With Gibson out for the year

[mgteich]

He had more punt returns in college than Edelman........

Do you truly not know the difference between a punt returner and a kick returner?

BTW, Edelman returned fewer than 3 kicks per SEASON and no more than 3 only in his 1st and 3rd season.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Do you truly not know the difference between a punt returner and a kick returner?

BTW, Edelman returned fewer than 3 kicks per SEASON and no more than 3 only in his 1st and 3rd season.

Yes and sometimes, a player can do both as Marcus Jones did his rookie year with 27 KR and 29 PR. (I'm aware he did both in college) I'd rather have Chism or someone else back there than risk Rham getting hurt when you're already down 1 RB out for the year.

 

[Ring 6]

17 games of 75 percent snaps at DB is worth more than a few KRs. What if they put him out there and he does in his knee. Reserve him for the most important snaps.

By that argument he shouldn’t be returning punts.
Also by that argument we should only put guys who suck on special teams.
Special teams plays matter just as much as offense and defense, there just aren’t as many of them.

 

[Ring 6]

Do you truly not know the difference between a punt returner and a kick returner?

BTW, Edelman returned fewer than 3 kicks per SEASON and no more than 3 only in his 1st and 3rd season.

Nobody has experience returning kicks the way it is done now.
Edelman didn’t return kick offs when kickoffs were an entirely different play than they are now.
Perhaps he would have if there were these rules in effect. Kickoffs now might be closer to punts that the old kickoff rules.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

know that you can only have 2 guys back in the landing zone; but how much can they move around.

I was hearing that they were deliberately kicking away from Henderson.
So if H lined up on Right side and then shifted at last minute to Left;....that could at least mess up the kicker or possibly both kicker & coverage teams if kicker then kicks to where Henderson isnt and the coverage guys all think it going the other way. And maybe it gets the ball in Henderson's hands for a good return.

IS THAT LEGAL (the movement)?

I believe so.

From NFL site:

• All players in the setup zone cannot move until the kick has hit the ground or a player in the landing zone or the end zone

So I think the returners can do as they please as long as they stay back of the setup zone (the five-yard area between the receiving team's 35- and 30-yard lines, where at least nine players from the receiving team must line up). So the two returners could even start out near the middle of the field and quickly swap positions after the kick (as long as they can still get to the boundary before a kick arrives). Does make their jobs more difficult though, particularly as you now have the squib kicks, so I suspect it wouldn't be a good idea.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, let's put worse players on the field because you're afraid of them getting hurt.
Always a genius take.

Bingo

 

[Mack Herron]

The running game that has been struggling just lost its best RB. The coaches have done a great job with pass protection but I wonder if it has been at the expense of run blocking. The OL appeared on paper to be better run blockers than pass blockers (except at center), but that has not been the case to date. Trades are uncommon but a quality RB is a need.

 

[n1997y]

I was hearing that they were deliberately kicking away from Henderson.

I noticed that kicks were being directed well away from Henderson. It was the game Gibson took one to the house, maybe it was the Panthers game? I liked seeing that as a way to counter that strategy.

Personally I’d like to see Chism back there opposite Henderson. I think he’d have the potential to break one on any given KO too.

 

[rochrist]

By that argument he shouldn’t be returning punts.
Also by that argument we should only put guys who suck on special teams.
Special teams plays matter just as much as offense and defense, there just aren’t as many of them.

Sure, you can carry it to an extreme. But when you're talking about a small guy with an injury history who is extremely important to the defense, I think it bears closer examination. You can stick a lot of guys back there for kickoffs as long as they can field and hold onto the ball and the worsst that happens is you don't break a huge kick return which might happen 3-4 times in a season. He gets hurt, and your backend is in trouble.

 

[goheels22002]

Jashaun Corbin is a pretty good back out of FSU and Texas A&M. He can return kicks, catch passes (6'0" tall) and was good in the ACC and in a stint in the USFL. He's bounced around NFL camps, so this could be his biggest opportunity to prove he belongs at this level. Not a bad move to bring him in.

Are there any solid veterans looking to get on a roster? I was looking around and couldn't figure out who the street free agents are that are healthy enough to help out. Given Henderson's struggles to block and Stephenson's fumbling, a veteran could be helpful right now.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure, you can carry it to an extreme. But when you're talking about a small guy with an injury history who is extremely important to the defense, I think it bears closer examination. You can stick a lot of guys back there for kickoffs as long as they can field and hold onto the ball and the worsst that happens is you don't break a huge kick return which might happen 3-4 times in a season. He gets hurt, and your backend is in trouble.

But again this argument is player bad players so the good ones don’t get hurt. Special teams plays are just as important as offense and defense.
It sounds like you want him off of punt return too.

I also don’t think putting your best special teams players on the field to create big plays is carrying it to an extreme, it should be the norm.

 

[TommyD4207]

Sure, you can carry it to an extreme. But when you're talking about a small guy with an injury history who is extremely important to the defense, I think it bears closer examination. You can stick a lot of guys back there for kickoffs as long as they can field and hold onto the ball and the worsst that happens is you don't break a huge kick return which might happen 3-4 times in a season. He gets hurt, and your backend is in trouble.

Marcus Jones already pretty much won 1 game this year returning punts. Those 3-4 times a season could mean the difference between a win or a loss.

 

[Vindicate]

Yes, let's put worse players on the field because you're afraid of them getting hurt.
Always a genius take.

You do realize good teams manage snap counts game over game for their players to avoid injuries, right?

 

[Kdo5]

The running game that has been struggling just lost its best RB. The coaches have done a great job with pass protection but I wonder if it has been at the expense of run blocking. The OL appeared on paper to be better run blockers than pass blockers (except at center), but that has not been the case to date. Trades are uncommon but a quality RB is a need.

I just need a RB who holds onto the ball. A Benjarvus Green-Ellis type. Otherwise I think the run blocking is a more complicated issue to solve.

 

[TommyD4207]

You do realize good teams manage snap counts game over game for their players to avoid injuries, right?

I do.
I also know that putting worse players because you're *afraid* of players getting hurt is how coaches get fired, and teams lose football games.

In the 'Marcus Jones shouldn't even return punts' camp, Steph Diggs would have been on IR to start the season. Instead he won us a football game last week. They managed his snaps, but when they needed him, he was out there, because he's the best player they have at the position.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think I've made it perfectly clear the more Marcus the better.

So just playing a little devils advocate here:

What if the reason has nothing to do with injury risk or KR skill but rather lead blocking skills?

Since 2 guys have to be back there and since teams would probably kick away from Marcus he'd need to be a really good lead blocker for Henderson or it could become a bigger problem than having someone who they think can do both.

 

[mgteich]

I do.
I also know that putting worse players because you're *afraid* of players getting hurt is how coaches get fired, and teams lose football games.

In the 'Marcus Jones shouldn't even return punts' camp, Steph Diggs would have been on IR to start the season. Instead he won us a football game last week. They managed his snaps, but when they needed him, he was out there, because he's the best player they have at the position.

Consider GONZO and DIGGS
Both were injured enough to consider putting them on IR to start the year.

For both, the team decided to make game by game decisions, of course frustrating fans. In BOTH cases, the team limited the players. Gonzo could have come back earlier. Diggs could have gotten more reps earlier (he is still being restricted).

GONZO
The team keep him OUT after he was ready to play, perhaps on a limited basis for a game of two. And Austin played. Perhaps, we should have taken the risk and played Gonzo earlier. Vrabel disagreed.

DIGGS
The team has clearly managed his reps from the first game onward. Some would want him to have many more reps than Boutte and Henry. Vrable disagrees.
========
The BOTTOM LINE is that Vrabel has restricted how much these players played.
==========
THE OL
No, Vrabel doesn't limit reps because a player is OLD. Many wanted Bradbury and Moses to be part-time players because they were old. Vrabel disagreed. Wilson missed a game with an injury. Other than that, every player has played 100% of the reps in every game. Working together s important.

 

[rochrist]

But again this argument is player bad players so the good ones don’t get hurt. Special teams plays are just as important as offense and defense.
It sounds like you want him off of punt return too.

I also don’t think putting your best special teams players on the field to create big plays is carrying it to an extreme, it should be the norm.

No, I don't want him off PR, I don't even necessarily want him off KR, I'm just playing devil's advocate. But also, just because you don't play Jones at KR doesn't automatially mean you put a bad player there. There's an argument to be made to at least TRY some other guys who may be decent at it and who won't completely devestate the backend of the D if they get knocked out of the game.

 

[Ring 6]

You do realize good teams manage snap counts game over game for their players to avoid injuries, right?

That’s not really accurate. Teams manage snap counts to keep players from being over worked. Not to avoid injuries. They pull players out of lopsided games to prevent injuries.