will the Pats spend?

[rkarp1]

I have long complained that the knocks on RK or JK have been misplaced, when it comes to contracts.
I simply do not see them involved in day to day deals, other than for top of roster/top of market out lays. even that, they are kept in the loop rather than driving the bus.
before Wolf/Vrabel/Cowden, Bill had 100% total control of every deal.
"the Krafts are cheap" is commonly posted here.
is it the Krafts? or was it Bill?

before Bill arrived;

Drew Bledsoe (QB): Signed a massive seven-year, $42 million contract in 1995 that made him the highest-paid player in the NFL at the time.

Ty Law (CB): Signed a seven-year, $51 million extension in 1999. The deal featured a $14 million signing bonus, briefly making him the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history

Willie McGinest (DE/LB): Signed a five-year, $25 million extension in 1997.

Ted Johnson (LB): Signed a five-year, $25 million extension in August 1998. The deal was highly competitive with the league's top-paid linebackers

Ben Coates (TE): Signed a six-year, $18 million extension in 1996.

Terry Glenn (WR): Signed a six-year, $33.6 million contract extension in 1999. The deal included an $11.5 million signing bonus

after Bill arrived;
Brady, Solder, Welkie, Mal Butler, Samuel, AdamV, Vince, Mankie..all left over money

Bill made uber smart roster decisions. Bill made shrewd free agency decisions. Bill had the golden touch for almost 2 decades. Bill also had Brady to bail him out.
Post Brady, everything Bill touched, failed.
but "Kraft is cheap"? the numbers do not back that up.
"Bill was smart". "Bill made those financial decisions" should be the rhetoric.

 

[TommyD4207]

I have long complained that the knocks on RK or JK have been misplaced, when it comes to contracts.
I simply do not see them involved in day to day deals, other than for top of roster/top of market out lays. even that, they are kept in the loop rather than driving the bus.
before Wolf/Vrabel/Cowden, Bill had 100% total control of every deal.
"the Krafts are cheap" is commonly posted here.
is it the Krafts? or was it Bill?

before Bill arrived;

Drew Bledsoe (QB): Signed a massive seven-year, $42 million contract in 1995 that made him the highest-paid player in the NFL at the time.

Ty Law (CB): Signed a seven-year, $51 million extension in 1999. The deal featured a $14 million signing bonus, briefly making him the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history

Willie McGinest (DE/LB): Signed a five-year, $25 million extension in 1997.

Ted Johnson (LB): Signed a five-year, $25 million extension in August 1998. The deal was highly competitive with the league's top-paid linebackers

Ben Coates (TE): Signed a six-year, $18 million extension in 1996.

Terry Glenn (WR): Signed a six-year, $33.6 million contract extension in 1999. The deal included an $11.5 million signing bonus

after Bill arrived;
Brady, Solder, Welkie, Mal Butler, Samuel, AdamV, Vince, Mankie..all left over money

Bill made uber smart roster decisions. Bill made shrewd free agency decisions. Bill had the golden touch for almost 2 decades. Bill also had Brady to bail him out.
Post Brady, everything Bill touched, failed.
but "Kraft is cheap"? the numbers do not back that up.
"Bill was smart". "Bill made those financial decisions" should be the rhetoric.

Those are the flash numbers.
The details in every contract, is deferred money, performance-laden nonsense, mind you, every contract that has any real money attached to it in the press release.

It's good business, sure, but it's a mentality and a directive sent down from the top. Nickel and dime. Balogna sandwiches. Spray paint the used plane you got with the team colors, looks great on TV, but anyone over 6' doesn't have leg room.

When Bob Kraft was the plucky underdog, saving his pennies to buy the parking lot, and then the stadium, and eventually the team, this mentality was rightfully applauded and lauded.

The team is now worth 9 billion dollars, at least. Bob Kraft has made his initial investment back 400x over.

Team was bottom five in real cash spending in the entire league, over the last 5 years, the last 10 years, the last 20 years. This is a top-5 media market in the country, and is consistently in the top-3 in team valuation in the entire league. This has both been with and without Bill Belichick as coach and de-facto GM. They went on a 'sign your own players' bender ahead of the 2024 season...so they could reach the salary *floor*.

Remember 'How can we possibly afford Steph Diggs at 22 million?' It wasn't. It was one year for 9, and they kicked him to the curb. Over, and over, and over again,

Now, maybe he got sick of losing, and the tide has turned on the top end with free agents, Milton Williams is making real money, cash money, for example. But there will need to be a lot more Milton Williams examples, and a lot fewer Steph Diggs examples, for me to believe that, when there have been far more of the latter over the last 35 years, than the former.

For the record, the Red Sox do the same thing. So Kraft is not unique.

 

[Family]

Remember 'How can we possibly afford Steph Diggs at 22 million?' It wasn't. It was one year for 9, and they kicked him to the curb. Over, and over, and over again,

Wrong. Diggs made 19+ in cash.

Team was bottom five in real cash spending in the entire league, over the last 5 years

Wrong.

 

[rkarp1]

just my opinion
almost every statement you made in your post is wrong

 

[BTTA]

The entire Pats' financial future, and ability to spend on players, rests on getting their money back from the 18,000 taxpayers of Foxborough.

 

[rkarp1]

The entire Pats' financial future, and ability to spend on players, rests on getting their money back from the 18,000 taxpayers of Foxborough.

please explain because it does not make any sense

 

[scott99]

I think the Pats will figure out a way to sign Gonzalez & Maye to fair contracts. I don’t think they’ll mess around, it’ll get done.

 

[Wozzy]

The Pats were near last in spending under Bill Parcells and Pete Carroll… it was never a Belichick thing. But spending to the cap is smart, so nobody but the clueless faulted them for that.

Bob got the reputation for “cheap” because of facilities, amenities and overall team conditions. It wasn’t created or even fostered by fans… it was started by players, former players and even a former head coach (Pete) who called him cheap.

When the NFLPA conducts a poll of franchises that are cheap and you rank near dead last repeatedly… maybe it’s time to look inward.

 

[Rob0729]

Bob Kraft has claimed that he has never said no to spending money. I don't how many times people like Felger or Bedard has said that Kraft would never spend his money on X in recent years and then he does.

I think the financial aspect of the NFL is changing. The cap is growing so fast. It will be impossible to know how the Pats will spend over the next few years especially if Jonathan takes over.

 

[rkarp1]

Those are the flash numbers.
The details in every contract, is deferred money, performance-laden nonsense, mind you, every contract that has any real money attached to it in the press release.

It's good business, sure, but it's a mentality and a directive sent down from the top. Nickel and dime. Balogna sandwiches. Spray paint the used plane you got with the team colors, looks great on TV, but anyone over 6' doesn't have leg room.

When Bob Kraft was the plucky underdog, saving his pennies to buy the parking lot, and then the stadium, and eventually the team, this mentality was rightfully applauded and lauded.

The team is now worth 9 billion dollars, at least. Bob Kraft has made his initial investment back 400x over.

Team was bottom five in real cash spending in the entire league, over the last 5 years, the last 10 years, the last 20 years. This is a top-5 media market in the country, and is consistently in the top-3 in team valuation in the entire league. This has both been with and without Bill Belichick as coach and de-facto GM. They went on a 'sign your own players' bender ahead of the 2024 season...so they could reach the salary *floor*.

Remember 'How can we possibly afford Steph Diggs at 22 million?' It wasn't. It was one year for 9, and they kicked him to the curb. Over, and over, and over again,

Now, maybe he got sick of losing, and the tide has turned on the top end with free agents, Milton Williams is making real money, cash money, for example. But there will need to be a lot more Milton Williams examples, and a lot fewer Steph Diggs examples, for me to believe that, when there have been far more of the latter over the last 35 years, than the former.

For the record, the Red Sox do the same thing. So Kraft is not unique.

valuation has zero to do with actual cash flow
media market rank also means nothing, because teams revenue share
RK has a budget, and his management team spends that budget as they see fit
I bet we could count on 1 hand how many times RK was involved in negotiations with players over the years.
Brady. Mankins. Vince. AdamV.

 

[rkarp1]

The Pats were near last in spending under Bill Parcells and Pete Carroll… it was never a Belichick thing. But spending to the cap is smart, so nobody but the clueless faulted them for that.

Bob got the reputation for “cheap” because of facilities, amenities and overall team conditions. It wasn’t created or even fostered by fans… it was started by players, former players and even a former head coach (Pete) who called him cheap.

When the NFLPA conducts a poll of franchises that are cheap and you rank near dead last repeatedly… maybe it’s time to look inward.

not saying AI is always right, but aligns with what I have said, repeatedly;

Robert Kraft significantly altered his ownership approach after firing Pete Carroll in 2000, shifting from a hands-on, restrictive management style to giving his head coach near-total operational autonomy. [1, 2]
According to team president Jonathan Kraft, the franchise went through a steep "learning curve" during the Bill Parcells and Pete Carroll eras. The changes Kraft made after dismissing Carroll reshaped the Patriots into a historic dynasty. [1, 2, 3]

1. Surrendering Football Autonomy
When Kraft first bought the Patriots in 1994, he operated like many new owners, micromanaging personnel and utilizing a traditional general manager to control roster choices. This famously alienated Bill Parcells and restricted Carroll. [1, 2]
After firing Carroll, Kraft admitted he needed to step back. When he hired Bill Belichick in 2000, Kraft granted him full control over both coaching and personnel. This complete consolidation of power was a direct reaction to the structural friction that plagued Carroll’s tenure. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

2. Outsourcing the "Value" and Spending Philosophy
While the "bologna sandwich" era under Carroll suggested rigid, top-down frugality from ownership, Kraft shifted his financial strategy to align with Belichick's philosophy of "value football". [1, 2]

• The Shift: Kraft stopped dictating micro-budgets (like team meals) and instead gave Belichick a blank check to spend cash and cap space however he saw fit. [1, 2]
• The Result: Belichick chose to run a highly restrictive, thrifty ship regarding player contracts to maximize long-term roster sustainability. Though the Patriots often ranked near the bottom of the league in raw cash spending, Kraft protected himself from "cheap" labels by pointing out that spending limits were entirely determined by his coach, not ownership. [1, 2, 3, 4]

3. Adapting to the Modern Era (Post-Belichick)
Following Belichick's departure, Kraft's philosophy has shifted once again. Acknowledging that modern roster building requires strict checks and balances, Kraft moved away from the "all-powerful head coach" model he adopted after Carroll. The front office has returned to a more collaborative structure, dividing the coaching and general manager roles to adapt to the modern NFL. [1, 2, 3]
If you would like, I can provide more details on how NFL player report cards recently challenged Kraft's spending reputation, or explore the specific front office hires made to replace the Belichick model.

 

[Wozzy]

not saying AI is always right, but aligns with what I have said, repeatedly;

Robert Kraft significantly altered his ownership approach after firing Pete Carroll in 2000, shifting from a hands-on, restrictive management style to giving his head coach near-total operational autonomy. [1, 2]
According to team president Jonathan Kraft, the franchise went through a steep "learning curve" during the Bill Parcells and Pete Carroll eras. The changes Kraft made after dismissing Carroll reshaped the Patriots into a historic dynasty. [1, 2, 3]

1. Surrendering Football Autonomy
When Kraft first bought the Patriots in 1994, he operated like many new owners, micromanaging personnel and utilizing a traditional general manager to control roster choices. This famously alienated Bill Parcells and restricted Carroll. [1, 2]
After firing Carroll, Kraft admitted he needed to step back. When he hired Bill Belichick in 2000, Kraft granted him full control over both coaching and personnel. This complete consolidation of power was a direct reaction to the structural friction that plagued Carroll’s tenure. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

2. Outsourcing the "Value" and Spending Philosophy
While the "bologna sandwich" era under Carroll suggested rigid, top-down frugality from ownership, Kraft shifted his financial strategy to align with Belichick's philosophy of "value football". [1, 2]

• The Shift: Kraft stopped dictating micro-budgets (like team meals) and instead gave Belichick a blank check to spend cash and cap space however he saw fit. [1, 2]
• The Result: Belichick chose to run a highly restrictive, thrifty ship regarding player contracts to maximize long-term roster sustainability. Though the Patriots often ranked near the bottom of the league in raw cash spending, Kraft protected himself from "cheap" labels by pointing out that spending limits were entirely determined by his coach, not ownership. [1, 2, 3, 4]

3. Adapting to the Modern Era (Post-Belichick)
Following Belichick's departure, Kraft's philosophy has shifted once again. Acknowledging that modern roster building requires strict checks and balances, Kraft moved away from the "all-powerful head coach" model he adopted after Carroll. The front office has returned to a more collaborative structure, dividing the coaching and general manager roles to adapt to the modern NFL. [1, 2, 3]
If you would like, I can provide more details on how NFL player report cards recently challenged Kraft's spending reputation, or explore the specific front office hires made to replace the Belichick model.

AI is like having a teenage assistant who does a quick internet search and doesn’t verify anything. Stop posting AI slop, AI told us Nazis were black guys and asian women because it wanted to be inclusive.

Cash spending with the two coaches prior to Belichick was near the bottom of the league. That did not change with Belichick, it didn’t start with him.

More importantly it had nothing to do with spending on player payroll. The NFLPA poll showed the franchise was ranked near dead last in everything else. That’s why Pete Carroll called them cheap… bologna sandwiches.

I know you’re on Kraft Enterprises payroll, but stop trying to argue againt something players voted on or former employees said… or worse, blaming it on fans.

Fans didn’t create this image problem.

 

[rkarp1]

AI is like having a teenage assistant who does a quick internet search and doesn’t verify anything. Stop posting AI slop, AI told us Nazis were black guys and asian women because it wanted to be inclusive.

Cash spending with the two coaches prior to Belichick was near the bottom of the league. That did not change with Belichick, it didn’t start with him.

More importantly it had nothing to do with spending on player payroll. The NFLPA poll showed the franchise was ranked near dead last in everything else. That’s why Pete Carroll called them cheap… bologna sandwiches.

I know you’re on Kraft Enterprises payroll, but stop trying to argue againt something players voted on or former employees said… or worse, blaming it fans.

Fans didn’t create this image problem.

so when AI shows you to be wrong, it is slop
when you are proven right, it is a great tool
got it

I have been telling you exactly the same for a very long time
you choosing to close your eyes to it, is not surprising

it multiple posts AI searched, definitively say Kraft changed his ways after firing Carroll, lending credence to what Carroll said.
But the past almost 30 years, mostly with Bill, was all on Bill. The past 3 years, Kraft pivoted again
it will be interesting to see this years report card
I bet it proves you wrong, again

 

[Wozzy]

so when AI shows you to be wrong, it is slop
when you are proven right, it is a great tool
got it

I have been telling you exactly the same for a very long time
you choosing to close your eyes to it, is not surprising

it multiple posts AI searched, definitively say Kraft changed his ways after firing Carroll, lending credence to what Carroll said.
But the past almost 30 years, mostly with Bill, was all on Bill. The past 3 years, Kraft pivoted again
it will be interesting to see this years report card
I bet it proves you wrong, again

Spending on payroll stayed the same. Nothing changed really, other than fewer players got paid under Carroll and the team was top heavy and talent light.

Cash spending numbers are not opinion… they’re facts.

NFLPA polls are voted on by the players, Carroll’s opinion is his own… it has nothing to do with me or other fans.

By the way I find your take to be hilarious considering the last decade of the dynasty you constantly called BB cheap for not overpaying for garbage and I constantly argued with you that spending to the cap and not overspending was smart.

You argued BB should be fired entering the 2014 season… that aged well.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

WTF do I care how the sandwiches are in Foxboro? If they spend to the cap and win championships, sure, spend more on bett4r sandwiches or whatever, but it's hardly worth a post.

Now if one of you guys believes the Pats don't spend to the cqp, that might be meaningful and therefore not tedius

 

[Rob0729]

I really don't want to rehash the Belichick/Kraft arguments over and over again, but I will say that I have a hard time believing that if Belichick wasn't all in with Kraft's cap and personnel spending that he would have stayed with the Patriots all these years or not used his massive leverage to force Kraft to spend more. In fact, I doubt he would have stayed if he didn't have a lot of input on the player budget.

Belichick by the end of his second Super Bowl win could have gotten 20 plus teams to give him whatever he asked for in terms of salary, budget, and control. By the end of his first dynasty, almost every team would. Why would he stay with the Patriots if Kraft was being cheap on player contracts and not giving him everything he needed to win?

 

[BTTA]

please explain because it does not make any sense

I'm making fun of the Patriots managing to portray themselves as victims of a small town with an employed adult population about the same size as their staff.

 

[Family]

The Pats were near last in spending under Bill Parcells and Pete Carroll… it was never a Belichick thing. But spending to the cap is smart, so nobody but the clueless faulted them for that.

Bob got the reputation for “cheap” because of facilities, amenities and overall team conditions. It wasn’t created or even fostered by fans… it was started by players, former players and even a former head coach (Pete) who called him cheap.

When the NFLPA conducts a poll of franchises that are cheap and you rank near dead last repeatedly… maybe it’s time to look inward.

The team had to have paid much more to keep Belichick than any other team paid for a HC for two decades. Never any sign of dispute. I'm sure Bill wanted to be paid the most.

They were the first team to buy a team plane. Now they get roasted because it's the oldest.

They stepped up to keep Josh McDaniels at a critical point.

The great ones are often more careful with everything. Auerbach was considered cheap too as a GM. Kraft is a businessman. He's put the money where it's most effective. The results have been phenomenal. The team had zero championships before Kraft. And under his ownership now has them back quickly again.

But you whine over player association polls, amenities, and things fired coaches say. This is a non issue to success, and the "he's cheap" take isn't even true anyway anymore than the crying from former BB players. And I'll take titles and Super Bowl appearances.

 

[Clonamery]

WTF do I care how the sandwiches are in Foxboro? If they spend to the cap and win championships, sure, spend more on bett4r sandwiches or whatever, but it's hardly worth a post.

Now if one of you guys believes the Pats don't spend to the cqp, that might be meaningful and therefore not tedius

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. I would never say that because that would be hypocritical of me. Also, you.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

WTF do I care how the sandwiches are in Foxboro? If they spend to the cap and win championships, sure, spend more on bett4r sandwiches or whatever, but it's hardly worth a post.

Now if one of you guys believes the Pats don't spend to the cqp, that might be meaningful and therefore not tedius

I don't think it is as simple as spending to the cap. The contracts can be structured to spread out over years to spread the cap hit. That allows more players to be signed in one cap year, which requires more cash, but spending to the cap is the same. There are other ways to finagle the cap as well. These cap massaging techniques can accelerate and increase upfront cash while always spending to the cap.

I am not sure the Pats are in the right position to accelerate the cash spend at this time, but when it is appropriate, will the Kraft's spend the extra dollars? The Krafts being cheap or not is relevant to that question.