their defense off the field longer than "A" or "B" did.

Football is chess on turf, there are good reasons to want a strong running game.
 
RKK is the owner whose job is to maintain interest in his product. He is also a smart business man who ensured that there was a plan to address the issues from last year and has stated multiple times that BB makes football decisions. Ultimately he is a fan who sometimes talks like a fan. This is only a thing because there is nothing else for the media to talk about until the draft.

While it is fun to think about Lamar as a Patriot, the reality is that he would cost too much to get and pay to put a contending team on the field. The games would look different and be more exciting, the end results would be the same as the last couple of years.
I think you have the right point of view. The thing about the current flap that I find bothersome is that Kraft injected the Shula record issue into the discussion. That is not doing anyone any favors. He's reacting to the media ********, and that just amplifies it. He should be smart enough to STFU. Yet he wants to come across as being kewl, a billionaire mensch that still knows what's happening on sports radio, wears custom sneakers with his suits, dated younger women till he found an acceptable one that agreed to be his heir ehrm husband. Fans don't give a ****ing **** about how BB vs Shula works out over the next few seasons, they want to see quality football right now. He should be tuned into that, not the Shula ********.
 
Lamar may or may not be the answer but the question is... how did Mac play in his one playoff game?
 
Lamar may or may not be the answer but the question is... how did Mac play in his one playoff game?
Much better than Lamar Jackson did in his 1st playoff game.

 
It's lip service people. He's never gonna fire Bill.
 
Too bad, maybe Rodgers should step up his postseason game every once and awhile. He's NOT clutch, which I realize is a word that goes completely over your head.

Aaron Rodgers Postseason

21 Games
11 Wins (52%)
2 Game-Winning Drives (9.5%)
1 Fourth-Quarter Comeback (4.8%)

Tom Brady Postseason

48 Games
35 Wins (73%)
14 Game-Winning Drives (29%)... including 6 of 7 in the SB
9 Fourth-Quarter Comebacks (19%)
Don’t insert yourself in a conversation with more Brady ballwashing. We all know how great Tom was… he’s retired and nobody at all mentioned Tom. But it’s telling how you need to mention him and every turn and defend him from invisible enemies. Weird…
 


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