The Taboo Elephant in the Room [Mayo was a bad coach]

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

He wasn’t fired for 4-12. He was fired because he was entirely incompetent.
Schemes were horrible.
Team culture was horrible
Players attitudes sucked
His communication was awful
He played the wrong players
He cut the wrong players
He didn’t adjust
He built a team with a losing mentality and blamed the players.

Mayo probably is the best choice.
He knows nothing but the Patriot way. All of the processes, systems and culture BB has embedded in the franchise can stay in place. He knows as much about a BB defense as anyone so should be able to continue some level of its success.
We are likely in for a long run of being on the outside looking in, so might as well give the good soldier a shot.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I thought any elephant in the room was by definition defined as "taboo". I thought that was the reason for having an eleohant in the room - to do taboo sh!t. What is a taboo elephant?

 

[VrabelJr]

I don't know. The arrival of Will Campbell, Morgan Moses, and Jared Wilson has drastically altered the offensive line compared to last year, so I would say that had Mayo had them, he would have been more successful.

However, to your point, Vrabel - in my opinion - will finish this season significantly better than Mayo would have with this same roster. At the same time, a lot of that has to do with his experience as a coach and knowing how to manage a roster and a staff. Mayo's biggest issue was ultimately his not being able to control keeping his thoughts to himself.

If you watch Vrabel, there are many times during a press conference where he'll stop and think about something before he says it, and that was the thing that really buried Mayo last year. But I also think Mayo and DeMarcus Covington were out of their depth on defense, and those two were outcoached last year more times than I can count.

Still, people probably could have lived with the record had it not been for a lot of the things he slipped up and said, where he painted himself into a corner and gave the radio too much to talk about, which they obviously listened to. And by the end, people were done with him, and based on the reports after the season, so were the players. There was also consistent regression, which I think had to do with player trust and morale, which is something Vrabel clearly understands.

I think more of Mayo's issues were less football-related in terms of why he was fired. But the difference in experience on this staff is also significantly different from a year ago. Maybe if he had a more experienced staff like Vrabel, a couple of those guys (McDaniels, Marrone, etc.) might have been able to save him from himself so he could mature and move past it, but the point is sort of moot now, anyway.

Guy was a good player, and it's unfortunate it worked out the way it did. I certainly wish him the best.

Mayo's press conferences aren't what buried him. It was the results on the field and the absolute circus during games on the sidelines. He had no idea how to organize a team.

 

[Ian]

Mayo's press conferences aren't what buried him. It was the results on the field and the absolute circus during games on the sidelines. He had no idea how to organize a team.

I do feel like it played a significant role, but essentially for the reasons you mentioned. Those comments then got back to the media, which then got back to the players, which created a lot of distrust and issues in the locker room. But then, like you said, add in his inexperience and inability to adjust in-game, and he lost the only way he might have been able to get some credibility back. Then, to your point, he put everything on everyone else and didn't really shoulder anything or provide any solutions other than a general overview of what he believed the problems were.

You can't talk badly about the people under you and then not provide any solutions or ways to get better, especially without actively being involved. If he had kept all of that in-house and not created that environment, maybe he would have had more time because the outside perception might have been different. Instead, it became a running joke, especially when the team got worse as the year went on.

By all accounts, he lost the locker room, and that's one of the biggest reasons coaches get fired in this league. I do feel inexperience was obviously part of it, which, as you mentioned, was a big factor. But it didn't help when he also became his own worst enemy.

 

[Ring 6]

All the reasons I gave for my half hearted acceptance of the hire turned out to be just what he wasn’t.

Perhaps you can check some of my comments after his press conference, after his coaching hires, after we saw how he coached if you are that interested in what I thought.

 

[zydecochris]

Mayo was not ready to be an NFL head coach.

On the other hand I wish him well wherever he goes.

Of course he wasn’t ready to be a head coach! He was an excellent, smart player, but that doesn’t make him ready to be a NFL head coach, he was in his 30’s, had never coached in college, and had never served as either an NFL OC or DC. I have absolutely no idea why Kraft thought Mayo was qualified to be the HC of the Pats, it was really a failure of Kraft more than anybody.

In contrast, Vrabel coached at Ohio St for 3 years, then was DC with the Texans, then HC for 7 years with the Titans, winning NFL Coach of the Year once. There simply is no comparison in experience and proven excellence.

Heck, many Browns fans said that BB was in over his head when he took over the Browns, but he had been a DC with the Giants for 5 years, had two rings, and had conceived one of the most brilliant defensive Super Bowl game-plans ever (currently displayed in the NFL Hall of Fame) against the Bills.

Again, I have no idea what Kraft was thinking.

As you said, let’s wish Mayo well, he is still a youngster, hopefully with more experience he will find a rewarding career.

 

[Triumph]

1. Mayo was hired because Robert Kraft was up for the NFL HOF. Look at the timing of Mayo's hire for evidence. Robert Kraft then promoted a Woman from his company over to his NFL team the Patriots. Robin Glaser had no NFL experience, but it never is a bad move to hedge your HOF voting bets.

2. Mayo was a low level NFL assistant coach. He bypassed DC and went straight to HC. Of course Mayo wasn't qualified. I seriously doubt that Mayo did not bring up the fact that it may take time to learn the ropes of NFL HC.

3. Mayo said that he would be a better HC next season. Why would Mayo publicly announce that without the full support of Bob Kraft?

4. Bob Kraft tried to pull the smear campaign on Mayo that Belichick received. The Mayo's threatened to blow the lid off the whole hire and embarrass the Kraft's. Since the Mayo's threat, you have not heard a peep out of the Kraft's. The bad man Mayo stories have dried up.

5. I will not fault Mayo. He did the best that he could under the circumstances.

 

[Vindicate]

It’s a very difficult job. Imagine having a job where everything you want to do there is a competitor trying to stop you.
On top of that it’s not an even match. (Many college coaches are good because they can recruit a better team, when you remove that things can change)
As with any job that is competitive and has goals, it’s not the resume it’s the guy.
McVay was hired very young. He has the skillset and makeup to be a HC.
Romeo Crennell was old and experienced, far more experienced than McVay but he didn’t have the makeup and skillset to be a HC.
You have to find the right guy (there aren’t many of them) when you can find them regardless of what’s on the resume

Same with McDaniels. Prime example. Guy is an accomplished OC, but lacks all of the personality of an HC. It's hard to even imagine him being the big man in charge, it just doesn't really compute to me. He doesn't have that presence. Bill O'Brien, on the other hand, does. Sometimes it really just boils down to a personality/presence thing.

 

[Ring 6]

Same with McDaniels. Prime example. Guy is an accomplished OC, but lacks all of the personality of an HC. It's hard to even imagine him being the big man in charge, it just doesn't really compute to me. He doesn't have that presence. Bill O'Brien, on the other hand, does. Sometimes it really just boils down to a personality/presence thing.

Yes some people are innate leaders. Others just aren’t.
It’s different running one side of the ball, winning over your players by being the smartest x and o guy, than being the guy who charts the direction of the entire team.

 

[TheRainMaker]

You had to wait until the first preseason game and the flash cards? Adding Robin Glazer to the football operations management team early on didn't tip you off way before the 1st preseason game?

For me no. I made it clear the day he was hired I thought he wasn't qualified and never liked him on the staff prior to. Come to find out, BB didn't like him as his successor as well.

 

[Bill Lee]

I don't know. The arrival of Will Campbell, Morgan Moses, and Jared Wilson has drastically altered the offensive line compared to last year, so I would say that had Mayo had them, he would have been more successful.

The arrival of Doug Marrone has a lot to do with that, IMO. So long, Scott Peters, we hardly knew ya. Guess what he's doing now? OL coach for the Bengals, the same OL that got Joe Burrow onto the injured reserve list.

 

[Bill Lee]

It's kind of interesting for us to be dogging Mayo on the day that the Titans fired Vrabel's successor since a lot of their fan base had a pretty low opinion on Vrabel after he took them to the playoffs three years in a row and we are all finding him to be a big step up from his predecessor.

The AI machine coughed up a lot of the common criticisms of Vrabel. Will he run into the same pitfalls here?



IDK, seems like hiring Josh and a few other coaches took away a lot of these criticisms. We're pretty happy with how our young talent is developing.

 

[Hawaiipatsfan2]

The only way Mayo got "screwed" is by putting him in a position he wasn't capable of handling and didn't earn in the first place.

I would have wished him well as well, then he won that came in week 18 just to spite the franchise. He will forever be a POS IMO and I don’t even care to talk about his playing career anymore. He’ll always be remembered for the loser he is from now on. We might have one or two more 1st round picks right now if not for that. You know how much that would help this team.

 

[lancerman]

All the reasons I gave for my half hearted acceptance of the hire turned out to be just what he wasn’t.

Perhaps you can check some of my comments after his press conference, after his coaching hires, after we saw how he coached if you are that interested in what I thought.

Tbf you might have been right. The old “Patriot Way” stopped working towards the end and Mayo in many respects was just a continuation of the bottom falling out we saw in 2023 plus being an idiot in press conferences.

We needed a change and new approach, not continuity with something that was outdated.

My biggest issue with Mayo was that it was dumb to try to have Belichick’s system when you decided that Belichick needed to be fired because his way stopped being effective. I wanted to give him a chance and to an extent I didn’t think any coach was overcoming the roster on the team. But there was zero buy in and that was the minimum.

Vrabel despite coming from the old guard really isn’t beholden to it and wanted a clean break. Which softened my biggest concern with his hire.

 

[Hawaiipatsfan2]

Poor Mayo nobody likes him. Somehow people now remember as a worse linebacker than he was too.

His career from a franchise achievements aspect was overrated. We didn’t win a title with him. The year he got his ring he was washed and didn’t even play in the Super Bowl. When I think of the players from our 20 year run, I almost never think of mayo.

 

[Ian]

The arrival of Doug Marrone has a lot to do with that, IMO. So long, Scott Peters, we hardly knew ya. Guess what he's doing now? OL coach for the Bengals, the same OL that got Joe Burrow onto the injured reserve list.

I do agree with @VrabelJr though...they were a mess behind the scenes. I figured there would be continuity and that would be a good thing, and it certainly felt like that after the first game. I guess we all underestimated Stephen Belichick as a coordinator. He did a good job and was a bigger loss than most of us expected, and it definitely showed that Covington wasn't ready for the job.

 

[patchick]

I think the only thing "political" about this topic is the OP declaring it to be so.

I can hardly imagine a LESS controversial statement for this board than "Mayo was woefully unprepared to be a head coach and Vrabel is a massive upgrade."

 

[signbabybrady]

His career from a franchise achievements aspect was overrated. We didn’t win a title with him. The year he got his ring he was washed and didn’t even play in the Super Bowl. When I think of the players from our 20 year run, I almost never think of mayo.

Pavlov's dog lol

 

[TommyD4207]

It's kind of interesting for us to be dogging Mayo on the day that the Titans fired Vrabel's successor since a lot of their fan base had a pretty low opinion on Vrabel after he took them to the playoffs three years in a row and we are all finding him to be a big step up from his predecessor.

The AI machine coughed up a lot of the common criticisms of Vrabel. Will he run into the same pitfalls here?



IDK, seems like hiring Josh and a few other coaches took away a lot of these criticisms. We're pretty happy with how our young talent is developing.

"Old-school Philosophy" is a Cult of Verticality staple.

It means he's not chucking it deep 60 times a game, and managing the game.

That 'conservative game management' won us the last two, you can almost attribute it directly to that.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

1. Mayo was hired because Robert Kraft was up for the NFL HOF. Look at the timing of Mayo's hire for evidence. Robert Kraft then promoted a Woman from his company over to his NFL team the Patriots. Robin Glaser had no NFL experience, but it never is a bad move to hedge your HOF voting bets.

2. Mayo was a low level NFL assistant coach. He bypassed DC and went straight to HC. Of course Mayo wasn't qualified. I seriously doubt that Mayo did not bring up the fact that it may take time to learn the ropes of NFL HC.

3. Mayo said that he would be a better HC next season. Why would Mayo publicly announce that without the full support of Bob Kraft?

4. Bob Kraft tried to pull the smear campaign on Mayo that Belichick received. The Mayo's threatened to blow the lid off the whole hire and embarrass the Kraft's. Since the Mayo's threat, you have not heard a peep out of the Kraft's. The bad man Mayo stories have dried up.

5. I will not fault Mayo. He did the best that he could under the circumstances.

This Felger-esque nonsense is ridiculous. It's complete and total garbage. You just made up a racist and sexist narrative about thing with no evidence. "Timing" of his hire is not evidence - you're a clown for suggesting that.

The thing about people who spout off racist and sexist narratives is that it usually says all you need to know about thier character... so that's something you need to reconcile with.

Mayo has a history in the organization. He was buddy-buddy with Kraft and Kraft was convinced he'd be a good head coach. Mayo had some opportunities to leave while Kraft saw the writing on the wall with BB and leveraged that into a "coach in waiting role". Glaser has long worked with the Krafts in a variety of roles. Belichick got himself fired for poor performance which opened up promotions/new roles for both, that Kraft felt they were ready for based on his time with them. Mayo's year as head coach and whatever Glaser was going proved that they weren't cut out for the jobs, or at least not now for sure. So Kraft fired them. That's what happened. Whatever racist/sexist bull **** you want to layer into that is a reflection of your own character and how you see the world.