Mac Jones Says Patriots Offense Was Run by 3 People and nobody knew who was in charge

[Rob0729]

It was fortunate for us that Belichick was fired when he was, had he remained Drake Maye would be playing in Minnesota and the Patriots would still be without a franchise quarterback.

That may be very well true. Even the reports that Belichick would have rather not take Mac and take Davis Mills in the second round wasn't because he didn't think Mac was good, but that he didn't believe in taking a QB with that pick. He also passed on Lamar Jackson even though Jackson dropped to the Patriots after expecting to be drafted much higher and McDaniels advocating for Jackson. And Belichick when giving his analysis of the Maye pick draft night focused on Maye being a raw and inexperienced and didn't seem that high on him.



So all the evidence points to the likelihood of Belichick not selecting Maye in that draft if he was with the Patriots. I think he would have made the trade with the Vikings and drafted JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix.

 

[Borg140]

I think Kraft would've come full circle and reenacted the draft room with Parcells in 1996 and forcing him to take Maye. However, that would've already been understood as one of the conditions Bill returning in 2024.

It seemed like a ****ty move on Kraft for firing BB so quickly after giving him 20 years of competitive teams. But Bill was seriously losing it and derailing this team after Brady left. We talk about how bad his drafting was getting, but his poor cap management was flying under the radar. He was hoarding bad players on defense/special teams who were clogging up the cap along with the bad contracts they already had at WR/TE.

His main problem imo was that he became so insular. He refused to bring in new blood to the coaching staff and I believe he really thought he could just do it all, which led to the Patricia decision and other bad calls. He lost his fastball a few years before that imo, but his decision to move Patricia to OC was a career killer.

 

[Rob0729]

I think Kraft would've come full circle and reenacted the draft room with Parcells in 1996 and forcing him to take Maye. However, that would've already been understood as one of the conditions Bill returning in 2024.

It seemed like a ****ty move on Kraft for firing BB so quickly after giving him 20 years of competitive teams. But Bill was seriously losing it and derailing this team after Brady left. We talk about how bad his drafting was getting, but his poor cap management was flying under the radar. He was hoarding bad players on defense/special teams who were clogging up the cap along with the bad contracts they already had at WR/TE.

I have no problem with Kraft firing Belichick. Why? Because if the roles were reversed and Belichick was the owner and Kraft was the head coach with the same success as Belichick, Belichick wouldn't think twice about firing Kraft. If Brady didn't decide to leave and he had another year like 2019 in 2020, I wouldn't have been been shocked if Belichick cut him.

Belichick was rarely sentimental when it came to personnel decisions. He either traded away or let players walk like Seymour, Law, Vinatieri, and Vrabel. The only player I can remember him basically stick around even after his play on the field declined was Troy Brown. But that was in part because the receiving corp was awful and he could do other things like returns and play defense.

 

[DaBruinz]

His main problem imo was that he became so insular. He refused to bring in new blood to the coaching staff and I believe he really thought he could just do it all, which led to the Patricia decision and other bad calls. He lost his fastball a few years before that imo, but his decision to move Patricia to OC was a career killer.

Just because BB brought back Patricia and Judge doesn't mean he wasnt bringing in new blood. Belichick was always hiring young coaches to work from the ground up. That's how he felt coaches should move up in the organization.

The list of coaches that Belichick has helped to develop into excellent coaches/coordinators is pretty long even if most haven't had success as a HC.

Below is the list of outside coaches Belichick hired during his last 3 years:

In 2021, Belichick hired guys like Billy Yates (Asst. O-line), Bo Hardegree (Asst QB) and Evan Rothstein (Offensive Analytics)
In 2022, Belichick hired Ross Douglas (WR), V'Angelo Bentley (Def. Asst) , and Tyler Hughes (Off. Asst)
In 2023, Belichick hired Adrian Klemm (OL), Will Lawing (TE), and Keith Jones (Def. Asst) .

Of the 9, only Yates and Klemm has any "direct relation" to the team. And their relation was only that they'd played here. Both got their coaching chops wet at other stops before being hired by the Pats.

Just because he didn't hire an OC or DC from outside the organization doesn't mean he refused to bring in "new blood". He didn't believe that putting people from outside the organization into positions of authority (OC/DC) was the proper way to run an organization.

I agree that BB listening to Patricia tell him that he (Patricia) could implement the Shanahan Outside Zone scheme on the offense was a career killer. Patricia allowed his ego to get in the way of getting the job done. Patricia refused to use the assets available to him. Mainly Kendrick Bourne and Trent Brown. Both of whom had experience in that scheme. It's what led to the arguments between Patricia and Bourne and Bourne landing in the doghouse.

I think that things started falling apart when Brady decided to leave after the discussions with Belichick and Kraft. I believe that Kraft, despite all his claims that he thought of Brady like a son, I believe that Kraft told Brady that an ownership stake in the Patriots after his playing career was done was a non-starter. I believe that Jonathan went and hired Wolf and Groh when it decided that they would be the drivers in the draft process. I think it didn't help BB that nearly every time he relied on Josh McDaniels for player input during the top rounds of the draft, that the Player had issues. N'Keal Harry was only the latest of the offensive skill players that McDaniels recommended that was a failure.

 

[DaBruinz]

I have no problem with Kraft firing Belichick. Why? Because if the roles were reversed and Belichick was the owner and Kraft was the head coach with the same success as Belichick, Belichick wouldn't think twice about firing Kraft. If Brady didn't decide to leave and he had another year like 2019 in 2020, I wouldn't have been been shocked if Belichick cut him.

Belichick was rarely sentimental when it came to personnel decisions. He either traded away or let players walk like Seymour, Law, Vinatieri, and Vrabel. The only player I can remember him basically stick around even after his play on the field declined was Troy Brown. But that was in part because the receiving corp was awful and he could do other things like returns and play defense.

He did the same with Bruschi. And later with Deion Branch and Jonathan Jones.

 

[Rob0729]

He did the same with Bruschi. And later with Deion Branch and Jonathan Jones.

Bruschi retired in camp. I have always thought Belichick gave him the opportunity to retire rather than being cut. I know it is speculation, but a logic speculation. He wasn’t great his last year with the Pats, but he didn’t go two years of being a shell of himself like Troy did. Troy was more of DB at times than a WR his last few years.

And Branch sucked his last year with the Patriots, but was decent the two previous years. He only spent about 2 1/2 years with the Pats after they traded for him back from Seattle. And of course, Belichick traded him Seattle rather than pay him. I don’t see the same as Troy either.

 

[Wozzy]

The fact of the matter is the last two years of the Belichick era, the offense was trash. You can blame Mac Jones for part of it, but it doesn't explain the complete mess the offense was. The o-line couldn't block for the life of them. The receivers were constantly running routes where they all were in bunches allowing defenses to easily defend them. Hell the receivers were running into each other. And offense was still putrid when they replaced Jones with Zappe.

They almost won the Green Bay game Zappe entered when Mac got injured, then went 2-0 over Zappe's next two starts. Zappe's two starts were the two highest point totals by the Patriots in the entire 2022 season. They were better with Zappe.

Mac Jones was good under McDaniels and was good last year filling in for Brock Purdy. He wasn't even that bad when he filled in for Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville. He showed that in a good offense, he can be a good QB. He was never going to a top QB. But he could have been an average or even an above average QB in the right system.

He was set up to fail here. But he didn't handle it right. A mentally stronger QB with better talent could have handled the situation much better. Brady could have found a way to at least be decent, but he is Brady.

Mac was set up for success in 2021 and folded after 13 games, or what he played in a typical college season.

He looked terrible after the bye and into the playoffs. He sucked... turnover machine. Then he never looked good again.

He looked strong for a second in Jacksonville then faded, did the same as a starter for the 49ers.

He's a backup. Not bad, but for a first round pick... a bust.

But Brady wanted to leave here for some of the same reason that undid Jones. Brady didn't believe there was an effort to build a winning team around him and he was asked to elevate bad to average talent. He had a so-so 2019 season because of it.

How could Tom believe there wasn't an effort to build a winning team, coming off four Super Bowl appearances and three rings?

“I think what makes it such a challenge, it’s hard to win one Super Bowl,” Brady said. “There’s salary caps. You just can’t go buy a football team." - Tom Brady

Tom wanted to leave because he understood the salary cap, and because his wife was nagging him to move to Florida.

I think the disaster of the Mac Jones era falls on a number of people's shoulders and that includes both Jones and Belichick.

Collaboration.

In hindsight, I am glad that the Jones era was a failure. Without that failure, we wouldn't see Drake Maye in a Patriots' uniform and may not have Mike Vrabel as a head coach. But the failure is a lot people's fault. Blaming Mac Jones or Belichick solely is rewriting history.

Don't overlook the Mayo era, without that disaster we wouldn't have gotten Vrabel.

Drake Maye was on that 4 win team in 2024... it took Vrabel to make it right.

It takes coaches and players... team.

 

[Wozzy]

That may be very well true. Even the reports that Belichick would have rather not take Mac and take Davis Mills in the second round wasn't because he didn't think Mac was good, but that he didn't believe in taking a QB with that pick.

No, it's because he didn't have a high first round grade on Mac. The position wasn't the reason. If you have a similar grade on Davis Mills as Mac, a second round prospect at best, you don't use the first round pick. They assign all of these draft prospects a grade, you don't reach for need.

He also passed on Lamar Jackson even though Jackson dropped to the Patriots after expecting to be drafted much higher and McDaniels advocating for Jackson.

Lamar Jackson has never won in the playoffs on one of the best rosters in the NFL. BB was correct to pass on Lamar.

Also you can't cry about Brady leaving over surrounding talent in one breath, then say Bill should have used a first on Lamar. Either you're all in on winning rings, or you're eyeing the future.

So all the evidence points to the likelihood of Belichick not selecting Maye in that draft if he was with the Patriots. I think he would have made the trade with the Vikings and drafted JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix.

There is no evidence. His job for ESPN was to be a critical eye and truly scout these guys. He did that. He also called Drake a "freak athlete." Nobody knows what he would have done.

 

[captain stone]

The dysfunction was leaking during the late Brady years, but they couldn't hide it after he left. Bourne called out and embarrassed Patricia which led to him mysteriously being erased from the offense. BB tired his hardest to get fired starting in the 2022 offseason and got his wish after 2023.

Brady (& others I'm sure) was finished with Bill after SB52... Bill made some nice trades for vets (though the draft was trash as usual) and righted the ship one last time the year after; but yet another bad draft & weird personnel moves led to a disgraceful One & Done in Brady's farewell season... And after he left as you said it was down-hill for Bill & Co. from there...

Jones also confirmed some wild Aaron Hernandez stories he heard from people in the building including Bill O'Brien such as:

He was found working out in the weight room naked.
He would jerk off during team meetings.
He wrote on a white board 100 times "throw Hernandez the ball".

Why would he be allowed to do that?!?

 

[captain stone]

I don't blame Bill at all for this one.

 

[captain stone]

Josh McDaniels was a defensive coach for years before he was the quarterbacks coach. That worked out great. Huge success.

For two years, as a defensive assistant. He wasn't a position coach, or even an assistant position coach. He was basically a Slappy for the defense.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

For two years, as a defensive assistant. He wasn't a position coach, or even an assistant position coach. He was basically a Slappy for the defense.

And three years later McDaniels under BB was one of the top OCs in the NFL. How can a guy who is a defensive slappy turn into a top offensive coach in such a short time period when coaches can't switch from defense to offense, or vice versa?

Is it the biggest turnaround in NFL coaching history?

 

[Borg140]

Just because BB brought back Patricia and Judge doesn't mean he wasnt bringing in new blood. Belichick was always hiring young coaches to work from the ground up. That's how he felt coaches should move up in the organization.

The list of coaches that Belichick has helped to develop into excellent coaches/coordinators is pretty long even if most haven't had success as a HC.

Below is the list of outside coaches Belichick hired during his last 3 years:

In 2021, Belichick hired guys like Billy Yates (Asst. O-line), Bo Hardegree (Asst QB) and Evan Rothstein (Offensive Analytics)
In 2022, Belichick hired Ross Douglas (WR), V'Angelo Bentley (Def. Asst) , and Tyler Hughes (Off. Asst)
In 2023, Belichick hired Adrian Klemm (OL), Will Lawing (TE), and Keith Jones (Def. Asst) .

Of the 9, only Yates and Klemm has any "direct relation" to the team. And their relation was only that they'd played here. Both got their coaching chops wet at other stops before being hired by the Pats.

Just because he didn't hire an OC or DC from outside the organization doesn't mean he refused to bring in "new blood". He didn't believe that putting people from outside the organization into positions of authority (OC/DC) was the proper way to run an organization.

I agree that BB listening to Patricia tell him that he (Patricia) could implement the Shanahan Outside Zone scheme on the offense was a career killer. Patricia allowed his ego to get in the way of getting the job done. Patricia refused to use the assets available to him. Mainly Kendrick Bourne and Trent Brown. Both of whom had experience in that scheme. It's what led to the arguments between Patricia and Bourne and Bourne landing in the doghouse.

I think that things started falling apart when Brady decided to leave after the discussions with Belichick and Kraft. I believe that Kraft, despite all his claims that he thought of Brady like a son, I believe that Kraft told Brady that an ownership stake in the Patriots after his playing career was done was a non-starter. I believe that Jonathan went and hired Wolf and Groh when it decided that they would be the drivers in the draft process. I think it didn't help BB that nearly every time he relied on Josh McDaniels for player input during the top rounds of the draft, that the Player had issues. N'Keal Harry was only the latest of the offensive skill players that McDaniels recommended that was a failure.

Not really arguing against this. However, my understanding of the Harry pick was that the scouts collectively advised Belichick not to take Harry, and of course Belichick did it anyway. That eventually led to Kraft insisting on a more collaborative process. I don’t remember McDaniels recommending him, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if that’s true.

Also, while BB may have brought in “new blood” at low level positions, he wasn’t bringing anyone new into his inner circle. That’s to what I was referring. So instead of peeps challenging his ideas as he allowed in the past, it was all nodding heads at the end.

 

[BigPlayWC]

And three years later McDaniels under BB was one of the top OCs in the NFL. How can a guy who is a defensive slappy turn into a top offensive coach in such a short time period when coaches can't switch from defense to offense, or vice versa?

Is it the biggest turnaround in NFL coaching history?

McDaniels was a QB in high school but played WR in college because Nick Caserio won the starting job. He was an assistant for DBs for one season, before that a personnel assistant for the Pats and senior graduate assistant for Saban at MSU. I don't think defense was ever his focus or specialty.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

True irony is that what got Shula fired ultimately got Belichick fired. Even down to hiring his kids to coach. Kids can be good coaches, but it does speak to an insular thought process.

 

[rkarp1]

I have no problem with Kraft firing Belichick. Why? Because if the roles were reversed and Belichick was the owner and Kraft was the head coach with the same success as Belichick, Belichick wouldn't think twice about firing Kraft. If Brady didn't decide to leave and he had another year like 2019 in 2020, I wouldn't have been been shocked if Belichick cut him.

Belichick was rarely sentimental when it came to personnel decisions. He either traded away or let players walk like Seymour, Law, Vinatieri, and Vrabel. The only player I can remember him basically stick around even after his play on the field declined was Troy Brown. But that was in part because the receiving corp was awful and he could do other things like returns and play defense.

in 2019 the first half of the season, the team was 8-1. the offense in those games with Brady at QB scored 33, 43, 30, 33, 35, 33, 27 in 7 of those games. Brady in that stretch had game ratings of 125, 125, 104, 106, 89
not sure 2019 was as bad as you present it

 

[Rob0729]

No, it's because he didn't have a high first round grade on Mac. The position wasn't the reason. If you have a similar grade on Davis Mills as Mac, a second round prospect at best, you don't use the first round pick. They assign all of these draft prospects a grade, you don't reach for need.

Lamar Jackson has never won in the playoffs on one of the best rosters in the NFL. BB was correct to pass on Lamar.

Also you can't cry about Brady leaving over surrounding talent in one breath, then say Bill should have used a first on Lamar. Either you're all in on winning rings, or you're eyeing the future.

There is no evidence. His job for ESPN was to be a critical eye and truly scout these guys. He did that. He also called Drake a "freak athlete." Nobody knows what he would have done.

It was never reported that he didn't have a high first round grade for Mac. Stop making up stuff. It was reported he would rather taken a QB in the second round and that he thought Mac Jones was a good prospect. There was never a report that he wanted to wait for the second round because he didn't view Jones as a high first round prospect (he was drafted in the middle of the first round BTW).

Lamar Jackson with McDaniels and Belichick and the Patriots might have won a Super Bowl or two. Different team and situation situations could result in different results.

Brady was 40 years old when Lamar Jackson was drafted. The Pats needed to draft a successor. Aaron Rodgers sat for years behind Favre and then Jordan Love sat for years behind Rodgers. Both were late first round picks. Jackson would have sat for a few years behind Brady.

It is clear that Belichick wasn't that high on the Pats drafting him third overall in the clip I posted. You can stick your head in the sand and ignore it.

 

[Rob0729]

They almost won the Green Bay game Zappe entered when Mac got injured, then went 2-0 over Zappe's next two starts. Zappe's two starts were the two highest point totals by the Patriots in the entire 2022 season. They were better with Zappe.

Mac was set up for success in 2021 and folded after 13 games, or what he played in a typical college season.

He looked terrible after the bye and into the playoffs. He sucked... turnover machine. Then he never looked good again.

He looked strong for a second in Jacksonville then faded, did the same as a starter for the 49ers.

He's a backup. Not bad, but for a first round pick... a bust.

How could Tom believe there wasn't an effort to build a winning team, coming off four Super Bowl appearances and three rings?

“I think what makes it such a challenge, it’s hard to win one Super Bowl,” Brady said. “There’s salary caps. You just can’t go buy a football team." - Tom Brady

Tom wanted to leave because he understood the salary cap, and because his wife was nagging him to move to Florida.

Collaboration.

Don't overlook the Mayo era, without that disaster we wouldn't have gotten Vrabel.

Drake Maye was on that 4 win team in 2024... it took Vrabel to make it right.

It takes coaches and players... team.

Zappe was good for like a game and half until the Bears showed how to tear Zappe apart and he was awful after that for the rest of the time he was with the Patriots. It took a game and a half for the league to figure him out.

And people have a revisionist history of the Mac's rookie year. He wasn't terrible after the bye. He was inconsistent. Sometimes he was great others he was awful. The real reason the Patriots fell apart down the stretch that year was because the defense fell apart (which was a signature of Patriots defenses the last few years of Belichick era) which forced Mac to play outside of his game and he wasn't ready for it.

It well known Brady was upset in 2019 that Belichick gave him nothing to work with. He never hid it. He was not happy and it affected his play. It doesn't matter how he felt before that. At the point in 2019, the fact that he was concerned about the talent of the team played a factor in him leaving.

I didn't overlook the Mayo era. Without the collapse of the final season of Belichick, the Mayo era would have likely started this season after Belichick broke the record and Vrabel would have gone elsewhere.

Maye was a rookie with no o-line or receivers and no coaching. I agree that coaching matters, but I also feel that Belichick wasn't the same coach he was during the dynasty years.

 

[Rob0729]

in 2019 the first half of the season, the team was 8-1. the offense in those games with Brady at QB scored 33, 43, 30, 33, 35, 33, 27 in 7 of those games. Brady in that stretch had game ratings of 125, 125, 104, 106, 89
not sure 2019 was as bad as you present it

And if you remember Brady was saying during that 8-1 stretch that the offense wasn't as good as people thought it was and he had real concerns about how good they were.

The reason why the offense was performing was because of the defense. The Patriots during the first eight games of the season that year gave up 7.6 points per game. And on top of that, the defense and special teams were scoring points. In the 43-0 game against the Dolphins, the defense scored 14 point. In the 16-10 game against the Bills, Slater returned a blocked punt for a TD. In the 35-14 game vs. the Giants, the Pats had a blocked kicked for a TD and a fumble recovery for a TD by Van Noy. In the 33-0 game vs. the Jets there was a safety. In the 27-13 game vs. the Browns, Hightower had a fumble recovery for a TD.

I remember 2019 very well. Brady knew even when they were winning that the talent wasn't there.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

2019 was the season where we lost to the Titans in the playoffs right? Brady’s final year. There’s just that feeling that you aren’t good enough. That year was that.