Who coached the more impressive Pats turnaround: Belichick or Vrabel?

[TheRainMaker]

This is actually a good debate because the 2000 team was arguably the "least talented" in the NFL. Not many people disagreed. The core on the team looked like they lost a step during the 1999 and 2000 seasons. Many of them were cut by BB or retired. The pick of Seymour was the catalyst of the defense that season and they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl without him. The most impressive Super Bowl defeats in the last 25 years were the 2001 Rams and unfortunately when the Giants beat the 2007 Pats.

2020-2024 teams were awful. They were fool's gold in 2021. Vrabel recruited a lot of coaches and players just like BB did in 2000-2001 to get their team to the Super Bowl. He inherited the 3rd overall draft pick at QB and had the #3 overall pick in the following draft. Vrabel taking his team to the Super Bowl in his first season is very impressive and joins a rare group. Although their offenses were bad, the Pats faced 3 straight teams with very good defenses. Seattle won't be a slouch on either side of the ball.

With that said, BB still gets the edge because he took a 6th round QB who was an afterthought and beat the Raiders and Rams who were the final boss of the late 90's-early 2000's.

Patriots' Mike Vrabel joins rare first-year Super Bowl club

Mike Vrabel is the eighth coach in NFL history to reach a Super Bowl in his first season after defeating the Broncos.

www.espn.com

 

[upstater1]

The NFL is not as star studded as it was in 2001. The level of play has dropped off a lot.

So, while Belichick's turnaround had better players (despite the fact that the GMs of the entire NFL labeled it the most talentless roster in football prior to the season) the turnaround was done in a much tougher atmosphere.

This is all to say that Vrabel's turnaround is more impressive because the roster doesn't have the same high end talent.

Seymour, Law, McGinest, Phifer, Brady, these guys provided a base. Milt Williams and Gonzo are really the standouts here.

Maybe you could argue that Vrabel has a much stronger middle class than the '01 team did with guys like Spillane and Durden. I would also take THIS offensive line over the '01 line any day of the week, but as for the force multipliers of Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Seymour and Brady, that team had a little more talent.

 

[pazrul72]

I wouldn't argue hard either way, both are extremely impressive and deserving of a top spot on the greatest coaching jobs ever. Personally I rank BB slightly higher because, especially in this day and age, having a top 3 pick at QB is kinda a cheat code. Yes Brady eventually became Tom mother f'in Brady GOAT but that took time and at first he was just the plucky underdog that just won. Nobody was talking MVPs or "this guy can make EVERY throw".

Pro arguments for Vrable is he got his diva WR (diggs) to buy in 1,000% unlike BBs (Glenn) and 14-3 is better then 11-5 but I think this really comes down to the post season and while this Seahawks team is good and a worthy opponent they are no height of their powers greatest show on turf. Hard to compare one game and make a case off of that but I would argue that Superbowl was THE greatest coaching job in NFL history. "Can you believe we won with this team?" There was no clearly best team in the NFL this year just a group of 5 that were a pretty close to each other. Unlike that year those Rams were blowing people out left and right and I think the 14 point dogs might have even been a little low to the casual fan. Superbowls shouldn't be the be all end all of every argument but they do carry more weight at least with me. Getting to one is amazing, winning one against an all time team is better.

 

[Simpelton]

The difference in the talent level is significant. The team BB took over talent wise was pretty good. I remember daring to post early on that BB was winning with bobby griers draft picks. Vrable took over a team pretty much devoid of talent.

I wouldn't say THAT necessarily. Our talent underperformed under Mayo, and Vrabel got it organized better.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I don't know the answer to the OP. I just receive the joy and happiness that this team has provided.

 

[Patsman]

Solid poll, will probably get a lot of recency bias. Much of that due to being tainted with the 20 year dynasty craving to have it back. Back in 2001, Pats fans had nothing to miss.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Solid poll, will probably get a lot of recency bias. Much of that due to being tainted with the 20 year dynasty craving to have it back. Back in 2001, Pats fans had nothing to miss.

We had 2 Super Bowl losses. It seemed so far fetched to ever win.

 

[reflexblue]

I wouldn't say THAT necessarily. Our talent underperformed under Mayo, and Vrabel got it organized better.

BB drafts stunk the last three years he was here, the cupboard was bare

 

[scott99]

This is a really tough question. Though Belichick inherited some good talent, those guys BECAME great under Belichick. Though guys like Law, Milloy, Bledsoe, Bruschi, Faulk, McGinnest, Troy Brown, Terry Glenn, Tebucky Jones and Otis Smith all had various levels of success in the NFL, and most of those guys went to the SB with Parcells, they became better under Belichick. They weren’t the players they became until after Belichick came around. Of course add in Brady, who was considered clutch after winning the 1st SB in 2001.

Vrabel didn’t have the talent Belichick had, but If I had to compare position groups, Vrabel has better WR’s and TEs. I would give the 2001 & 2025 Olines a tie, the QBs did get sacked 46 times, and Maye got sacked 47 times, QB, Maye has an edge as far as what he accomplished in 2025 vs what Brady did stats wise in 2001. Hopefully Maye becomes a great QB like Brady did.

The RBs, I think it’s pretty even production wise.

Then we get to the defense. Draft and free agency really pushed the 2001 team forward. Drafting Seymour in the 1st round, and then adding guys like Vrabel, Terrell Buckley, Anthony Pleasant, Roman Phifer & Bryan Cox, really elevated the defense. Stats wise, the defense really didn’t destroy the league, but talent wise, I think it’s a more talented group of defenders on the 2001 defense.

So after a long rant, bottom line, I think Vrabel inherited a better offense, and Belichick a better defense. It’s tough to say who did a better job, but to go from 13 losses to 14 wins, that’s insane. If Vrabel pulls off the upset, I’d have to go with Vrabel.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well BB inherited a team that had gone .500 in their last two seasons.

Vrabel inherited a team that had gone 4-13 in the last two seasons.

I'm gonna go with Vrabel with an honorable mention to Bill Parcells for taking what had been a 1-15 and 2-14 team to the playoffs in 2 yrs.

 

[vicspats]

Win it first.

But for reference in 2000 the team talent was not good, the economics stunk with a bunch of large contracts at the top and not much for the rest. The owner and management also were committed to a big strong armed QB who wasn’t very efficient. The 2001 turnaround was a miracle, and no… not just because of Tom Brady who did enough. The roster was a duct taped together hodge podge of value vets nobody else in the league wanted. A bunch of old guys, blue collar guys… that was impressive.

The 2025 team had the third most money and cap space available and their franchise QB. What they did in the offseason was a masterclass in team building… the opposite of what we saw the season prior.

Both were impressive but the 2001 team was a miracle. The 2025 team was only “unlikely” to the negative nancy’s who don’t recognize talent or when a front office is doing a great job of it. Top ten offense, top five defense when healthy, superior special teams… this team was built really well… but they had all the resources in the world.

Absolutely spot on. I think one thing people also forget is the first one is the hardest for an organization. Just ask any of the other 12 teams who have never one it, or haven’t won in 30 years .. We are seasoned veterans. Not saying one season predicates the next one , but winning is 100% contagious. William started it … taking nothing away from Vrabes.. who knows ??? He could end up being the greatest Pat's coach evah!!!

 

[Sect140]

I guess the Brady vs Bellichick exhausted itself out so we are now on to Bellichik vs Vrabel. LOL!

 

[vicspats]

Kinda hard to compare.

In 2000 BB inherited cap issues and needed the year to clean that up whereas Vrabes had a ton of cash to work with.

Vrabes inherited a talented QB that became a franchise QB.

BB inherited a talented QB that needed to play for a year and two games until the actual franchise QB was ready.

At the end of the day both coaches had/have implemented their respective cultures successfully and got them to play to their potential as a team in a short period of time.

Different times, totally different coaching styles. We back baby!!!!

 

[NFL Mystique]

Bill had to navigate around Bledsoe's injury while helping Brady along. They faced alot of adversity. Bill topped it off by putting together a masterful game plan to neutralize the GSOT. Second biggest upset in SB history. Take a look at the predictions for that SB. It was supposed to be over by half-time. Miracle on turf.

Vrabel probably has a better offense and QB play. He is a leader and guys play for him. No quit. Nobody is giving the Patriots a chance in this game either. Hopefully Vrabel comes up with a game plan to pull a huge upset win of his own in two weeks.

 

[Patsman]

BB drafts stunk the last three years he was here, the cupboard was bare

Two words. Cole Strange.

It was more than 3 drafts. There was nothing more mind numbing than his trying to be unsuccessfully smarter than everyone else in an era of information at your fingertips. If the guy had just gone chalk with NFL analyts, he would have been in much better shape. Mel Kyper could have done better.

 

[TommyD4207]

Bill had to navigate around Bledsoe's injury and helping Brady along. They faced alot of adversity. Bill topped it off by putting together a masterful game plan to neutralize the GSOT. Second biggest upset in SB history. Take a look at the predictions for that SB. It was supposed to be over by half-time.

Vrabel probably has a better offense and QB play. But the league was much different in 01. Pulling off this massive upset would make his case better.

It's not nearly as massive an upset as being 14 point dogs in the Super Bowl.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Different times, totally different coaching styles. We back baby!!!!

Definitely. Tough to compare different eras.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Different times, totally different coaching styles. We back baby!!!!

We are back.

 

[reflexblue]

Two words. Cole Strange.

It was more than 3 drafts. There was nothing more mind numbing than his trying to be unsuccessfully smarter than everyone else in an era of information at your fingertips. If the guy had just gone chalk with NFL analyts, he would have been in much better shape. Mel Kyper could have done better.

After the strange Strange pick i turned the draft off, i couldn't take any longer, and i had been watching or listening to the draft since 1977. It was just very depressing

 

[NFL Mystique]

Different times, totally different coaching styles. We back baby!!!!

Definitely. Tough to compare different eras.

It's not nearly as massive an upset as being 14 point dogs in the Super Bowl.

Agreed. I don't think any other HC could have come up with a better game plan than Bill. But pulling out this win would be an unbelievable boost for Vrabel's career. Yes, I acknowledge that Vrabel has had a great career already.