The Taboo Elephant in the Room [Mayo was a bad coach]

[The Gr8est]

I don't blame Mayo for what happened. He was put in a terrible situation. The only critique I had of Mayo was that he didn't learn from his mistakes, he kept repeating them.

If you look at where the Patriots were last year most people acted like we were in year 5 of a rebuild, but in actuality we were really in year 1 of the second rebuild. We had Maye as a rookie but we didn't have an O-Line to protect him like we do now. I don't care if you're Jerod Mayo or Curly Lambeau you're not gonna succeed with that.

He was put in a terrible position?

He didn’t ask for the job he was unqualified for?

 

[mayoclinic]

Wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[signbabybrady]

Poor Mayo nobody likes him. Somehow people now remember as a worse linebacker than he was too.

 

[TheRainMaker]

How easily some ignore how much money was spent on the roster this offseason.

Diggs concurs

They did spend a lot of money last off-season as well. It went unnoticed because it was on their own players and the team didn't improve at all. This year was actually brining in players from other teams like Diggs, Williams to team up with Barmore, Spillane, Davis and Moses. Then you have Campbell at LT.

 

[rogerthat]

I didn't even like Mayo as a player, never mind a coach.

On top of that, he couldn't handle the media which is an absolute must in this town.

 

[palialka]

Mayo was completely in over his head. Who goes from being a defensive assistant/LB coach to becoming HC with ZERO previous experience as a HC or coordinator???

Kraft lost his damn mind trying to be “buddy buddy” while also showing he could “check” the diversity box.

Hindsight is 20/20, but Kraft should’ve hired Vrabel from the get go and maybe Mayo could’ve been promoted to DC as natural progression step. That would’ve made much more sense at the time.

Thank god Kraft realized his error and fixed it quickly.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

He was put in a terrible position?

He didn’t ask for the job he was unqualified for?

Right, and I am sure our patient and reasonable fan base will bend over backwards to tolerate the inevitable growing pains that are possible to happen with a new and unproven HC.

 

[BTTA]

The only way Mayo got "screwed" is by putting him in a position he wasn't capable of handling and didn't earn in the first place.

Agree, although "earn" isn't relevant for pro coaching decisions. A lot of them are made on an irrational hope that the guy is the next hot thing. This is especially true for guys making the leap from college, or who have been assistants where a unit has done really well. Owners want to hit the jackpot. "Earn" isn't a criteria.

 

[ErniesPinkStripes]

Agree, although "earn" isn't relevant for pro coaching decisions. A lot of them are made on an irrational hope that the guy is the next hot thing. This is especially true for guys making the leap from college, or who have been assistants where a unit has done really well. Owners want to hit the jackpot. "Earn" isn't a criteria.

Eh perhaps to a degree, but I think there is a theme of "making your bones" before getting the HC gig and it seems as though Mayo might have become case subject #1 why that's still relevant, important and very much apart of the coaching world - even if some owners are impatient and make poor personnel choices, like ours did.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't blame Mayo for what happened. He was put in a terrible situation. The only critique I had of Mayo was that he didn't learn from his mistakes, he kept repeating them.

If you look at where the Patriots were last year most people acted like we were in year 5 of a rebuild, but in actuality we were really in year 1 of the second rebuild. We had Maye as a rookie but we didn't have an O-Line to protect him like we do now. I don't care if you're Jerod Mayo or Curly Lambeau you're not gonna succeed with that.

He wasn’t fired for 4-12. He was fired because he was entirely incompetent.
Schemes were horrible.
Team culture was horrible
Players attitudes sucked
His communication was awful
He played the wrong players
He cut the wrong players
He didn’t adjust
He built a team with a losing mentality and blamed the players.

 

[Ring 6]

Agree, although "earn" isn't relevant for pro coaching decisions. A lot of them are made on an irrational hope that the guy is the next hot thing. This is especially true for guys making the leap from college, or who have been assistants where a unit has done really well. Owners want to hit the jackpot. "Earn" isn't a criteria.

It’s a very difficult job. Imagine having a job where everything you want to do there is a competitor trying to stop you.
On top of that it’s not an even match. (Many college coaches are good because they can recruit a better team, when you remove that things can change)
As with any job that is competitive and has goals, it’s not the resume it’s the guy.
McVay was hired very young. He has the skillset and makeup to be a HC.
Romeo Crennell was old and experienced, far more experienced than McVay but he didn’t have the makeup and skillset to be a HC.
You have to find the right guy (there aren’t many of them) when you can find them regardless of what’s on the resume

 

[Ian]

I have avoided this topic because it’s water under the bridge AND oddly politically charged BUT:

Entering week 7 I feel we now have enough objective AND subjective data to put a nail in the “it wasn’t Mayo’s fault, he got screwed” narrative.

He was possibly WORSE than we thought.

Vrabel has already matched the win total of Mayo’s career 6 games in.

And more damningly, it’s the WAY they’ve done it.

But for one player getting the yips vs Pitt (Mondre), the team on the field is light years ahead of last year, coaching is night and day, hope is restored.

Kraft made one of the absolute worst hiring decisions in NFL history…but has followed it up with a very good one.

I don't know. The arrival of Will Campbell, Morgan Moses, and Jared Wilson has drastically altered the offensive line compared to last year, so I would say that had Mayo had them, he would have been more successful.

However, to your point, Vrabel - in my opinion - will finish this season significantly better than Mayo would have with this same roster. At the same time, a lot of that has to do with his experience as a coach and knowing how to manage a roster and a staff. Mayo's biggest issue was ultimately his not being able to control keeping his thoughts to himself.

If you watch Vrabel, there are many times during a press conference where he'll stop and think about something before he says it, and that was the thing that really buried Mayo last year. But I also think Mayo and DeMarcus Covington were out of their depth on defense, and those two were outcoached last year more times than I can count.

Still, people probably could have lived with the record had it not been for a lot of the things he slipped up and said, where he painted himself into a corner and gave the radio too much to talk about, which they obviously listened to. And by the end, people were done with him, and based on the reports after the season, so were the players. There was also consistent regression, which I think had to do with player trust and morale, which is something Vrabel clearly understands.

I think more of Mayo's issues were less football-related in terms of why he was fired. But the difference in experience on this staff is also significantly different from a year ago. Maybe if he had a more experienced staff like Vrabel, a couple of those guys (McDaniels, Marrone, etc.) might have been able to save him from himself so he could mature and move past it, but the point is sort of moot now, anyway.

Guy was a good player, and it's unfortunate it worked out the way it did. I certainly wish him the best.

 

[Mike the Brit]

1. Eliot Wolf has no talents other than sucking up to those in power and it is a scandal that he has a job.

2. You'd have hoped that Bill Belichick would have seen what was obvious -- that it was time to quit -- and withdrawn with grace and dignity. Instead he took a dump on the floor on his way out, creating a conflict of loyalties between himself and the organization for the coaching staff.

3. Mayo had no experience outside the Patriots so he had no network of coaching contacts. Instead, he allowed Eliot Wolf (see (1) above) to bring in his own, patently unqualified, coaches to run the offense.

4. The players wanted to play for Mayo and he saw, rightly, that the culture of Foxboro had to change.

Unfortunately:

5. For whatever reason, a lot of people did not want Mayo to succeed and so, while he was learning on the job, every minor misstep was fastened on as a sign that he was inept.

6. The roster was just dreadful (see (1) above). There were no fewer than 14 different offensive line starters in a single season, of whom, if I remember correctly, only Mike Onwenu survives as a starter (Wallace, Brown and Lowe are still on the roster -- although with how much justification in comparison with the Andrews Sisters and Cole Strange, I don't know).

However:

7. The defense was also awful. That was supposed to have been Mayo's area of expertise. It is true that only one 6th-round pick was used on defense in the draft and only 5 of the 17 free agent signings were on defense. In fact, the defense's best player (Judon) was traded away. (See (1) above.) Nevertheless, the defense should have been Mayo's responsibility and strength. By any standards it was a failure.

8. In short, Mayo was clearly out of his depth and surrounded by incompetents.

The contrast between his flailing around and Vrabel's confidence and authority is night and day. What is more, just because Vrabel is so knowledgeable and confident, he doesn't have to bully or demean his players. Quite the opposite. Vrabel has described how he turned down the offer to come and be part of Belichick's coaching staff. It was obviously the right decision. Mayo is the latest in a long line of those who worked for the Greatest Coach of All Time but whom he failed to develop to be successful independent leaders.

Firing Mayo when they did may prove to be a kindness to him. I hope so. He is a decent, intelligent man who deserved better.

And, in case it wasn't clear: Wolf has no business whatsoever being part of the Patriots' organization.

 

[TommyD4207]

Well... other than Mrs Mayo ofc.

Of course.

Reminds me...how's that wrongful termination lawsuit going?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

In fact, I'm surprised many here didn't see the massive red flag with Mayo the first pre-season game when the coaches were holding massive flash cards on the sidelines to show the players when they were on the field.

You had to wait until the first preseason game and the flash cards? Adding Robin Glazer to the football operations management team early on didn't tip you off way before the 1st preseason game?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

1. Eliot Wolf has no talents other than sucking up to those in power and it is a scandal that he has a job.

I nominate Mike the Brit for President of the USA!!

 

[Joey007]

While I agree with the notion that Mayo was the wrong guy for the job, and Vrabel is the right guy:

Keep in mind we did little to nothing the offseason after hiring Mayo, and had horrible draft, sans Maye. We didn’t even try.

We made aggressive moves to bolster the roster this offseason, and supplemented it with a productive draft. The exact wins/losses aren’t entirely fair to compare, coach to coach.

 

[VrabelJr]

Mayo was not ready to be an NFL head coach.

On the other hand I wish him well wherever he goes.

He's going nowhere. NFL front offices know he's a backstabber.

 

[VrabelJr]

While I agree with the notion that Mayo was the wrong guy for the job, and Vrabel is the right guy:

Keep in mind we did little to nothing the offseason after hiring Mayo, and had horrible draft, sans Maye. We didn’t even try.

We made aggressive moves to bolster the roster this offseason, and supplemented it with a productive draft. The exact wins/losses aren’t entirely fair to compare, coach to coach.

How do you untangle that we didn't make offseason moves with the fact that FAs flat out didn't want to play for Mayo? It's all interrelated.

 

[VrabelJr]

Meta post: I'll gladly take one thread to dunk on Mayo over the thousands of threads that turn into dunking on BB.