PATRIOTS NEWS Breer: Eliot Wolf will stay. Relationship between Wolf and Vrabel worked from the start

[mike_usagisan]

Then you are indifferent if Wolf stays since Cowden is here.

Did you listen to Breer. Tonga and Woodson were because of Wolf and his staff and not Cowden.

That is not what he said. Listen to Breer again. “The scouts and the coaches” found those guys. That sounds like it includes Vrabel, Cowden and Wolf.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I like the checks and balances of having Wolf, we don't need Vrabel going all Bill and having too much power.

His coaching staff and drafting went down the toilet when he got too much power in Tennessee, it's too much for one man in the modern NFL.

It's more having someone who isn't just a Vrabel yes man in the room than it being Wolf though, it's easy when you're winning to say just let Vrabel do what he wants next minute you got coaching friends prospects being drafted and a bunch of friends kids all over the coaching staff.

They are all the same when they have absolute power, it's who they like over who's best and most qualified.

Vrabel wanted more power in Tennessee, but had less as the years went on. He was in conflict with a GM foisted upon him toward the end.

 

[Family]

Wolf personally picked Polk, so I am not sure how great of a scout he is.

I blame this more on his ability as a GM than scout.

From the way Wolf handled the draft it seemed he had a group of WR's rated equally enough, and chose to trade down to receive last available.

A good GM would have squashed this thinking.

 

[Rob0729]

That is not what he said. Listen to Breer again. “The scouts and the coaches” found those guys. That sounds like it includes Vrabel, Cowden and Wolf.

Who scouted them? Not Cowden. It was Wolf and his staff. And Cowden is neither a scout nor a coach. Cowden had input on decisions, but it was Wolf and his staff who scouted players and brought the ones who they felt were the best for the Patriots to then discuss whether to bring them to the Patriots.

There were some guys who were brought in because the coaching staff had familiarity with them because they coached them on other teams. But as Breer stated that Tonga wasn't one of those guys. He was found through scouting by Wolf and his staff.

Breer was clearly stating that Wolf and his team had a major influence in who was signed in free agency and the draft. Many of the Wolf haters act like Wolf was just cut out of the process and Vrabel and Cowden took over and did everything.

 

[Steve102]

He was using the tools Belichick allowed him to have for the scouting for the 2024 draft. He was drafting with one hand tied behind his back. He totally revamped the scouting department over the last two years to add things that most other teams had and the Pats didn’t like an advanced analytics department.

Not to mention a HC that likely gave him zero input as to what he wanted for player attributes.

 

[Rob0729]

I blame this more on his ability as a GM than scout.

From the way Wolf handled the draft it seemed he had a group of WR's rated equally enough, and chose to trade down to receive last available.

A good GM would have squashed this thinking.

The Pats traded down three spots in that draft. They didn't need a slot WR with Pop Douglas on the roster. So the reason they didn't stay there and take McConkey may not be that he had all the WRs rated equally enough. BTW, year 2 Ladd McConkey is a shell of what he was in his rookie season.

But Wolf was upset that that Mayo and his staff misused Polk and Baker. My guess is that Wolf drafted Polk as an Z possession WR who could get contested catches and the Patriots used him as an X down the field threat. I think Polk might have been far more successful in the former rather than the latter. Maybe he will with the Saints next year.

But Wolf didn't trade down with Maye. He certainly could have with all the QB prospects available and the draft capital offered. Belichick, based on his history, might have. Based on Belichick's history, he doesn't find there is much difference in a lot of QBs and would have rather traded down to pick up draft capital and selected Bo Nix or JJ McCarthy instead.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Who scouted them? Not Cowden. It was Wolf and his staff. And Cowden is neither a scout nor a coach. Cowden had input on decisions, but it was Wolf and his staff who scouted players and brought the ones who they felt were the best for the Patriots to then discuss whether to bring them to the Patriots.

There were some guys who were brought in because the coaching staff had familiarity with them because they coached them on other teams. But as Breer stated that Tonga wasn't one of those guys. He was found through scouting by Wolf and his staff.

Breer was clearly stating that Wolf and his team had a major influence in who was signed in free agency and the draft. Many of the Wolf haters act like Wolf was just cut out of the process and Vrabel and Cowden took over and did everything.

I think Wolf and the scouts did their job evaluating the players, but Vrabel and Cowden probably assessed how they would fit in Vrabel’s scheme. I’m fine saying that Wolf is better than his reputation, and that Vrabel has a good working relationship. Where I get hung up is saying that Wolf and the scouts were solely responsible for finding and picking these guys when that probably isn’t the case and isn’t what Breer said.

 

[Borg140]

Based on the effort the Kraft's made to shove Elliot Wolf down the viewer's throats in Forged in Foxboro, I'm going to say Wolf had very little to do with anything. This seems like pure propaganda from Breers Pats sources - Jonathan Kraft.

I lean toward that. I think they minimized his role in last year’s draft. Gasper has speculated on the same thing. It appears he may not really have a defined role with any responsibility.

 

[TomPatriot]

That is not what he said. Listen to Breer again. “The scouts and the coaches” found those guys. That sounds like it includes Vrabel, Cowden and Wolf.

Well, they knew what they wanted to find. Not so much when Mayo was the coach.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Who scouted them? Not Cowden. It was Wolf and his staff. And Cowden is neither a scout nor a coach. Cowden had input on decisions, but it was Wolf and his staff who scouted players and brought the ones who they felt were the best for the Patriots to then discuss whether to bring them to the Patriots.

There were some guys who were brought in because the coaching staff had familiarity with them because they coached them on other teams. But as Breer stated that Tonga wasn't one of those guys. He was found through scouting by Wolf and his staff.

Breer was clearly stating that Wolf and his team had a major influence in who was signed in free agency and the draft. Many of the Wolf haters act like Wolf was just cut out of the process and Vrabel and Cowden took over and did everything.

Of course the scouts scouted the draft picks. That is why there is a scouting department. You repeatedly post "Wolf and his team" like it is a stand alone entity and Vrabel and Cowden don't talk to the scouts.

What is your point? You are fighting against the "Wolf haters" by trying to minimize Cowden's involvement?

 

[FCB02062]

So who was responsible for picking Maye? Kraft?

A drunk monkey could've picked Maye. Wolf gets zero credit for Picking Maye - if he even did pick Maye

 

[Family]

The Pats traded down three spots in that draft. They didn't need a slot WR with Pop Douglas on the roster. So the reason they didn't stay there and take McConkey may not be that he had all the WRs rated equally enough.

This still sounds like bad GM decisions more than player evaluation so what point are you making?

 

[FCB02062]

I am not sure why Jonathan Kraft would want to be pushing Eliot Wolf propaganda at this point. Wolf isn't in danger of losing his job. There are no reports that Vrabel and Wolf are in conflict. And Wolf isn't seeking the spotlight.

Hell, the Breer report posted was broadcasted two days before I made this post and no one was talking about it. How is that propaganda? It isn't like anyone is trying to make this a major story.

Not making this all about you, but everyone in general. People have gotten so overboard with their suspicion of the media that they believe any story they don't like is some kind of fake news or propaganda.

Kraft has to pump up Wolf because Wolf is/was terrible at his job. the media does themselves no favors. 90% of the media (all media, not just sports) has an agenda, and 99% of sports media carry water for a favored source. The force feeding of Wolf during Forged in Foxboro was obvious to anyone who watched. Breer is a mouthpiece for ownership/GMs, Bedard is a mouthpiece for McDaniels, Tom Curran was a mouthpiece for Brady's father/Brady, Ron Borges and Kevin Mannix were vociferously anti-Belichick, Will McDonough was a mouthpiece for Parcells and the Maras....the list goes on and on and on.

 

[Rob0729]

I think Wolf and the scouts did their job evaluating the players, but Vrabel and Cowden probably assessed how they would fit in Vrabel’s scheme. I’m fine saying that Wolf is better than his reputation, and that Vrabel has a good working relationship. Where I get hung up is saying that Wolf and the scouts were solely responsible for finding and picking these guys when that probably isn’t the case and isn’t what Breer said.

I didn't say solely. I said it wasn't Cowden who found them.

 

[patchick]

A drunk monkey could've picked Maye. Wolf gets zero credit for Picking Maye - if he even did pick Maye

It takes a pretty committed drunk monkey to turn down an offer of 3 firsts from Minnesota for the pick.

IMO all signs are that Wolf is valuable within his sphere, that Vrabel likes working with him, and that the current personnel triumvirate is delivering exceptional results. Stay the course.

 

[Rob0729]

Kraft has to pump up Wolf because Wolf is/was terrible at his job. the media does themselves no favors. 90% of the media (all media, not just sports) has an agenda, and 99% of sports media carry water for a favored source. The force feeding of Wolf during Forged in Foxboro was obvious to anyone who watched. Breer is a mouthpiece for ownership/GMs, Bedard is a mouthpiece for McDaniels, Tom Curran was a mouthpiece for Brady's father/Brady, Ron Borges and Kevin Mannix were vociferously anti-Belichick, Will McDonough was a mouthpiece for Parcells and the Maras....the list goes on and on and on.

Ummm.... Wolf and everyone else involved did a spectacular job this past offseason. There is no need to pump Wolf up at this point. In fact, this is the worst time to be pumping Wolf up because it will get lost in all the other stories going on right now like Maye in the MVP race, playoff seeding, who do the Pats want to face in the playoffs, should the Pats try to win on Sunday in hopes to get the bye or rest starters, etc.

Again, it wasn't a major story and it didn't get picked up. It wasn't propaganda.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It takes a pretty committed drunk monkey to turn down an offer of 3 firsts from Minnesota for the pick.

It was 2 additional first round picks and both were bottom half of the first round. Jamal Adams was traded to the Seahawks for two later 1st round picks.

Even a drunk monkey would not trade a chance at a top 5 or 10 franchise QB for two additional later first round draft picks.

 

[Ring 6]

that was honestly the weirdest **** ever. i’ve never heard that you can’t take a QB not because of the prospect but because the team isn’t ready. Extremely stupid, you always take the QB if you believe in the kid.

This is the odd thing about a site like this.
You will always get the stray poster who makes outrageous claims

Then give it time and someone with an agenda brings it up and says it was the group think.

Trading down is always popular with some because it perceives more value. Turn 1 pick into 3.
I don’t ever remember a team needing a qb passing on a qb to trade down and pick the qb later so they could add picks.

Somehow in hindsight that’s what the mob wanted.
People will go to any length to defend someone they went to, in this case Wolf.

 

[Rob0729]

This still sounds like bad GM decisions more than player evaluation so what point are you making?

How is it a bad GM decision? What if McConkey is an one year wonder? He is the Chargers' #1 WR and he doesn't even have 800 yards yet this season and he has been catching only 62% of his targets. Has had more games of 20 or less yards (4) than over 100 (2) this season. He has been very average this at best.

People look at McConkey in hindsight. Many people wanted to avoid him because of his injury history.

But what I said was 100% about player evaluation. If I am correct, it would have been that Wolf evaluated Douglas as a player as good or better than McConkey and looking at McConkey as not a player of need since the position he plays is already filled.

Polk was a bad pick, but I wonder if he wouldn't have been if he was drafted this season with McDaniels and Vrabel rather than Mayo and Van Pelt. McDaniels would have at least used Polk the way he should have been used as a Z WR. He may still have busted out, but not in any way because of coaching incompetence.

 

[The Gr8est]

That would be a mistake. The smart move would be to name Cowden GM, because the minute the season is over teams are are going to start calling to make him their GM. The Patriots can avoid that by naming Cowden GM, pay him more $$$, and give him final say, that's how you block the rest of the league and keep the front office together.

I would also be worried about losing Stretch.

I read something a while ago that said that Stretch’s goal was to become a GM.

BB’s staff got raided heavily too once the Pats’ dynasty took root and showed fruit.

I would like to see them keep the band together as long as possible but I guess it is inevitable.

Of Stretch, Cowden, and Wolf, Wolf seems the most expendable to me.