How Bad Are We?

[mike_usagisan]

There’s been RB’s who fixed themselves at fumbling through coaching and technique. It’s not an all or nothing proposition.

BB himself said he used to ride Rhamondre to protect the ball. It’s not a new problem, it’s a lack of attention problem.

I was listening to Unfiltered and they were talking about how Faulk used the elbow pads as a way to secure the ball. And how Tiki Barber adjusted his technique so the ball was against his chest.

 

[Thelonious]

Vrabel made a point in one of his press conferences that they needed to practice the heck out of it. That's the only way to change it. So I think there are adverse consequences, but also hopefully teachable ones.

I understand, but I assume the sweetness and light, intensely pedagogical apprroach has been ongoing for some time now: this is hardly a new problem. Surely they have not failed to to "practice the heck out of it" up to now. I taught school for decades. I always made every effort at helping students to amend their behavior, but there comes a time when an application of the metaphorical 2x4 is in order. I thought Rhamondre's whiny, down-in-the-mouth, poor me, ******** reaction after his most recent failures indicated a distinct need for that sort of lumber.

 

[Thelonious]

LoL. You'll be complaining about this stuff still even if he wins multiple championships. At least you're consistent.

You are delusional.

 

[Thelonious]

I strongly disagree.
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I do understand that some think that an important part of coaching is public relations and statements to the press.

If Belichick worried about that, he wouldn't have been a patriot coach for more than a year or two. And, NO, getting fan and young player approval for public statements is NOT any more important today than 20 years ago.

I struggle to see how this is a reasonable response to what I have said. We seem to be talking about two quite different things. So it goes.

 

[Thelonious]

So, you don't like Vrabel's public statements.

As with Belichick, personally, I don't care. Let him do what he thinks is right for the locker room. For example, I wouldn't have given Bourregales the game ball, but if Vrabel thinks that it helps, then fine.
=========
I have no easy answer for handling the situation with Stevenson. Benching him and playing Jennings as our #3 doesn't seem quite right going forward. I can see why he isn't sure what he wants to do. He has to decide whether to give Handerson and Gibson 95% of the reps.
The answer may be to trade for our 3rd back and make whatever deal we need to in order to move Stevenson.

No, I don't think Varbels public remarks have done a thing to address the problem, particularly when they take the form of ******** excuses. Our wires are crossed, it seems, but I really don't fell like untangling it all. Carry on.

 

[rkarp1]

I assume they have been "practicing the heck out of it".
I also assume it is a moot point with no pads practices.
Stevenson's fumbles appear to be after initial contact, where he is fighting for additional yards, one of his strengths, he fumbles.

 

[Bill Lee]

I assume they have been "practicing the heck out of it".
I also assume it is a moot point with no pads practices.
Stevenson's fumbles appear to be after initial contact, where he is fighting for additional yards, one of his strengths, he fumbles.

I think there's going to be a tipping point soon where the coaching staff decides the cost of the actual fumbles and the coaching bandwidth to try to get the player to pay more attention is greater than the production. RBs often drop off after four years. At some point it's time to move on and IMO either he finally gets it by the end of the season or he simply will not be back next year. Right now the coaching staff pretty much has a free pass, they can get away with a loss at PIT largely due to the RB1 having two fumbles. That free pass probably doesn't last more than a year.

 

[mgteich]

No, I don't think Varbels public remarks have done a thing to address the problem, particularly when they take the form of ******** excuses. Our wires are crossed, it seems, but I really don't fell like untangling it all. Carry on.

I AGREE that Vrabel's public statements have done nothing to solve the problem.

I don't EXPECT a coach's public statements to solve any team problems.

 

[mgteich]

That free pass probably doesn't last more than a year.

So, you think that if Vrabel has a poor year Kraft will fire him? Dream on.

 

[Thelonious]

I AGREE that Vrabel's public statements have done nothing to solve the problem.

I don't EXPECT a coach's public statements to solve any team problems.

I agree and disagree with you to this extent. I do not think the solution to personnel problems, which is essentially what this is, are best addressed by public statement. However:

1) It is certainly the case that a coach's public statements can make a resolution fo a problem more difficult to the extent they might "poison the well," compromise the coach/player relationship, and make communications, private ones, ones antecedent to action or to sanction imposed for the failures, more difficult.

2) Vrabel's excuse-making and this ******** about how the problem is really that "other players" have failed to keep opponents off of Rhamondre when he is carrying the ball, particularly given that Rhamondre's fumbles are often in situations where he is not at all being aggressively tackled - he simply forgets, neglects, to hold onto the ball, to keep two hands on. it when a tackle is imminent - is complete counterproductive ********. The fumbles are, even more than is typical, explicitly Rhamondre's fault in this instance, and giving him such an out from his personal responsibility is foolish vis-a-vis solving the problem.

Rhamondre needs to sit. I would not dress him this week, and I would not reactivate him until there is sound reason to believe the problem is solved. Whiney, "Gosh. I fell bad I did that" stuff won't cut it, not after this extended period of failure to hold onto the damned ball.

 

[Thelonious]

Vrabel is out there flying by the seat of his pants.

Capri pants??

 

[mgteich]

I agree and disagree with you to this extent. I do not think the solution to personnel problems, which is essentially what this is, are best addressed by public statement. However:

1) It is certainly the case that a coach's public statements can make a resolution fo a problem more difficult to the extent they might "poison the well," compromise the coach/player relationship, and make communications, private ones, ones antecedent to action or to sanction imposed for the failures, more difficult.

2) Vrabel's excuse-making and this ******** about how the problem is really that "other players" have failed to keep opponents off of Rhamondre when he is carrying the ball, particularly given that Rhamondre's fumbles are often in situations where he is not at all being aggressively tackled - he simply forgets, neglects, to hold onto the ball, to keep two hands on. it when a tackle is imminent - is complete counterproductive ********. The fumbles are, even more than is typical, explicitly Rhamondre's fault in this instance, and giving him such an out from his personal responsibility is foolish vis-a-vis solving the problem.

Rhamondre needs to sit. I would not dress him this week, and I would not reactivate him until there is sound reason to believe the problem is solved. Whiney, "Gosh. I fell bad I did that" stuff won't cut it, not after this extended period of failure to hold onto the damned ball.

I don't know how Vrabel would have sound reasons to believe that the problem is solved.

In the end, Stevenson isn't all that valuable to the 2026 and 2027 teams. Perhaps it is simply time to move on. My question is how ready are we to have Henderson, Gibson and Jennings as are our RB's now. If Vrabel traded for a #2 RB, I would be all for dumping Stevenson in a heartbeat after seeing if someone would take him after his contract was restructured.

 

[Thelonious]

I don't know how Vrabel would have sound reasons to believe that the problem is solved.

In the end, Stevenson isn't all that valuable to the 2026 and 2027 teams. Perhaps it is simply time to move on. My question is how ready are we to have Henderson, Gibson and Jennings as are our RB's now. If Vrabel traded for a #2 RB, I would be all for dumping Stevenson in a heartbeat after seeing if someone would take him after his contract was restructured.

It is Vrabel's job to make such determinations. You and I are not in a position, not competent, to make them. If Vrabel is not, that is a real problem.

I don't advocate "moving on" from Rhamondre at this point, but neither do I think there's any chance we will get our moneysworth if we persist in ignoring or making excuses for an obvious shortcoming in his game.

 

[Triumph]

Capri pants??

Mugsy jeans.

Thats how he rolls.

 

[Thelonious]

Mugsy jeans.

Thats how he rolls.

Your avatar put me in mind of Capri pants somehow, you cheeky monkey.

 

[Triumph]

Your avatar put me in mind of Capri pants somehow, you cheeky monkey.

Sprocket.

 

[Thelonious]

Make of this what you will:

QBR PAA PLAYS EPA PASS

Mac Jones , 2025.: 64.5 3.9 89 12.6 11.8

Drake May, 2025: 56.9 5.4 147 18.7 13.5

• QBR:Adjusted Total Quarterback Rating, which values the quarterback on all play types on a 0-100 scale adjusted for the strength of opposing defenses faced.
• PAA:Number of points contributed by a quarterback, accounting for QBR and how much he plays, above the level of an average quarterback.
• PLAYSlays on which the QB has a non-zero expected points contribution. Includes most plays that are not handoffs.
• EPA:Total expected points added with low leverage plays, according to ESPN Win Probability model, down-weighted.
• PASS:Expected points added on pass attempts with low leverage plays down-weighted

 

[TommyD4207]

Make of this what you will:

QBR PAA PLAYS EPA PASS

Mac Jones , 2025.: 64.5 3.9 89 12.6 11.8

Drake May, 2025: 56.9 5.4 147 18.7 13.5

• QBR:Adjusted Total Quarterback Rating, which values the quarterback on all play types on a 0-100 scale adjusted for the strength of opposing defenses faced.
• PAA:Number of points contributed by a quarterback, accounting for QBR and how much he plays, above the level of an average quarterback.
• PLAYSlays on which the QB has a non-zero expected points contribution. Includes most plays that are not handoffs.
• EPA:Total expected points added with low leverage plays, according to ESPN Win Probability model, down-weighted.
• PASS:Expected points added on pass attempts with low leverage plays down-weighted

 

[Bill Lee]

So, you think that if Vrabel has a poor year Kraft will fire him? Dream on.

Free pass means he will not get fired for what happens this season.

Next season, keeping an RB that fumbles frequently after having an entire off-season to find a better one will draw criticism, IMO, enough to make the staff try to avoid that situation entirely.

 

[dliverey44]

Capri pants??

Since he is flying it is probably parachute pants