Surely Our Deep Depth In The Secondary Played A Lot In This Blowout Game. NOT!

[captain stone]

Surely Our Deep Depth In The Secondary Played A Lot In This Blowout Game. NOT!

In a blowout, the Gameday backups got zero reps.

The following were in on 100% of the defensive snaps
Gonzo
Davis
Woodson
Dugger

with Jones in on 100% of the reps when we played a 5th DB (he played 83% of the total defensive reps).
=========
PLEASE, PLEASE
don't tell me how much depth we have in the secondary. We have Dugger and Woods; full stop. And I am very glad that we have both. And, yes, I know that Peppers was allowed to move on rather than being a backup, sometimes getting almost no reps. Vrabel needed one of those and kept Dugger.

Austin and the rest were not even worthy of garbage time reps. It is good that the game didn't require them to play any reps that mattered.

Shhh, don't tell that to those here who believe our roster is perfect in every single way; and golly gee, it's just too gosh darn hard to to re-make a roster in one season... Just let Eliot & Matt continue their naps; they need the rest after all: it's been only 5 months since the draft & free agency ended... Besides, they already drafted Kobee Minor & claimed Charlie Woods; what more do ya people expect?

 

[TommyD4207]

Shhh, don't tell that to those here who believe our roster is perfect in every single way; and golly gee, it's just too gosh darn hard to to re-make a roster in one season... Just let Eliot & Matt continue their naps; they need the rest after all: it's been only 5 months since the draft & free agency ended...

Yeah, there it is, there's the set-up.

You had them for 6 wins to start the season.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

We definitely have the CBs to be a man coverage team but that has to work for everyone. If the CBs are playing man then you can't hide the LBs and Ss in zone. Because what happens if the backs and TEs go out of their zone while the CBs are running with receivers. You can incorporate some combination coverages but hard to do that consistently well. That's more like a tendency wrinkly where you do it against certain teams/formations in certain situations where you're kind of gambling on what's coming on the play.

Lots of really good pieces on this defense, but I think they still have some smoothing out to do personnel wise so they can really cohesively line up their coverage/pass rush/run fit schemes. I think being weak at LB/S and kind of "meh" at edge just give you some challenges lining all that up. They've been good so far, but mostly weak schedule and you can see the cracks in the armor.

That's more than OK. Great progress and this defense is still good enough for us to make playoffs and be frisky.

 

[Bill Lee]

That's more than OK. Great progress and this defense is still good enough for us to make playoffs and be frisky.

Sure, but that's when they break our damn hearts!

Just kidding, hope we do have a strong season overall, and whatever happens in the playoffs happens.

They are already well ahead of their schedule as far as I am concerned.

 

[Ring 6]

Shhh, don't tell that to those here who believe our roster is perfect in every single way; and golly gee, it's just too gosh darn hard to to re-make a roster in one season... Just let Eliot & Matt continue their naps; they need the rest after all: it's been only 5 months since the draft & free agency ended... Besides, they already drafted Kobee Minor & claimed Charlie Woods; what more do ya people expect?

They turned over more than 50% of the snaps.
You are worried about a 7th round pick and a special teams waiver claim while ignoring a rebuild that has us going from a 4 win season to 5-2?

Do you really think we aren’t making roster moves because the front office is lazy and slacking off? Seriously?

Given your evaluation of the off season maybe it’s a good sign you feel that way.

 

[Ring 6]

What's silly about asking your Man coverage CBs actually play man coverage?? Are the LBs covering WRs or are the CBs covering them.?

When you play man you also have to cover TEs and WRs.
What’s best for the corner isn’t necessarily what’s best for the defense as a whole.

 

[Real fan 02]

Sure, but that's when they break our damn hearts!

Just kidding, hope we do have a strong season overall, and whatever happens in the playoffs happens.

They are already well ahead of their schedule as far as I am concerned.

What i hope for as a fan is not a repeat of 2021 season.. I feel this team is much better organizationally then it's been in years. That season post bye week they faded.. I believe Josh being here is going to be huge in reminding the team of that.

 

[mgteich]

You took away the fact that the secondary played 100% of the snaps...

What you should have taken away / asked was why they played 100% of the snaps...

I think it has a lot to do with the LB's and EDGE rushers... We just brought in a new LB Caleb Murphy three days ago... Landry played a season low 37 snaps(70%) ... newly activated Jahlani Tavai only played 15 snaps (22%) ... Keion White has seen his number steadily decrease since the Carolina game...

With the unevenness in the front of the defense, it makes sense that the DC would want to keep the strongest unit out on the field...

While it was unlikely the Titans could have mounted a comeback, the Giants/Broncos game (33 points in one quarter) is a stark reminder the game isn't over until the clock hits 0:00

???
Jennings got reps.
Bryant got reps.
Lowe got reps.
2 weeks ago Schooler got reps.

My understanding may be wrong. However, my reading is that for Vrabel Austin, Battle, and Pettus are not to be relied on even in garbage time.

And just BTW, your statement that there is no garbage time until there is 0:00 on the clock is belied by the fact that guys like Bryant got reps.

 

[Real fan 02]

When you play man you also have to cover TEs and WRs.
What’s best for the corner isn’t necessarily what’s best for the defense as a whole.

Understand.. but are you maximizing your potential as a defense playing zone where as if it's a mobile QB we as fans completely understand.. however gonzo didn't become an all pro for his zone coverage he made it shutting guys down Manning up WRs. Just my opinion

 

[DarrylS]

Prior to his ankle issues Duggar was playing much more aggressively than he is now.. difficult to tell if his lackluster play is because he doesn't have the same desire as before or if he is still somewhat injured.
My eyeballs tell me he is not the same guy..

 

[Real fan 02]

Prior to his ankle issues Duggar was playing much more aggressively than he is now.. difficult to tell if his lackluster play is because he doesn't have the same desire as before or if he is still somewhat injured.
My eyeballs tell me he is not the same guy..

2022 Dugger was a borderline pro bowl caliber player. We've seen him playing at a high level before. Dugger said himself the ankle was more serious than initially diagnosed. With age, wear n tear.. players don't get healthier as thier carers go on. fortunately Dugger he's got financial security for his family.. after this season it probably it for him in NE and possibly the league.

 

[Pape]

???
Jennings got reps.
Bryant got reps.
Lowe got reps.
2 weeks ago Schooler got reps.

My understanding may be wrong. However, my reading is that for Vrabel Austin, Battle, and Pettus are not to be relied on even in garbage time.

And just BTW, your statement that there is no garbage time until there is 0:00 on the clock is belied by the fact that guys like Bryant got reps.

You are all over the place... First, you beg people not to discuss the depth we do have... Well, thats plain ole stupid... Ever think a correlation can be made between a lack of quality depth and playing time for the subs? but you don't want to talk about that... so lets leave off how thin the secondary ranks are...

now you name three guys Jennings (a linebacker) Bryant & Lowe two OFFENSIVE TACKLES ... what on Gods Green Earth do they have to do with the Secondary???

Your understanding may be wrong? ... *sigh*... not touching that one with a ten foot pole...

But heres our depth in the secondary-
Alex Austin is not good... has only played special teams snaps in the last three games...
Dell Pettus is not good... has only played special teams snaps in the last three games...
Miles Battle played three snaps vs Tennessee... so there ya go, a sub got reps... otherwise he has not been on the active roster all year...
Kobe Minor - i don't think he been elevated from the practice squad
Charles Woods & Richie Grant - GEE I WONDER WHY THEY BROUGHT THESE GUYS IN???

and my statement regarding garbage time is not belied by the fact that a guy like Bryant got reps... wanna know why? Because he played six reps on ****ing offense...

Maybe these guys get more reps in the future... but they have to earn it on the practice field first.

 

[rkarp1]

I think health has played a role too
Dugger has not been at full health until perhaps the last game. he did play 100% of the defensive snaps and 48% of the ST snaps.
I like him playing in the box. imo, that has always been his strength.
If he is 100% healthy, I keep him in that SS in the box role, with Mapu also getting some snaps.
I like the CB's in man, with Hawkins in single high.
Woodson would play back up snaps at FS behind Hawkins.
to the best of my knowledge, Hawkins and Dugger have not both been 100% in a single game yet.
I like Austin against a big slot WR, or a 2 TE offense.

 

[Ring 6]

Understand.. but are you maximizing your potential as a defense playing zone where as if it's a mobile QB we as fans completely understand.. however gonzo didn't become an all pro for his zone coverage he made it shutting guys down Manning up WRs. Just my opinion

Again, what’s best for Gonzalez isn’t necessarily what’s best for the entire defense. Taking away a large area of the field is just as good as taking away one receiver. Better when him taking away that one receiver requires a defense that exposes a lesser player to getting burned.

Would you rather shot down one player and lose than play team defense and win?

 

[Drake&BarmoreFTW]

Google Search

With all due respect, I barely post here. If I was getting something other than "safety", with the exception of 1 page that lists him as a strong safety (but it's for Madden, so take it with a grain of salt), I wouldn't have asked here.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Like to see Kurh playing more man going forward.. I feel that our best CB Gonzo, Davis and Marcus are good man Coverage CBs.. the zone coverage and playing off receivers is too easy for offenses.. we aren't playing Josh Allen each week. What's your take on that?

If the offense is playing 5 wide and we are playing man, we need 5 CBs to cover all of the WRs. Typically that is the dime package. We have Gonzo, Davis, and Jones. Who are the other two cover corners you like in man coverage?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

With all due respect, I barely post here. If I was getting something other than "safety", with the exception of 1 page that lists him as a strong safety (but it's for Madden, so take it with a grain of salt), I wouldn't have asked here.

We have talked about what kind of safeties Woodson, Dugger, and Hawkins are. I divide safeties into run support, zone, and cover man. I don't think any of the three are good at covering a fast WR, especially on long Go routes. Devin McCourty was the opposite of the three.

I also think of safeties as good at single high, or multiple high. Single high has to have a lot of speed and range. Once there is 2 or 3 high, the safeties don't have to be so fast. Woodson and Dugger are much better at 2 high, and one might drop down quickly.

So to answer your question, and others disagree with me, Dugger, Hawkins, and Woodson are not single high safeties IMO. They play it once in awhile, but not a lot. Hawkins is supposed to be more of a cover safety, but I don't see it. So I call them hybrid safeties that accel at run support, zone, and with the play in front of them. I have advocated picking a cover safety in the 2026 draft to compliment Woodson and Dugger, and directly support playing more man coverage.

Woodson and Mapu should both be able to support covering TEs and RBs.

 

[mgteich]

You are all over the place... First, you beg people not to discuss the depth we do have... Well, thats plain ole stupid... Ever think a correlation can be made between a lack of quality depth and playing time for the subs? but you don't want to talk about that... so lets leave off how thin the secondary ranks are...

now you name three guys Jennings (a linebacker) Bryant & Lowe two OFFENSIVE TACKLES ... what on Gods Green Earth do they have to do with the Secondary???

Your understanding may be wrong? ... *sigh*... not touching that one with a ten foot pole...

But heres our depth in the secondary-
Alex Austin is not good... has only played special teams snaps in the last three games...
Dell Pettus is not good... has only played special teams snaps in the last three games...
Miles Battle played three snaps vs Tennessee... so there ya go, a sub got reps... otherwise he has not been on the active roster all year...
Kobe Minor - i don't think he been elevated from the practice squad
Charles Woods & Richie Grant - GEE I WONDER WHY THEY BROUGHT THESE GUYS IN???

and my statement regarding garbage time is not belied by the fact that a guy like Bryant got reps... wanna know why? Because he played six reps on ****ing offense...

Maybe these guys get more reps in the future... but they have to earn it on the practice field first.

1) We don't have any depth that we can count on except for Dugger.
2) Because there will be injuries, those next in line shouldn't have to earn the right to help the starters from being injured. That is their role. Those who could be next up if there are injuries should be getting reps in garbage time.
3) So, I agree with you that these are poor backups. I also believe that they should reps in garbage time so that maybe they can get to be a little more ready to play if needed.
4) I left Woods out in error. I guess that he is getting a few reps when healthy and has moved ahead of the invisible Austin.

 

[n1997y]

4) I left Woods out in error. I guess that he is getting a few reps when healthy and has moved ahead of the invisible Austin.

let’s hope so.