Patriots Pregame Thread Week 5: Pats @ Buffalo

[hornetfb85]

Fun Fact: I know he’s been on the Pats practice squad for only a week, but I was Royce Newmans position coach in high school. He was awesome at the backside shoe shine block at TE.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

 

[KCSVEN]

You have somewhat of a biased take if the QB is not named Drake Maye. What if Bo Nix turns out to be the next Drew Brees?? Your criticism about Jayden Daniels go right over my head: some guys just end up in the right situations: lucky them. Ps Penix Jr had a 298 and 300yds game sandwiched between a couple of so so games: I thought he wasn't an NFL QB according to you.

Not biased, just looking at tape.

Nix just isn't good, Drew Brees was good so if Nix becomes the next Brees he would be the first ever to accomplish that type of growth. Impossible? No, but wouldn't wager on it.

Penix was bad vs Panthers. Atrocious. He is really good at throwing the 10 yard outs, his arm strength is impressive, he has some mobility. He has a more of a chance then Nix but an 82.7 rating is not a NFL starting QB, yet. I hope he can build on the last game. He still throws some bad balls but he throws some ropes you can't teach.

I said before the draft Daniels "will be the best rookie QB and expect a really good first year.". I also watched Daniels have 5 bad drives in the Eagles game last year and get praise for a great game because they won. YES, he made some big-time throws especially late. But he also showed he's not a consistently great passer so needs to have his running ability. Yet he's not built like Josh Allen so injuries are likely. Once he runs less to protect himself, he's going to be easier to defend.

Can Penix overcome the fact he's an older draftee with injury history? Sure, he has arm talent and proper build. He checks a lot of boxes but poor consistent accuracy and slow processing are hard to fix. We shall see. 60% completion rate in NFL with London, Pitts and Robinson is hard to fathom.
I do like he bounced back from his worst game of his career to play his best game.
I actually root for these guys because it is fun to watch great QB play. Once they are really good and fun to watch I'll admit my analysis ended up being wrong
Watching Allen tape has been great going into this game. The 20-yard outs on a dime are something. His arm strength is ridiculous.

 

[patfanken]

By that theory Trent Dilfer was the best QB in 2000.
Denver would trade Nix and a #1 for Drake Maye. 100%, No doubt.

Nix has the BEST setup in the NFL to succeed and he's not looking great, can't throw past 5 yards accurately. He's at the bottom of all the advanced metrics despite having the most time to throw and the least pressures. He s not decent, he is bad, by every measurable metric.

Daniel's issue is his size, and he needs to run because he's not a great passer. He's already been hurt twice. He's not a great pocket passer but is in a great scheme that makes it easier for him. In 2024 he had a knack for making big plays even though he was inconsistent with accuracy.

What Nix and Daniels have are excellent OC's with schemes that really help a QB throw to open receivers. Marcus Mariota has played better than Daniels this year. MARCUS MARIOTA!

There are QB's you can win with, and there are QB's that will win for you.
As Brady said, the OC situation is so important, put a good QB with the 32nd rank OC and he'll look bad, put the worst QB with the best OC and he'll look adequate assuming players around him are good.

I'm just using the same un-nuanced arguments to state the obvious cases people use to hammer players. I always felt Jones was good enough to be a starting NFL QB while he was here. He was just put in a just HORRIBLE situation for any QB in 22, and 23 and after that he would have NEVER succeeded here and had to leave. And it wasn't that he was so good that he left here and was an immediate success. He failed pretty badly in his home town too.

There are 2 kinds of quality QB's. One is the kind that can execute the right game plan. Keep you out of mistakes and lead an offense. There is another who can do all that plus AND (on occasion) has the physical ability to carry a team on his back as we've seen Allen do once and a while.

At this point we have seen that Maye has show INDICATIONS he might be in the latter category. But right now it is just a indication he could be that guy. Whether he is or not will ONLY show up after years of game experience both in the playoffs and regular season.

People forget just how inconsistent Allen was his first few years and was still struggling to get out of the certified bust category long after where Maye is on his 17 game start career. Think about where Mack would have been if Josh had decided to stay in NE and just be a career OC. What would have his career path had been. A WHOLE lot different, I imagine.

I could help but be wonder about "what if" when they showed a shot of a picture of Panthers camp when they had BOTH Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnell. Instead they get rid of both, pay a HUGE sum to move up in the draft to get a 5'10 kid who has given them moments of hope, but also moments of despair, while TWO guys they gave away for nothing are thriving.

I think about the UNMITIGATED crap Mac got here over those last 2 years from Pats fans and I can't bad for a second of any crap he wants to dole back here to us as a fan base or organization for that. He's not blameless for some of it, I understand, but as fans (everybody's fans) tend to typecast players at a moment in time and never allow for the potential of growth and change over time.

Kendrick Bourne is another guy. He's another guy who probably is in the right place for both teams right now. He was never a "bad" WR. Just one who wasn't available enough. It wouldn't have been good for him to be here. Who would we have kept instead. I was a big fan of his and that first 800yd season, but at this stage of our team's development, I'd rather have Boutte than Bourne, even with his 143 yd game.

 

[Ross12]

I've seen this play many, many times. It works less than it doesn't.
That said, we used lots of misdirection last week and it worked well.
The play you mention can work equally as well with Williams running the fake sweep. Buff's D isn't going to pay more attention or assign more people because it's Jones over Williams.
My opinion.

Disagree, I think they’d key on Jones a lot harder right now.

 

[jimnance]

When you look back on it. Nix is being described by many, including jimmance, much liked they talked about Brady for the first decade plus of his career. A decent QB on a great team. It REALLY used to piss us off.

If the object of the game is to see who WINS, then Denver and Washington are the big winners, and as far as "draft value" go Denver wins by a mile

Ken please don't compare Nix to Brady in any way shape or form. I knew Brady was a stud his rookie year. Nix has 0 pocket presence unlike Brady did even as a rookie. He has a very mediocre arm.
I see him as a slightly better version of Tim Tebow. Hes not gonna put a team on his back the way Brady already could in 2003.
Nix wasn't worth a 1st round pick imo.

 

[sb1]

He - what now?

 

[jimnance]

Not biased, just looking at tape.

Nix just isn't good, Drew Brees was good so if Nix becomes the next Brees he would be the first ever to accomplish that type of growth. Impossible? No, but wouldn't wager on it.

Penix was bad vs Panthers. Atrocious. He is really good at throwing the 10 yard outs, his arm strength is impressive, he has some mobility. He has a more of a chance then Nix but an 82.7 rating is not a NFL starting QB, yet. I hope he can build on the last game. He still throws some bad balls but he throws some ropes you can't teach.

I said before the draft Daniels "will be the best rookie QB and expect a really good first year.". I also watched Daniels have 5 bad drives in the Eagles game last year and get praise for a great game because they won. YES, he made some big-time throws especially late. But he also showed he's not a consistently great passer so needs to have his running ability. Yet he's not built like Josh Allen so injuries are likely. Once he runs less to protect himself, he's going to be easier to defend.

Can Penix overcome the fact he's an older draftee with injury history? Sure, he has arm talent and proper build. He checks a lot of boxes but poor consistent accuracy and slow processing are hard to fix. We shall see. 60% completion rate in NFL with London, Pitts and Robinson is hard to fathom.
I do like he bounced back from his worst game of his career to play his best game.
I actually root for these guys because it is fun to watch great QB play. Once they are really good and fun to watch I'll admit my analysis ended up being wrong
Watching Allen tape has been great going into this game. The 20-yard outs on a dime are something. His arm strength is ridiculous.

That's a pretty fair assessment. Like you I have never understood how some folks think Nix will ever be a really good qb.
And I go back to college watching numerous of his games. Not good. I saw a lit of Pac10 games that year and Penix was tge best qb in that league that year.
Better than William's. But I do see many of the same flaws as you w. Penix.
It's not that I think he'll be great, it's that I believe neither Nix nor Williams will and that Penix us better than both.
There were only 2 stud qbs in the draft, Maye and Daniels. And while I think Daniels will be very good-great, I know that Maye will be better.

 

[Salsalife]

Big challenge. So on the fence with this one...Which Patriots team will show up?

 

[PatsfanTN]

He - what now?

Don’t even care, he’s hard to hate.

BUT, I did have to start some **** this week with a Bills fan. Blame me if we lose, I don’t care.

 

[signbabybrady]

Don’t even care, he’s hard to hate.

BUT, I did have to start some **** this week with a Bills fan. Blame me if we lose, I don’t care.

It should say 0-4 lol

 

[patfanken]

Ken please don't compare Nix to Brady in any way shape or form. I knew Brady was a stud his rookie year. Nix has 0 pocket presence unlike Brady did even as a rookie. He has a very mediocre arm.
I see him as a slightly better version of Tim Tebow. Hes not gonna put a team on his back the way Brady already could in 2003.
Nix wasn't worth a 1st round pick imo.

IIRC Brady threw one pass his rookie year, so go back to the beginning and start your opinion piece over again from the correct starting point. And 2001 Brady wasn't even CLOSE to 2004-19 Brady so don't even get me going on THAT mythology.

Back then, even with the Superbowl title, Brady was considered the archetype "game manager" much like a lot of people concider Nix. Another QB who is considered lucky to be in the perfect situation for his skill set.

I think the point is there isn't just one set of skills that make up a QB that will get you a winning program, and it seems to me that at this moment and time the NFL is fortunate to have a fairly large number of QB's who can provide those skills, and PERHAPS, as that number continues to grow there will come a time in a few years when it won't take the gross national product of a small nation to sign a starting QB in the NFL

 

[GreenCow]

Went back and forth when our game against Panthers was over in basically in the 2nd quarter.. Buffalo was competing IMO.. some time uncommon opponents can present challenges.. we faced this plenty over the years during the Brady era.. remember that 2007 game against the eagles? where we nearly lost.. they weren't a contender that season really and had a back up QB.

The bills didn't win that game until the 4th quarter. We've been an inferior opponent to Buffalo since Brady left.

Yeah, you clearly didn’t watch that game.

To quote Mike Florio recapping the game “it looked the Bills were just playing with their food”.

 

[KCSVEN]

There are 2 kinds of quality QB's. One is the kind that can execute the right game plan. Keep you out of mistakes and lead an offense. There is another who can do all that plus AND (on occasion) has the physical ability to carry a team on his back as we've seen Allen do once and a while.

I could write 100 pages on the difficulty of analyzing a QB. What would Maye have done as Washington QB last year? What would Nix have done on the Patriots. It's hard, I watch every throw by many of these QB's and still it is hard but you can get an idea of what players are more likely to be good and which are not.

To separate the guy that needs a great supporting cast and great OC from a guy that can be THE main reason you win a Super Bowl is a difficult thing. I believe they call it The Brock Purdy Dilemma LOL. He was always around superior talent and coaching, but was putting up great numbers so how do you know he wasn't great? Luckily, 2024 gave us the answer, good QB but middle of the pack NFL starting QB but not a great one and not a top 10 NFL QB.

Back to the thread subject. This is one of the few games this year where we don't have the QB advantage. The task will be difficult. Really looking forward to seeing how the team performs, this could be a statement game or a reality check.

 

[Triumph]

He - what now?

He was destined for Buffalo long ago.

 

[TommyD4207]

God Onwenu is ****ing fat.

 

[Triumph]

 

[jimnance]

IIRC Brady threw one pass his rookie year, so go back to the beginning and start your opinion piece over again from the correct starting point. And 2001 Brady wasn't even CLOSE to 2004-19 Brady so don't even get me going on THAT mythology.

Back then, even with the Superbowl title, Brady was considered the archetype "game manager" much like a lot of people concider Nix. Another QB who is considered lucky to be in the perfect situation for his skill set.

I think the point is there isn't just one set of skills that make up a QB that will get you a winning program, and it seems to me that at this moment and time the NFL is fortunate to have a fairly large number of QB's who can provide those skills, and PERHAPS, as that number continues to grow there will come a time in a few years when it won't take the gross national product of a small nation to sign a starting QB in the NFL

Obviously I meant 2001, his first real year.
And I disagree. Brady was a stud in 2003. That's after less than 2 full years as a starter.
Bo Nix is a slightly better Tebow. Not a flop, but he's a Jag.
Ken, I believe youre being disingenious.
If you surround a weak-armed mediocre qb with elite talent on both offense,and defense they will win a lot of games.
See Jalen Hurts who is not an elite qb by any stretch but a solid game manager. A slightly above average qb. But he us head shoulders better than Nix.
Brady was elite. Peyton was elite. Josh Allen. Mahomes. Nix on Nix.
Yes, football is a team game but you and Wozzy are both out of touch with the NFL game.
How many guys can do what Brady did v. Atlanta and Seattle in those SB's. Nobody.
Mahomes and Allen have also put their teams on their backs at times.
Yes, it's team game. But Jeez, you damn well know qb is the singularly most important position in the game.
I judge qbs by what they can do w/o a lot of help.Brady had some very solid teams especially 2001-2004 but he also had many teams with not so much talent. He made players,around him better, another trait of an elite qb.
But of course, you know that.
I hotca lot of respect for you Ken but you are wrong here. Unless youre just stirring the pot a bit, tweaking qb fan boys.
But that's not me. I don't glorify anybody.
I am my own role model. And I recognize the incredible beauty of an oline working in tandem, as one unit. I love the symbiosis of the different units on D working together to achieve success.
I appreciate the wr who sacrifices himself to make a key block for a teammate.
But qb is still the most important today. I remember when it wasn't always that way.
Nobody dominated a game Jim Brown in the 60's

 

[captain stone]

This is why I think the Patriots should win this one outright.

It's not like we lose by 50 to the Bills every time we play them. I just don't think the Bills are that good. Maybe they prove me wrong. but that defense is soft, they don't generate pressure, and the offense outside of Cook on the ground is Josh Allen trying to pull miracles out of his ass. It's just not a sustainable model long-term, but they don't really have any other options.

That was a dogshit team last year that played them that close, with a dogshit coaching staff.

The chances of the Pats winning in Barfalo on Sunday night are the same as future senator John Blutarsky's grade point average.

 

[captain stone]

I really wanted to see how K Bourne played with a guy like S Diggs; too bad we won't ever get to see that. This Offense couldn't use his 229 yards an 12.7 average: somebody here must have pissed him off. Terrible move by us.

It was either Dawghouse or the pet Weirdo Hollins for Outside WR #4: Diggs, BootyTime & Poop Douglass weren't going anywhere; and Chism was Slot WR #2. I would've kept Bourne over Hollins, but what I would've really done was find a WR better than either of them.