NFL Trade Deadline Discourse

[TommyD4207]

Yesterday was the highest percentage of offensive snaps Hollins has played all year. Against PIT he played more total snaps on offense (46 that day to 43 yesterday) but that was a lower percentage of the total plays (62.2% that day to 66..2% yesterday). So if you think he didn't get as many snaps, your eyes were deceiving you.

You're counting run snaps, which is a different animal. Do you want Hollins at 6'4" 220 in on crackback blocks? Or Pop Douglas?

Mack Hollins has been fine. The slander and libel this guy is getting is bordering on Steph Gilmore level.

 

[Family]

He has been fine but he's not a WR #2. Boutte is and he has the most snaps. Diggs at 55-65% feels right at his age and coming off of injury.

Exactly Hollins is the #4 WR who gets snaps because he works well with the group.

He's Satch Sanders for those of us old enough.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

You're counting run snaps, which is a different animal. Do you want Hollins at 6'4" 220 in on crackback blocks? Or Pop Douglas?

Mack Hollins has been fine. The slander and libel this guy is getting is bordering on Steph Gilmore level.

He has a role here and does it well, I don't get the hate.
Maybe it's the Twins clamouring for every WR in the NFL over him that have skewed people's opinions.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

You're counting run snaps, which is a different animal. Do you want Hollins at 6'4" 220 in on crackback blocks? Or Pop Douglas?

Mack Hollins has been fine. The slander and libel this guy is getting is bordering on Steph Gilmore level.

No one is slandering or libeling him. I'm explicitly calling him a solid player. Glad he's on the team. I think he's a nice guy to have on the roster. It's a weak spot on our depth chart so he's playing more than ideal. That just is what it is.

It's nice to have a blocking specialist at WR but part of why our run game has struggled this year is because team keep an extra man at the LOS and play two-deep so infrequently, which any defense is more apt to do when they view the WRs as weaker. So yeah taking Hollins out for a more decent #3 WR might be a downgrade in blocking but it also could mean one less guy to block with to begin with. If the blocking is a problem you can put Hollins back out there. No one is saying cut him and I'm not saying we need to go get someone to play 100% of the snaps.

 

[TommyD4207]

No one is slandering or libeling him. I'm explicitly calling him a solid player. Glad he's on the team. I think he's a nice guy to have on the roster. It's a weak spot on our depth chart so he's playing more than ideal. That just is what it is.

It's nice to have a blocking specialist at WR but part of why our run game has struggled this year is because team keep an extra man at the LOS and play two-deep so infrequently, which any defense is more apt to do when they view the WRs as weaker. So yeah taking Hollins out for a more decent #3 WR might be a downgrade in blocking but it also could mean one less guy to block with to begin with. If the blocking is a problem you can put Hollins back out there. No one is saying cut him and I'm not saying we need to go get someone to play 100% of the snaps.

Is the passing game bad?

 

[Family]

We know Diggs is a mental case.

Why change a FINALLY working chemistry mid season?

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Is the passing game bad?

No. But that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

And like I said, the running game HAS been bad and one of the ways to help it would be to force defenses to play more cover 2 and take a guy out from near the LOS. You make progress toward that if you have a better 3rd WR for when you want to run those formations. As opposed to Hollins which is more like 22 personnel with 2 TEs and 2 WRs.

That's all just incremental improvement. No need to run from it. Very odd the way people are denying it's a spot that could obviously be improved.

 

[n1997y]

We know Diggs is a mental case.

Why change a FINALLY working chemistry mid season?

Diggs is a mental case? Why haven’t we seen any hint of that this season. Well other than that pink baggy I mean.

 

[Family]

Diggs is a mental case? Why haven’t we seen any hint of that this season. Well other than that pink baggy I mean.

I remember the piece where Vikings players were asked who they didn't want their sister to date. They all answered Diggs, and said it was because he was crazy.

They asked Diggs and he named someone else. The interviewer told him everyone said him so why did he choose this other person, and Diggs replied, "Cause he's ugly."

 

[TommyD4207]

No. But that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

And like I said, the running game HAS been bad and one of the ways to help it would be to force defenses to play more cover 2 and take a guy out from near the LOS. You make progress toward that if you have a better 3rd WR for when you want to run those formations. As opposed to Hollins which is more like 22 personnel with 2 TEs and 2 WRs.

That's all just incremental improvement. No need to run from it. Very odd the way people are denying it's a spot that could obviously be improved.

Yes, incremental improvement is what you need to build a program.
Trading draft capital in the middle of the season for a flashy WR that will take a couple weeks to get up to speed, and put productive players on the bench, doesn't sound like a great idea.

This is something you address in the offseason, not in the first 7 games of a rebuild.

Patriots are tourching man coverage. They're tourching zone coverage. Titans came out in zone, and got gashed by Stevenson. Switched to man, and got gashed by Maye running.

You can't have 53 all-pros on the roster, and even if you did, you couldn't pay them all, and if you could, they wouldn't necessarily fill all the roles that need to be filled.

Go trade for Olave in the offseason. I like that idea a lot. Trading for him during the season shakes up a team that's rolling, for no reason. It's not a glaring need or a hole.

 

[Ross12]

We know Diggs is a mental case.

Why change a FINALLY working chemistry mid season?

I get the point, but I also think Olave doesn’t really tip the scales there. As far as I know he’s not really a high ego guy. And he’s young enough where he probably also will look to Diggs as the “alpha” in the room which is really all Diggs wants.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

No. But that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

And like I said, the running game HAS been bad and one of the ways to help it would be to force defenses to play more cover 2 and take a guy out from near the LOS. You make progress toward that if you have a better 3rd WR for when you want to run those formations. As opposed to Hollins which is more like 22 personnel with 2 TEs and 2 WRs.

That's all just incremental improvement. No need to run from it. Very odd the way people are denying it's a spot that could obviously be improved.

We've averaged 30.5 pis/game over our 4 game win streak.
243 passing yards/game
7 tds.
Every team could improve, but the question is "are those passing numbers good enough to win", and the answer is a resounding yes.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You stated the big thing here, while we and media feel the timeline has sped up I don't think Vrabel feels that way

I agree. I don't think the timeline has sped up, but I do think they are ahead of schedule. The fact that they are playing meaningful game already is going to test them, and should help them going forward.

 

[Huckleberry1]

He has a role here and does it well, I don't get the hate.
Maybe it's the Twins clamouring for every WR in the NFL over him that have skewed people's opinions.

Anyone influenced by the twins shouldn't be allowed to use a phone or computer.

 

[Toofy]

Winning is a aphrodisiac. It will allow everyone to punch above their weight. Douglas , hooper and Boutte TD catches were examples of receivers bailing out their QB with phenomenal catches.

No need to anybody new now.. everyone is buying Ina and eventually we might see contributiona from Henderson and Williams too.

We need some talent / depth on edge rushing, cornerback, linebacker and safeties. Get that and we are more primed for a deep playoff run.

Hopefully gonzo and Davis come to form then .

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Why do people want to add a safety, linebacker, edge rusher or CB? Why do we need to improve the defense? We're 5th in points allowed per game. Sure, some spots might be weak but why ruin the chemistry? Sure, Jaylin Hawkins is ass but aren't people worried about working a new guy in midseason? What if the chemistry/communication is bad between Woodson and the new guy? Everyone is buying into their role and they're playing well enough to win.

Doesn't that logic sound pretty ridiculous?

 

[TommyD4207]

Why do people want to add a safety, linebacker, edge rusher or CB? Why do we need to improve the defense? We're 5th in points allowed per game. Sure, some spots might be weak but why ruin the chemistry? Sure, Jaylin Hawkins is ass but aren't people worried about working a new guy in midseason? What if the chemistry/communication is bad between Woodson and the new guy? Everyone is buying into their role and they're playing well enough to win.

Doesn't that logic sound pretty ridiculous?

No, because there are actual holes at linebacker and safety. There are players there who can't really play at a good enough level.

WR does not have that issue. Mack Hollins isn't dropping passes. He isn't getting shut down as a primary option. He's a guy who's good at blocking, so he's in on run plays. He's fine.

Christian Elliss is bad.
Jelani Tavai is bad.
Jaylin Hawkins is bad.
Mack Hollins is not bad.

Hope that clears it up for you.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Why do people want to add a safety, linebacker, edge rusher or CB? Why do we need to improve the defense? We're 5th in points allowed per game. Sure, some spots might be weak but why ruin the chemistry? Sure, Jaylin Hawkins is ass but aren't people worried about working a new guy in midseason? What if the chemistry/communication is bad between Woodson and the new guy? Everyone is buying into their role and they're playing well enough to win.

Doesn't that logic sound pretty ridiculous?

Clever.
However it's not the same.
Our pass rush has been non-existent in a couple of big spots the past few games.
Rattler had way too much time on some 3rd downs in obv passing situations when a drive ending sack/pressure could've really put that game out of reach much earlier. That will catch up with us against better teams.
I haven't seen our WRs let us down in big moments and the passing numbers prove that.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Clever.
However it's not the same.
Our pass rush has been non-existent in a couple of big spots the past few games.
Rattler had way too much time on some 3rd downs in obv passing situations when a drive ending sack/pressure could've really put that game out of reach much earlier. That will catch up with us against better teams.
I haven't seen our WRs let us down in big moments and the passing numbers prove that.

Were there no big moments in the opener where we only scored 13 points Maye averaged a paltry 6.2 yards/attempt on 46 attempts?

What about against PIT when we only managed 14 points? Hollins/Douglas/Williams had 10 targets between them (out of 37 total, so 27%) and only managed 42 yards, including that last 4th down conversion attempt where Douglas went backwards on a play right at the marker.

We had a great win against BUF. But NO/MIA/TEN are clearly 3 of the worst teams in the NFL. And CAR has started to play respectably, but I don't think anyone would be surprised if that's a blip and they end up in the bottom of the standings (they also have extreme home/road splits and we got them at Gillette). I'd hesitate to use our success so far as some ultimate barometer or trump card.

Like I keep saying, we've been a very productive passing offense. I'm not acting as if that's the case. But 3 WR personnel is our most used formation and we don't have a 3rd WR who really belongs as a primary starter. That just is what it is. No shame in admitting that. IDK why people refuse to. It's odd to me. If we had a decent 3rd WR, that'd help the offense and better the chances that this production can be maintained or improved upon. That's all I'm saying.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Were there no big moments in the opener where we only scored 13 points Maye averaged a paltry 6.2 yards/attempt on 46 attempts?

What about against PIT when we only managed 14 points? Hollins/Douglas/Williams had 10 targets between them (out of 37 total, so 27%) and only managed 42 yards, including that last 4th down conversion attempt where Douglas went backwards on a play right at the marker.

We had a great win against BUF. But NO/MIA/TEN are clearly 3 of the worst teams in the NFL. And CAR has started to play respectably, but I don't think anyone would be surprised if that's a blip and they end up in the bottom of the standings (they also have extreme home/road splits and we got them at Gillette). I'd hesitate to use our success so far as some ultimate barometer or trump card.

Like I keep saying, we've been a very productive passing offense. I'm not acting as if that's the case. But 3 WR personnel is our most used formation and we don't have a 3rd WR who really belongs as a primary starter. That just is what it is. No shame in admitting that. IDK why people refuse to. It's odd to me. If we had a decent 3rd WR, that'd help the offense and better the chances that this production can be maintained or improved upon. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not completely disregarding your point, I get what you are saying.
However, look at the #3 WR numbers across the league, are they head and shoulders above ours?
Even if we, or other teams run a 3 WR set often, the third target isn't usually moving the needle.
We also have pretty capable pass catching TEs.
I like our WR group, and I just don't think adding "a better" 3rd WR is the best way to improve this team.