Who took the bigger risk (for the Patriots)?

[signbabybrady]

Bill had to stick with the QB he picked after he created a situation that lost him the GOAT QB.

Removing him didn't fix the problem because Mayo was a disaster and couldn't create improvement on Bill's awful finish.

Exactly instead rushing into the rinse and repeat cycle Bill deserved a chance to fix his own mess. Instead the owner held grudges and made things worse. Hopefully Maye and Vrabel bail him out.

 

[sb1]

Bill had to stick with the QB he picked after he created a situation that lost him the GOAT QB.

Removing him didn't fix the problem because Mayo was a disaster and couldn't create improvement on Bill's awful finish.

Yep.

With Mayo we could say he wasn't close to ready to be an NFL coach and it showed. What's Bill's excuse?

 

[signbabybrady]

For a sense of what BB being .426 post Brady looks like in terms of other NFL coaches.

Yep he'd sure have a list of legendary coaches around him as company. Yikes.

Everyone knew the post BB era would be difficult and you guys rushed into line for it. So far the post BB era has been significantly worse than the post Brady era but keep burying your heads in the sand.

Hopefully Maye and Vrabel can bail us out. Took the Red Sox 86 years to recover post Babe Ruth.

 

[signbabybrady]

Yep.

With Mayo we could say he wasn't close to ready to be an NFL coach and it showed. What's Bill's excuse?

Kraft, medelling, and collaboration.

 

[Boomer B]

Even if true, that is an enormous contribution.

Given Bill's unpopular, really toxic reputation going in, and then the list of public relations and team chemistry decisions he made that launched the criticism even higher each time than it was previously.

So many owners stand pat. They're afraid to make moves. Robert is a bit of an emotional loose cannon, but it appears today, especially with the organization's silly trumpeting of the ownership, his actual role in the dynasty is underrated.

Without Kraft I think Brady jumps ship a lot sooner than he did. Kraft helped clue everything to together for 20 years,

 

[Boomer B]

How'd that work out for New Orleans?

Really? Better question is how did it work out for Tampa Bay.

 

[signbabybrady]

Really? Better question is how did it work out for Tampa Bay.

It worked out great for them. Let's try that. Do you think we can pry Mahomes free? Though I would like to see how this Maye thing goes first.

 

[Rob0729]

Mac went south real quick BB determined he wasn't the guy but collaboration had already seeped in.

If he thought he wasn't the guy. Bench him. Don't create QB controversies. Don't start him and bench him over and over again. That again is Rich Kotite type of coaching. Those are a fire-able offenses.

 

[Rob0729]

He's not any other head coach he deserved way more.

He got way more. Again, he is the only head coach who could have survived the Patricia fiasco. The only one. And then next year, he did a fire-able offense just as bad. Pick a year. 2022 or 2023. He did things in each of those years that any other head coach would have been fired for. His GOAT coaching only buys him so much leeway.

 

[signbabybrady]

He got way more. Again, he is the only head coach who could have survived the Patricia fiasco. The only one. And then next year, he did a fire-able offense just as bad. Pick a year. 2022 or 2023. He did things in each of those years that any other head coach would have been fired for. His GOAT coaching only buys him so much leeway.

Many coaches get chances to change OCs it's not some fiasco in those terms.

 

[signbabybrady]

He got way more. Again, he is the only head coach who could have survived the Patricia fiasco. The only one. And then next year, he did a fire-able offense just as bad. Pick a year. 2022 or 2023. He did things in each of those years that any other head coach would have been fired for. His GOAT coaching only buys him so much leeway.

It should have bought him more.

 

[lancerman]

Kraft never should have started medelling with that absolute power. Krafts jealousy of Brady getting number 7 really screwed up Krafts logical managing.

The team was going downhill. People love to say Kraft was meddling. There is absolutely zero evidence anyone every brings up of Belichick being told he couldn't make a decision at any point in his final 4 years. There's not one concrete instance of it.

Belichick thinking he was some sort of super genius who could win with a mid level QB and had a bunch of yes men huffing his farts screwed up his logical managing.

You keep saying Belichick should have gotten more of a chance. No other coach would have been given the chance to start ****ing around with the GOAT QB who was healthy and playing at an MVP level, no other coach would have been allowed to not deal any type of reasonable offer and watch that QB walk with no answer for it, no coach would have been allowed to not name a DC for years because it would make it look like his son got passed over, no coach would have been allowed to treat their #1 draft pick QB like a little kid and drag him off the field, no coach would have been allowed to name Matt Patricia the head of the offense.

Bill was allowed all that. You say he deserved more. He got more leeway than any other coach in the league would have gotten. He used that to make the case against himself.

Even now you are proving Kraft's point by saying Bill deserved unilateral power again to fix the mistakes he made. If Bill was making those types of decisions and the only answer was to let him remain unchecked, then he could not be trusted to stay onboard. That is just pure insanity.

 

[signbabybrady]

If he thought he wasn't the guy. Bench him. Don't create QB controversies. Don't start him and bench him over and over again. That again is Rich Kotite type of coaching. Those are a fire-able offenses.

Zappe wasn't the guy either. Sucks. If there was some magic wand to the next QB that would have been nice.

 

[lancerman]

It should have bought him more.

Not when you are the guy making all the stupid decisions that led the team there. You can regroup and do a shake up and try new things when you can point fingers at other problems. When the problems ultimately all filter up to the same point, you end up being left with one culprit.

 

[signbabybrady]

The team was going downhill. People love to say Kraft was meddling. There is absolutely zero evidence anyone every brings up of Belichick being told he couldn't make a decision at any point in his final 4 years. There's not one concrete instance of it.

Bill didn't give away the franchise tag.

Belichick thinking he was some sort of super genius who could win with a mid level QB and had a bunch of yes men huffing his farts screwed up his logical managing.

Land of make believe.

You keep saying Belichick should have gotten more of a chance. No other coach would have been given the chance to start ****ing around with the GOAT QB who was healthy and playing at an MVP level, no other coach would have been allowed to not deal any type of reasonable offer and watch that QB walk with no answer for it, no coach would have been allowed to not name a DC for years because it would make it look like his son got passed over, no coach would have been allowed to treat their #1 draft pick QB like a little kid and drag him off the field, no coach would have been allowed to name Matt Patricia the head of the offense.

Oh look you're pointing out some of that meddling yourself with the whole Mayo Stephen stuff.

Bill was allowed all that. You say he deserved more. He got more leeway than any other coach in the league would have gotten. He used that to make the case against himself.

He got 4 years post Brady and the greatest run of all time. 5 or 6 years isn't too much to ask for. And now especially after seeing the results of the first attempt to replace him I know I'm even more right.

Even now you are proving Kraft's point by saying Bill deserved unilateral power again to fix the mistakes he made. If Bill was making those types of decisions and the only answer was to let him remain unchecked, then he could not be trusted to stay onboard. That is just pure insanity.

More backwards logic.

 

[signbabybrady]

Not when you are the guy making all the stupid decisions that led the team there. You can regroup and do a shake up and try new things when you can point fingers at other problems. When the problems ultimately all filter up to the same point, you end up being left with one culprit.

Kraft and you and your annoying group of Bill haters. Multiple culprits I guess.

 

[lancerman]

Zappe wasn't the guy either. Sucks. If there was some magic wand to the next QB that would have been nice.

All the more reason to not to start ****ing around the GOAT QB you already have on your team. Again, he created his own mess and then compounded on it by screwing up all his attempts at fixing it.

1. Don't start a pissing match with Brady by trying to set up his exit.
2. Don't ignore him all offseason when he can walk and then give him some mediocre deal that shows you didn't want to retain him.
3. Don't go into the off season with a dud like Stidham as your replacement.
4. Don't show the whole world you ****ed up by scrambing to get Cam Newton who was washed at the time as a bandaid for your own mess.
5. The next year when you need a QB don't play passive and wait for the last QB projected in the 1st round to fall to you and let other people trade over you so you don't have any say in who you get.
6. Don't take that QB and create a QB controversy with another QB who was a total sack of **** anyways.
7. Don't saddle them with a guy like Matt Patricia who has never coached an offense at a high level a day in his life.
8. Don't constantly all your QB's over the last 5 years **** weapons and a **** line.

And that's just the QB position that he screwed over. We could talk about how he mismanaged the kicking role during that time, we can talk about how he extended all his old favorites on defense and turned it into Jurassic Park with a bunch of slow guys, we could talk about how the team looked less prepared every single year and were making stupid decisions that were comical and news worthy by the end, we could talk about how every single one of his drafts for years were absolute failures. We can talk about how he only surrounded himself with old favorites on his coaching staff and couldn't ever find new forward thinking coaches. We can talk about how whenever he had a decision to make between players in free agency he always went after some sort of value deal over the more talented guys and was consistently getting duds (Sanu, Smith etc). We can talk about how the offensive line had been a mess since at least 2019 and he never fixed it and it's still a problem to this day. We can talk about how all of a sudden for the first time in the whole Belichick era we had a head coach who was starting to make excuses for himself and was covering his own ass instead of taking a "the buck stops with me" approach like he had for many years.

There's no way a reasonable person can look at where the team was when Bill got fired and think he deserved to stay on for any reason besides blind nostalgia.

 

[lancerman]

Kraft and you and your annoying group of Bill haters. Multiple culprits I guess.

You can look back at my posts when Brady left and I defended Belichick and said that it was a good time for both to leave and that Bill needed to rebuild and it was better for Brady to go off somewhere he could win and for Bill to be free to start a rebuild without being stuck trying to sell out to win with Brady when the team didn't have it anymore.

I was proven wrong because Bill proved he was not the man to do that and that many of the problems that occurred around the time Brady left continued and it was all on him.

 

[lancerman]

Bill didn't give away the franchise tag.


Land of make believe.


Oh look you're pointing out some of that meddling yourself with the whole Mayo Stephen stuff.


He got 4 years post Brady and the greatest run of all time. 5 or 6 years isn't too much to ask for. And now especially after seeing the results of the first attempt to replace him I know I'm even more right.

More backwards logic.

The franchise tag was given away because it was the only way to get Brady on board with the way Belichick wanted to handle him. Not doing that was going to extend the standoff they were currently having into something more serious.

You can continue to put your head in the sand, there were plenty of credible reporters with sources on the team that were saying members of Bill's coaching staff thought they could win with any middle of the pack QB. That was around 2017.

Bill made the decision to not name a DC nobody else. He knew Mayo did all the day to day with the players and Mayo had the respect of the players on defense and there was no way he was going to get away with anything but him being named DC instead of Steve. He didn't want to spurn his son, so he created that dumbass situation for several years.

The team was in a downward spiral. There is no evidence to think that an extra year was going to change things. He'd been drafting poorly for over a decade by that point. The talent on the roster had gone downhill consistently since 2017 and was getting worse every year.

Yeah unilateral power by a coach who won his little power struggle with the QB is what started the end of Bill Belichick. And guess what? Nobody else in the entire NFL wanted him after that. He was toxic. He had to go to some third rate school that he's currently embarrassing because they have to put up with his **** and he's validating everyone who passed him over.

 

[Boomer B]

It worked out great for them. Let's try that. Do you think we can pry Mahomes free? Though I would like to see how this Maye thing goes first.

Sorry, but you are all over the map here. We had Brady, we pissed him off by going year to year when all he wanted was the deal Bree’s got: 2 years $50m. Don’t know what you’re trying get at with your Mahomes comment.