Who took the bigger risk (for the Patriots)?

[Boomer B]

You can rehash all you want the answer is still yes I wish we let the guy who won us 6X SB championships pick one more QB and see if he could get it right over handing it over to Coach X. We're lucky a coach like Vrabel who played here and had an affinity for here was available or we'd probably have a worse option than Mayo was.

What about the rest of the team? We had one of, if not the worst rosters in the leagues because of the drafting rhe last decade. The o-line and WRs sucked for years, even in Brady’s last few years. How many years does Bill get it retool the bottom tier roster he built? You act like is was only the QB who held us back.

 

[signbabybrady]

And my point is I don't think any amount of time would have been respectful enough. If it was 5 years, you'd say say he deserved more than one year with Maye. If it was 6 years, it would be "he took the earliest QB's he could, it's not his fault they didn't pan out, you have to see what he can do with someone who can play".

There is zero evidence that there was a single player on the team that he didn't 100% approve and green light and you still hid behind "he should have never been forced to collaborate" as cover for his failure as a GM, despite his drafts being awful for years before that point.

Then there would be some point where he's in his mid to late 70's and we wasted years giving him every possible chance when he spent a career not doing that for any player he had. The guy was failing for a long time, showed no ability to turn the corner after being given years to do so, and he was at an age where every coach you could compare him to had either already been retired or was a year away from retiring.

As I've been saying it's not about the amount of time it's about only giving him one crack at it with Mac and not trying again with another QB.

You yourself have pointed out some medelling.

He got 2 years after his last playoff appearance. Not nearly enough.

But I guess you enjoyed the Mayo time more than you did Bill.

 

[signbabybrady]

What about the rest of the team? We had one of, if not the worst rosters in the leagues because of the drafting rhe last decade. The o-line and WRs sucked for years, even in Brady’s last few years. How many years does Bill get it retool the bottom tier roster he built? You act like is was only the QB who held us back.

The OL and WRs performed better for Bill even in Bill's last year then they did for Mayo.

 

[sb1]

What about the rest of the team? We had one of, if not the worst rosters in the leagues because of the drafting rhe last decade. The o-line and WRs sucked for years, even in Brady’s last few years. How many years does Bill get it retool the bottom tier roster he built? You act like is was only the QB who held us back.

And if we're talking about risks... the Pats certainly would be taking one if they kept a past-his-best-before-date BB to chase that record. There's no other upside, anything else is Team Bill wishful thinking.

I don't think anyone wants to see Bill take his 4 win team and limp across the finish line in 3 or so years for the record. Nobody would care about it and that would be too bad. That would also be putting personal accomplishment over the team which isn't at all what the Patriots are all about.

 

[sb1]

And my point is I don't think any amount of time would have been respectful enough. If it was 5 years, you'd say say he deserved more than one year with Maye. If it was 6 years, it would be "he took the earliest QB's he could, it's not his fault they didn't pan out, you have to see what he can do with someone who can play".

There is zero evidence that there was a single player on the team that he didn't 100% approve and green light and you still hid behind "he should have never been forced to collaborate" as cover for his failure as a GM, despite his drafts being awful for years before that point.

"Collaborate". You can always count on that Team Bill word showing up when they are making excuses for their hoodied hero. Mac Jones wasn't BB's fault ya know... BB didn't ruin him he was never good and he was also forced to draft him because BB wasn't really the GM of this team or something even though he had that title. Lol. Lol.

Then there would be some point where he's in his mid to late 70's and we wasted years giving him every possible chance when he spent a career not doing that for any player he had. The guy was failing for a long time, showed no ability to turn the corner after being given years to do so, and he was at an age where every coach you could compare him to had either already been retired or was a year away from retiring.

This.

Also there's a good reason why to date no coach in NFL history has won anything in his 70's. Being set in your way of doing things makes it tough to change course when it becomes necessary.

 

[signbabybrady]

And if we're talking about risks... the Pats certainly would be taking one if they kept a past-his-best-before-date BB to chase that record. There's no other upside, anything else is Team Bill wishful thinking.

I don't think anyone wants to see Bill take his 4 win team and limp across the finish line in 3 or so years for the record. Nobody would care about it and that would be too bad. That would also be putting personal accomplishment over the team which isn't at all what the Patriots are all about.

No one was talking Shula's record.

In what world do you think Mayo was better than Bill. It's really that simple we failed to replace Bill with someone better therefore it would have been better to see what Bill could have done instead of wasting a year of everyone's life. Hopefully Vrabel and Maye prevent us from having to go back in again soon but we got lucky Vrabel wanted to come back here otherwise we could have been really screwed. Maybe we could have been stuck with Brian Schotenheimer instead.

 

[signbabybrady]

"Collaborate". You can always count on that Team Bill word showing up when they are making excuses for their hoodied hero.

Kraft gave away the franchise tag doesn't get much more medelling than that. But we can always count on the Bill Haters to ignore facts when they are continuously kicking their hoodied "hero" a few more times.

 

[Rob0729]

Many coaches get chances to change OCs it's not some fiasco in those terms.

The only other coach I know of in modern NFL history put a coach in as coordinator on the side of the ball that that coordinator had no experience was when Andy Reid put Juan Castillo in as defensive coordinator despite never coaching on the defensive side of the ball in his NFL career (he was a defensive position coach at Texas A&M - Kingsville, a divsion II school and not the Texas A&M, for a few years about two decades earlier). Reid was fired in part because of it.

It wasn't that Belichick didn't have a right to change his OC. It was a fiasco because he put a guy completely unqualified which the owner openly disagreed with but allowed him to do it because of his Super Bowl pedigree. It was also that he made a coach the QB coach with a very young QB room that had no experience on offense or coaching QBs. And it was also that they tried to change the offense to a system that no one on the offensive staff had any experience running and with players who probably not suited for that offense.

 

[Rob0729]

Zappe wasn't the guy either. Sucks. If there was some magic wand to the next QB that would have been nice.

Sure Zappe wasn't the guy either, but the way he handled his QBs was atrocious in both years. And if Zappe wasn't the guy and Mac wasn't the guy, why wasn't there a veteran QB in the QB room to take over when both failed in 2023?

 

[signbabybrady]

The only other coach I know of in modern NFL history put a coach in as coordinator on the side of the ball that that coordinator had no experience was when Andy Reid put Juan Castillo in as defensive coordinator despite never coaching on the defensive side of the ball in his NFL career (he was a defensive position coach at Texas A&M - Kingsville, a divsion II school and not the Texas A&M, for a few years about two decades earlier). Reid was fired in part because of it.

It wasn't that Belichick didn't have a right to change his OC. It was a fiasco because he put a guy completely unqualified which the owner openly disagreed with but allowed him to do it because of his Super Bowl pedigree. It was also that he made a coach the QB coach with a very young QB room that had no experience on offense or coaching QBs. And it was also that they tried to change the offense to a system that no one on the offensive staff had any experience running and with players who probably not suited for that offense.

Yes I get everyone hates the DC on offense it obviously wasn't the best move. I'm just saying at the end of the day many coaches have changed/fired coordinators during their tenure it's not some unheard of fiasco.

Not to mention the coordinators that have followed Matt Patricia haven't done better here.

 

[signbabybrady]

Sure Zappe wasn't the guy either, but the way he handled his QBs was atrocious in both years. And if Zappe wasn't the guy and Mac wasn't the guy, why wasn't there a veteran QB in the QB room to take over when both failed in 2023?

QBs don't grow in trees. Most teams in the league are going through similar things. Its undeniable that Bill would have been better for Maye than Mayo was.

And where would we be now if Vrabel didn't pick us? Answer you'd still be hating Bill but secretly deep down you'd be wishing for Bill.

 

[billdog3484]

100% Bob Kraft took the bigger risk and it isnt even close. i love BB but give me a freakin break. anyone who thinks BB took a bigger risk either doesnt remember, never knew or are complete BB ball washers

 

[Wax Frog]

Interesting that Bill found the need to rebut. The **** measuring that's going on is ridiculous. Kraft took a risk to hire Bill. Bill took a risk to work for Kraft.

Kraft's continued campaign for Canton is getting tiresome. How abut you build another winning team and STFU about how great you are/were?

 

[Rob0729]

Yes I get everyone hates the DC on offense it obviously wasn't the best move. I'm just saying at the end of the day many coaches have changed/fired coordinators during their tenure it's not some unheard of fiasco.

Not to mention the coordinators that have followed Matt Patricia haven't done better here.

Changing coordinators is not a big deal. Taking a huge risk by making a coach with next to no offensive coaching experience the OC and have him implement an offensive system new to the team that none of the offensive coaches have experience running is a huge fiasco.

 

[signbabybrady]

Changing coordinators is not a big deal. Taking a huge risk by making a coach with next to no offensive coaching experience the OC and have him implement an offensive system new to the team that none of the offensive coaches have experience running is a huge fiasco.

I'm not talking about replacing Josh I'm just saying at the end they fired Patricia the same as any team firing any other OC. It's not that uncommon.

 

[Rob0729]

QBs don't grow in trees. Most teams in the league are going through similar things. Its undeniable that Bill would have been better for Maye than Mayo was.

And where would we be now if Vrabel didn't pick us? Answer you'd still be hating Bill but secretly deep down you'd be wishing for Bill.

LOL! Five years ago, I was called a Bill Belichick suck up for defending his moves to wanting to move on from Brady. Now I am being accused of hating Bill. Too funny.

No I wouldn't be wishing for Bill. I love Belichick and what he did for the team for 20 years, but the game clearly has passed him by whether it is he just cannot adapt, he didn't want to adapt, or he didn't care.

If the Pats didn't get Vrabel, they might have gotten Johnson or another hot coordinator. It wasn't Vrabel or bust. There were other options. Vrabel was just Kraft's first choice.

Bill might have been better than Mayo for Maye, but I am not sure he would have been the best option for Maye at all. And if the Pats didn't get Vrabel, I would be secretly and openly wishing for Ben Johnson. In fact, there is a chance I could be wishing that this year with Vrabel coaching the Patriots depending on what he does with Caleb Williams.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm not talking about replacing Josh I'm just saying at the end they fired Patricia the same as any team firing any other OC. It's not that uncommon.

They fired Patricia because he was a disaster. What is uncommon about that is because he was an unqualified OC who was implementing a system he had no knowledge about. Just because Bill O'Brien didn't do any better (in part because Belichick didn't let him have input on his coaching staff and Belichick did everything possible to make Mac Jones a basketcase) doesn't make it a monumental mistake.

 

[signbabybrady]

LOL! Five years ago, I was called a Bill Belichick suck up for defending his moves to wanting to move on from Brady. Now I am being accused of hating Bill. Too funny.

No I wouldn't be wishing for Bill. I love Belichick and what he did for the team for 20 years, but the game clearly has passed him by whether it is he just cannot adapt, he didn't want to adapt, or he didn't care.

The game didn't pass him by he just didn't find the right QB. That's my point. He earned a chance to try a second rookie instead of Mayo.

If the Pats didn't get Vrabel, they might have gotten Johnson or another hot coordinator. It wasn't Vrabel or bust. There were other options. Vrabel was just Kraft's first choice.

Bill might have been better than Mayo for Maye, but I am not sure he would have been the best option for Maye at all. And if the Pats didn't get Vrabel, I would be secretly and openly wishing for Ben Johnson. In fact, there is a chance I could be wishing that this year with Vrabel coaching the Patriots depending on what he does with Caleb Williams.

Key word above is might. Johnson might/probably still chooses Caleb because he was the higher selected QB. And most of these hot coordinators end up failing. We should have given Bill a little longer before volunteering for the scary coaching cycle.

 

[sb1]

100% Bob Kraft took the bigger risk and it isnt even close. i love BB but give me a freakin break. anyone who thinks BB took a bigger risk either doesnt remember, never knew or are complete BB ball washers

I suppose Bill took a bigger risk with Bunny as his new sidekick….

 

[sb1]

LOL! Five years ago, I was called a Bill Belichick suck up for defending his moves to wanting to move on from Brady. Now I am being accused of hating Bill. Too funny.

Me too. I was totally in denial about what losing Brady meant to this team. Wasn’t hard to come around on it.

No I wouldn't be wishing for Bill. I love Belichick and what he did for the team for 20 years, but the game clearly has passed him by whether it is he just cannot adapt, he didn't want to adapt, or he didn't care.

Combination of all of them. Bill’s NFL career ended no differently than other legendary coaches who were close to his age. Being set in your way of doing things which is understandable at his age- and that is a barrier to adapting and getting better. The yes men that BB surrounded himself with was the worst thing he could have done for himself at the end.

If the Pats didn't get Vrabel, they might have gotten Johnson or another hot coordinator. It wasn't Vrabel or bust. There were other options. Vrabel was just Kraft's first choice.

Bill might have been better than Mayo for Maye, but I am not sure he would have been the best option for Maye at all. And if the Pats didn't get Vrabel, I would be secretly and openly wishing for Ben Johnson. In fact, there is a chance I could be wishing that this year with Vrabel coaching the Patriots depending on what he does with Caleb Williams.

Bill wouldn’t have drafted Maye at all. No doubt about that whatsoever. Maye is not even close to his MO for QB prospects.