A question on my mind virtually every day [Would BB draft Maye]

[Ian]

If anything I think the Cam Newton experiment would have made him run screaming away from guys he didn't believe were good pocket passers. Cam was the worst quarterback I have ever seen.

He started out fine, but man ... he fell off a cliff. That was one of the wildest things I've ever seen. And the fact that Belichick never let Stidham see more time that year still blows my mind. Stidham went from a guy they loved to an outcast. I get there were other circumstances involved there, but I still can't get over how things played out that year.

 

[signbabybrady]

Literally 99% of everyone. Now that is a very high percentage. Can you show everyone where you gleamed those figures from I'm sure we all shall love to see them, or you could let us have a link, that would be terribly helpful. I for one do not remember being asked.

Since it 3 years too late for the study this is AI is the most time I'm willing to spend. I suppose %99 was hyperbole.

 

[sb1]

He started out fine, but man ... he fell off a cliff. That was one of the wildest things I've ever seen. And the fact that Belichick never let Stidham see more time that year still blows my mind. Stidham went from a guy they loved to an outcast. I get there were other circumstances involved there, but I still can't get over how things played out that year.

I changed my opinion on Stid getting snaps at the end of the year. I thought they already saw Stidham in practice so what was the point... but now I feel they should have put him in there.

 

[reflexblue]

 

[signbabybrady]

If Maye had busted I guarantee everyone that SBB would be screaming out how Belichick never drafted any quarterback who wasn't a good pocket passer in his career, but since Maye is great he now wants to pretend that Belichick would have taken the guy he dissed on draft night, and they guy he claimed was the worst pocket passer of the top quarterbacks.

Same to you just other way around it's why your conclusion was dumb to begin with.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Not in a million years. He would have traded down

I think one of the conditions to him returning would've been that he wouldn't have control over the 3rd pick. Kraft would've done to BB what he did to Parcells in 1996. I think Bill would've caved as he clearly doesn't want to be coaching college football.

 

[signbabybrady]

The notifications are something I need to figure out, so I get it. I'll be digging further into that this offseason. But if a user doesn't want you to see their content, that does include their interactions with other users.

It's a public forum. He shouldn't be able to hide his content from anyone. If he doesn't want people to see it don't post it. I keep pointing out you can't it hide it from someone not logged in so why censor your members that way?

If he doesn't want to interact he blocks me and his problem is solved. That should in no way change my experience. If someone else doesn't like the way I respond to him they can block me too. I don't see what allowing someone who hates me to censor me accomplishes?

 

[sb1]

I think one of the conditions to him returning would've been that he wouldn't have control over the 3rd pick. Kraft would've done to BB what he did to Parcells in 1996. I think Bill would've caved as he clearly doesn't want to be coaching college football.

I love how Bill pretended he always wanted to coach college football. Bigtime cope imo for not getting an NFL job.

Bill Belichick says he's 'always wanted' to coach college football. Now he will at North Carolina

New North Carolina football coach Bill Belichick, who led the New England Patriots to six Super Bowl titles during a 24-year run there that ended last year, said he had long been interested in coaching in the college ranks. But it had never worked out until now, as he takes over the Tar Heels...

www.pbs.org

 

[upstater1]

Literally 99% of everyone. Now that is a very high percentage. Can you show everyone where you gleamed those figures from I'm sure we all shall love to see them, or you could let us have a link, that would be terribly helpful. I for one do not remember being asked.

I vouch for his statistic.

 

[sb1]

Yes, "in-the-pocket."

But at the same time he said makes amazing throws, has all the tools, can make any throw on the football field. Drake even now bails really fast from the pocket and gives up on routes. How is this not a valid critique? He still doesn't have the best pocket presence.

And that's OK because he's developing it, and Belichick said he has all the tools, and the things he doesn't have CAN BE developed.

That's exactly what a raw QB is. No way Bill anoints such a guy to be his franchise QB. Not based on past behavior as I said. Certainly not at his age approaching that record. And why would he pick a guy like Maye when he will likely be retired when Maye in his prime?

 

[upstater1]

I think one of the conditions to him returning would've been that he wouldn't have control over the 3rd pick. Kraft would've done to BB what he did to Parcells in 1996. I think Bill would've caved as he clearly doesn't want to be coaching college football.

??

Uh, do we not remember that Mayo and some of the defensive coaches (Covington, etc.) lead a mutiny from within and that they were holding separate meetings away from Belichick and Steve Belichick.

The decision to break from Belichick was made early during the season. There was no coming back.

Kraft wanted to fire him in 2017, considered it again in 2019, and definitely after 2022.

so how was Belichick coming back under any condition for 2024 when Mayo had already been making the moves?

 

[signbabybrady]

I think one of the conditions to him returning would've been that he wouldn't have control over the 3rd pick. Kraft would've done to BB what he did to Parcells in 1996. I think Bill would've caved as he clearly doesn't want to be coaching college football.

Without even assuming any kind of conditions the collaboration that was already in place for a few seasons certainly would have been driving hard for Maye. And despite what people think Bill actually was very good at listening to his guys. Sure there were a few times he went after a special teamer or Lenoir rein/Rutgers guys being outliers. In particular the documentary on the Cleveland years shows very much a think tank of information going both directions.

 

[Ian]

It's a public forum. He shouldn't be able to hide his content from anyone. If he doesn't want people to see it don't post it. I keep pointing out you can't it hide it from someone not logged in so why censor your members that way?

If he doesn't want to interact he blocks me and his problem is solved. That should in no way change my experience. If someone else doesn't like the way I respond to him they can block me too. I don't see what allowing someone who hates me to censor me accomplishes?

I didn't come up with the concept, I just implemented it here, and it's in the hands of the people who do/don't choose to use it. I'll definitely fix the notification issue, which will solve that last problem of you getting pinged.

But the days of mods deleting posts and getting into it with people are over, barring circumstances where it is necessary, which is fortunately less frequent these days. And it benefits the community as a whole if two people who shouldn't be interacting aren't, even if it means utilizing the block function, rather than me trying to ask them to place each other on ignore. Which I can tell you from experience has almost never happened.

 

[signbabybrady]

That's exactly what a raw QB is. No way Bill anoints such a guy to be his franchise QB. Not based on past behavior as I said. Certainly not at his age approaching that record. And why would he pick a guy like Maye when he will likely retire when Maye in his prime?

@Ian

Oh look some one lifted the block for a second lol but he doesn't play games with your tools.

 

[upstater1]

That's exactly what a raw QB is. No way Bill anoints such a guy to be his franchise QB. Not based on past behavior as I said. Certainly not at his age approaching that record. And why would he pick a guy like Maye when he will likely retire when Maye in his prime?

Because Bill was NEVER a short-term coach, he always invited for the long haul, even when he was at the end of his time here. During his entire career he never took short cuts.

 

[upstater1]

I love how Bill pretended he always wanted to coach college football. Bigtime cope imo for not getting an NFL job.

Bill Belichick says he's 'always wanted' to coach college football. Now he will at North Carolina

New North Carolina football coach Bill Belichick, who led the New England Patriots to six Super Bowl titles during a 24-year run there that ended last year, said he had long been interested in coaching in the college ranks. But it had never worked out until now, as he takes over the Tar Heels...

www.pbs.org

Why does this surprise you? Given his father's background and his earliest days on college campuses? The guy used to go down to Wesleyan and watch sports all the time. I didn't find this surprising at all. Did he want to coach in the NFL as a priority? Sure. But that doesn't mean he didn't always want to coach college football. This is like someone forbidden from going to Tahiti, their preferred destination, then going to Bali instead and declaring, "I always wanted to go to Bali!"

Do you spend your days just thinking up new ways to twist things when it comes to Belichick?

 

[upstater1]

I don't think it is that Belichick is against developing a QB. In fact, he has always been adept at that from Brady to Cassel to Garoppolo. I think Belichick played a big role in developing all of them.

I personally thinks he feels he can develop a lesser QB into a winner than he believes he has to draft a QB high because if you don't you cannot get a franchise QB. I genuinely think he believes he can develop someone like a Jimmy Garoppolo who was an unheralded second round pick into a winner and that is why he passed on Lamar Jackson.

This is why I think he might have traded with either the Giants or Vikings rather than draft Maye because he thought he could have made McCarthy or Nix or Penix a franchise QB.

He didn't select Lamar Jackson because he had an owner who gave him grief for having a plan to move on from a 40 year-old QB and he had a QB and owner clamoring for offensive weapons, so much so that they brough in the kitchen-cupboard and expended a ton of resources to get them (i.e. Demaryiuous Thomas, Killer Antonio Brown, Mohammed Sanu and of course, our favorite, N'Keal Harry). Given all the acrimony, I don't think taking a 1st round QB was in the cards.

And by the way, coming out of college many people would've thought that Lamar Jackson was a huge project in need of a lot of development, a project. I fail to see how people like Nix or Penix could be considered lesser while taking Lamar would've been something else.

It makes no sense to me anyway that someone would say, "I'll take Nix and prove I can win with him instead of the better QB Drake Maye." Especially given all the scouting beforehand about both QBs.

I've only ever heard Belichick speak about the importance of having a great QB and the need for one as it relates to winning.

Everything in his prior experience would've told him that a winning QB was necessary.

LOSING with Bernie Kosar, Drew Bledsoe and Mac Jones.
WINNING with Vinny Testaverde and Tom Brady.

How can we say he wanted to win with a mediocre QB when everything in his experience showed the wins come with superior QB-play, almost immediately when the team moved on from mediocre QBs?

 

[upstater1]

Bill absolutely wanted to break that record. I doubt he felt that a raw QB that needed a lot of coaching would get him there faster than a polished guy like McCarthy or Nix.

He just had a polished guy in Mac Jones. That went nowhere fast.

Besides, it was pretty clear on draft day in 2021 that he went with the room's consensus. It was his decision to take Mac Jones. But it was also really clear that within that room, there were people who believed in Mac, and people who didn't. Every time we've seen draft room video of the minutes leading up to the first pick, we never one saw Belichick requesting critics speak up prior to the selection.

This means that Belichick validated the pick of Mac Jones even though there was dissension in the room.

What makes you think he wouldn't have done the same? I'm not even saying he preferred say Nix to Maye (there's no evidence of that). What makes you think he'd overrule the consensus? He didn't do it in 2021.

One caveat to all this: while I don't think McCarthy really impressed any of the scouts including Belichick, I do believe Nix did. There were a lot of people who preferred Nix even over Daniels and Caleb Williams. You have to realize that Nix had a ton going for him prior to that draft. For one, he has a super strong arm. He had a ton of experience against top competition. And get this, Nix is the most accurate QB in NCAA history. Nix is actually the kind of guy who, in another draft, would have gone #1.

I would not have been surprised if Belichick had taken Nix over Maye because in my mind, that would've been a reasonable decision. McCarthy or Penix over Maye? No way.

The only mystery for me here is how in the world Minnesota and Atlanta passed on Bo Nix.

 

[TheRainMaker]

??

Uh, do we not remember that Mayo and some of the defensive coaches (Covington, etc.) lead a mutiny from within and that they were holding separate meetings away from Belichick and Steve Belichick.

I don't. I had posted an article a while ago that BB didn't approve of Mayo being the successor and stopped talking to him as the 2023 season went on.

Kraft wanted to fire him in 2017, considered it again in 2019, and definitely after 2022.

Kraft was waiting to fire him in 2001 when Bill decided to start Brady over Bledsoe. Kraft is that guy who tells you behind the scenes you are wrong, then takes full credit publicly when you make the right decision. Kraft has said in the documentary he's the reason for the Patriots success.

so how was Belichick coming back under any condition for 2024 when Mayo had already been making the moves?

Mayo is an ungrateful turd. We found out the reason why Bill didn't approve of him.

Without even assuming any kind of conditions the collaboration that was already in place for a few seasons certainly would have been driving hard for Maye. And despite what people think Bill actually was very good at listening to his guys. Sure there were a few times he went after a special teamer or Lenoir rein/Rutgers guys being outliers. In particular the documentary on the Cleveland years shows very much a think tank of information going both directions.

Bill knew he needed a QB, so I don't think he would've done the dreaded trade down and taken a random player.

 

[XLIX]

I think one of the conditions to him returning would've been that he wouldn't have control over the 3rd pick. Kraft would've done to BB what he did to Parcells in 1996. I think Bill would've caved as he clearly doesn't want to be coaching college football.

That would have been an awful tough pill to swallow. People generally don’t stay in an organization trying to demote them (Parcells was contractually obligated to stay but got out as soon as he could). Plus at the time he didn’t know there’d be no demand for him in the NFL ranks.