2025 LT

[manxman2601]

With regards to Josh Simmons' torn patella tendon, I saw Victor Cruz mentioned on a podcast. after 3 consecutive 1,000 yard receiving seasons, he tore his patella tendon in 2014. After a two year rehab, he made it back for one season of 39 - 586 before being cut at age 30. He never played again.

I don't know whether Cruz's injury was more severe than Simmons' or not, but I'm always concerned about the path to recovery following severe injuries.

 

[Clonamery]

With regards to Josh Simmons' torn patella tendon, I saw Victor Cruz mentioned on a podcast. after 3 consecutive 1,000 yard receiving seasons, he tore his patella tendon in 2014. After a two year rehab, he made it back for one season of 39 - 586 before being cut at age 30. He never played again.

I don't know whether Cruz's injury was more severe than Simmons' or not, but I'm always concerned about the path to recovery following severe injuries.

He had an additional left leg calf injury after overcompensating to his original injured right leg.

Giants' Victor Cruz reveals what really was wrong with his leg last season

The Giants receiver is again on the comeback trail after a rough year.

www.nj.com

 

[manxman2601]

 

[bakes781]

Personally, I dont see hiw Grant could fall out of round 3. He's too talented.

And with Brown, I could see the 3rd based on how things go earlier. Teams will panic on a tackle if a run goes before their pick. See the Patriots with Caeden Wallace last year. He never should've gone in the top 70 picks last year. Shouldn't have gone top 100.

I think Grant is more of a true OT where as Logan could be moved around IMO

 

[State]

Josh Conerly, obvious Patriot target. Athleticism and future holding penalties are in evidence here.

 

[AQPE]

This is shocking to see. I was under the impression from a number of posters here that Campbell’s tape sucked in spite of his gaudy on field performance numbers (aka what he’s actually done during real football games), he got “worked” by “everyone 6’4” or taller” such Kyle Kennard (for a coverage sack and a single QB hit in 14 pass plays, for some reason the tape people keep posting that here doesn’t have any running plays showing their matchup or explain why Kennard only lined up against Campbell on 14 plays out of more than 30 passing plays, surprising since Kennard was supposedly having his way in the matchup).

Funny how only the nitty gritty tape of Campbell allegedly sucking gets posted here, never the same for Simmons, Membou, and Conerly who I’ve read here are clearly superior to Campbell (and Banks also, who has slightly better on field performance numbers as a LT than Campbell). Apparently we must not apply the same level of scrutiny to Membou with his zero career snaps in college at LT and RAS score lower than Campbell’s since he is 3 months younger and the more athletic prospect (never mind the RAS scores), or 33 inch arm possibly odd personality Simmons for whom no RAS score is available, or Conerly whose “light went on” more than two years after Campbell started the first game of the season as a true freshman (going up against 2024 NFL DROY Jared Verse and allowing one (1) sack to the guy).

I’d prefer to see the Pats trade down, and if they do and he and the other four leading LT prospects are all there, I’d be OK with any of them since they all have evident flaws. Similarly I’d be OK with them in the trade down scenario taking someone more likely to be a star in the NFL. What will piss me off, however, is a repeat of last year’s draft where they couldn’t get a trade up done into either the first or second round and reached badly for a slow idiot WR and a very flawed OT prospect.

 

[State]

I was under the impression from a number of posters here that Campbell’s tape sucked

Straw man. I am here too much and am unacquainted with what you allege.

What I and others have said is that Campbell will spend the predominance of his career as a LG. We already have a couple of decent options there with Cole Strange and the forgotten Sidy Sow.

 

[zimmy]

My view on Campbell has been pretty consistent. He has the ability to play tackle in the nfl but the arm length caps his ceiling. I don’t think he has pro bowl tackle in his range of outcomes. Think he is more of a Matt Light serviceable type. Given our desperate need there and the fact he is apparently a locker room leader that may be enough in this draft. It’s not like we are passing up a blue chipper to take him.

I’ve been pushing Jalon Walker as the alternative pick at 4 on this board for a few months because in addition to being A+ on character, he has the ability to be a game wrecker. His ceiling is super high as a moveable chess piece and he seems made for the modern NFL. If you are shooting for a difference maker and potential superstar he is the pick in my opinion. It’s just a bit of a projection right now.

 

[manxman2601]

My view on Campbell has been pretty consistent. He has the ability to play tackle in the nfl but the arm length caps his ceiling. I don’t think he has pro bowl tackle in his range of outcomes. Think he is more of a Matt Light serviceable type. Given our desperate need there and the fact he is apparently a locker room leader that may be enough in this draft. It’s not like we are passing up a blue chipper to take him.

I’ve been pushing Jalon Walker as the alternative pick at 4 on this board for a few months because in addition to being A+ on character, he has the ability to be a game wrecker. His ceiling is super high as a moveable chess piece and he seems made for the modern NFL. If you are shooting for a difference maker and potential superstar he is the pick in my opinion. It’s just a bit of a projection right now.

Walker has made it into my top 3 sans H&C. You’re right about the upside and the fact that he’s a projection. The team will need the right plan for him as I don’t think he’s an every down linebacker or edge. If they can turn him into a hybrid player that plays every down but switches between LB and DE then that could work.

The thing that wins it for Campbell (or Membou) for me is that we wouldn’t need to get mixed up in whether a LT falls or whether we can trade up. There’s too much uncertainty there for me.

 

[manxman2601]

Deleted. Duplicate.

 

[dliverey]

This is shocking to see. I was under the impression from a number of posters here that Campbell’s tape sucked in spite of his gaudy on field performance numbers (aka what he’s actually done during real football games), he got “worked” by “everyone 6’4” or taller” such Kyle Kennard (for a coverage sack and a single QB hit in 14 pass plays, for some reason the tape people keep posting that here doesn’t have any running plays showing their matchup or explain why Kennard only lined up against Campbell on 14 plays out of more than 30 passing plays, surprising since Kennard was supposedly having his way in the matchup).

Funny how only the nitty gritty tape of Campbell allegedly sucking gets posted here, never the same for Simmons, Membou, and Conerly who I’ve read here are clearly superior to Campbell (and Banks also, who has slightly better on field performance numbers as a LT than Campbell). Apparently we must not apply the same level of scrutiny to Membou with his zero career snaps in college at LT and RAS score lower than Campbell’s since he is 3 months younger and the more athletic prospect (never mind the RAS scores), or 33 inch arm possibly odd personality Simmons for whom no RAS score is available, or Conerly whose “light went on” more than two years after Campbell started the first game of the season as a true freshman (going up against 2024 NFL DROY Jared Verse and allowing one (1) sack to the guy).

I’d prefer to see the Pats trade down, and if they do and he and the other four leading LT prospects are all there, I’d be OK with any of them since they all have evident flaws. Similarly I’d be OK with them in the trade down scenario taking someone more likely to be a star in the NFL. What will piss me off, however, is a repeat of last year’s draft where they couldn’t get a trade up done into either the first or second round and reached badly for a slow idiot WR and a very flawed OT prospect.

I have pointed out things on his tape that concern me. The potential position switch concerns me as well just like with Membou.

I do prefer Membou over Campbell but acknowledge concerns with him as well. I prefer a trade downas well.

Marone has witnessed a successful change from RT to LT, so hopefully he can determine if Membou has what it takes. If they draft Campbell i will be happy with that because they determined he is the best LT out there.

 

[zimmy]

I think to take Walker you already need to have a trade worked out with Minnesota for 24. You can’t leave too much to chance with these tackles falling.

We’ve painted ourselves into a corner again at OT. Elliot Wolf said in an interview recently that he felt the draft was too needs based last year and they might have passed up better players to fill holes. That has me thinking they won’t do it again but then we desperately need a starting tackle and that can only really be filled in the top 32. My head says Campbell is the pick at 4. It makes sense from a team building and need perspective. My heart says Walker as a swing for the fences pick who could end up being one of the premier defensive players in the NFL.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Funny how only the nitty gritty tape of Campbell allegedly sucking gets posted here, never the same for Simmons, Membou, and Conerly who I’ve read here are clearly superior to Campbell (and Banks also, who has slightly better on field performance numbers as a LT than Campbell). Apparently we must not apply the same level of scrutiny to Membou with his zero career snaps in college at LT and RAS score lower than Campbell’s since he is 3 months younger and the more athletic prospect (never mind the RAS scores), or 33 inch arm possibly odd personality Simmons for whom no RAS score is available.

Membou's RAS score was 9.89 and Campbell's RAS score was 9.91, a statistically insignificant 0.02 difference (0.2% difference). Measurement devices have tolerances, see Deflategate, which you ignored and wrote a whole paragraph about Campbell's superior RAS score which is statistically equivalent with Membou's.

 

[bakes781]

I have pointed out things on his tape that concern me. The potential position switch concerns me as well just like with Membou.

I do prefer Membou over Campbell but acknowledge concerns with him as well. I prefer a trade downas well.

Marone has witnessed a successful change from RT to LT, so hopefully he can determine if Membou has what it takes. If they draft Campbell i will be happy with that because they determined he is the best LT out there.

So the new battle cry is "in Marone we trust" now?

 

[Rdforty2]

Membou's RAS score was 9.89 and Campbell's RAS score was 9.91, a statistically insignificant 0.02 difference (0.2% difference). Measurement devices have tolerances, see Deflategate, which you ignored and wrote a whole paragraph about Campbell's superior RAS score which is statistically equivalent with Membou's.

I think its worth stating. We've been through this before. We have repeatedly heard about Membou's RAS score in support of his talent. Campbell's isn't discussed, except his was actually better. Even if by a miniscule amount, it shouldn't be discussed as a positive for one player and ignored in another. Same as the age. We've heard Membou's age a dozen times but nobody brought up that Campbell is less than 3 months older until I brought it up here a couple weeks ago.

I agree with your sentiment - their RAS(and age) are essentially identical. But only one has routinely had those traits referenced as a positive.

 

[manxman2601]

I assume you all know the Hollin Pierce story. Was a walk on at Rutgers at 454lbs and now plays at 341. I found a before and after shot. Can't criticise his work ethic.



I also found this nugget.

• Tremendously disciplined with just four penalties over 3,100 snaps, per PFF.

 

[AQPE]

Membou's RAS score was 9.89 and Campbell's RAS score was 9.91, a statistically insignificant 0.02 difference (0.2% difference). Measurement devices have tolerances, see Deflategate, which you ignored and wrote a whole paragraph about Campbell's superior RAS score which is statistically equivalent with Membou's.

1. There was no paragraph about Campbell’s superior RAS score, unless you consider 10 words in a long paragraph to be their own paragraph.

2. No I did not “ignore” measurement tolerances, I simply made reference to the fact that as you pointed out while many are promoting Membou’s superior athleticism (which may be correct) it is in spite of the RAS score results for him vis a vis Campbell. Whether that difference is attributable to measurement tolerances is not something I’ve seen discussed anywhere until you brought it up here, so I would have no reason to bring that up myself previously.

Really I was just tweaking the folks who I think have been applying a double standard to Campbell. Frankly my post was prompted by annoyance with posts from a certain highly exalted poster with his own thread on this topic who so far has turned his critical eye and purportedly superior analytical skills towards Campbell and not at all to the others in the top tier. One thing I simply can’t stand is a double standard. I’ve read your posts on this topic and didn’t take that issue with your opinions. Now we have some evidence that people who do this for a living have a different opinion. It’s not just the person cited in the tweet above, I heard the same thing yesterday from Pat Kirwin who coached the OT position and was a player personnel director in the NFL.

To reiterate I’m at the point where drafting any of who I perceive, rightly or not, to be the top LT prospects (plus Ersery) will please me, whether with the #4 pick, a trade down, or a trade up I don’t care, I just don’t want them to pull the same **** that they do last year and frankly for quite a while now and wind up in the bargain bin for that position. They’ve wasted draft, trade, and free agency capital on this and have Vederian Lowe, Caedan Wallace, the ancient Morgan Moses, and Trey Jacobs to show for it.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think its worth stating. We've been through this before. We have repeatedly heard about Membou's RAS score in support of his talent. Campbell's isn't discussed, except his was actually better. Even if by a miniscule amount, it shouldn't be discussed as a positive for one player and ignored in another. Same as the age. We've heard Membou's age a dozen times but nobody brought up that Campbell is less than 3 months older until I brought it up here a couple weeks ago.

I agree with your sentiment - their RAS(and age) are essentially identical. But only one has routinely had those traits referenced as a positive.

I don't agree. You could also say that Campbell playing in the SEC has been mentioned repeatedly and rarely is it mentioned that Membou plays in the SEC. How many times has it been mentioned that Campbell has been starting in the SEC since freshman year? I am not defending Membou, and have repeatedly said that Campbell and Membou are the same age, have the same RAS, and both play in the SEC. I have no idea why you and others think you have to defend Campbell. Aren't we all looking for the best player for the Pats?

I want the BPA which almost all draft experts agree is Graham and Jeanty, not Campbell or Membou. Drafting for need leads to long term disappointment. Graham is the guy if Hunter and Carter are gone.

 

[dliverey]

So the new battle cry is "in Marone we trust" now?

I have to trust him and his evaluation because he has a ton more input than I do. Because I trust him does not mean I will not scrutinize the choices.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

1. There was no paragraph about Campbell’s superior RAS score, unless you consider 10 words in a long paragraph to be their own paragraph.

2. No I did not “ignore” measurement tolerances, I simply made reference to the fact that as you pointed out while many are promoting Membou’s superior athleticism (which may be correct) it is in spite of the RAS score results for him vis a vis Campbell. Whether that difference is attributable to measurement tolerances is not something I’ve seen discussed anywhere until you brought it up here, so I would have no reason to bring that up myself previously.

Really I was just tweaking the folks who I think have been applying a double standard to Campbell. Frankly my post was prompted by annoyance with posts from a certain highly exalted poster with his own thread on this topic who so far has turned his critical eye and purportedly superior analytical skills towards Campbell and not at all to the others in the top tier. One thing I simply can’t stand is a double standard. I’ve read your posts on this topic and didn’t take that issue with your opinions. Now we have some evidence that people who do this for a living have a different opinion. It’s not just the person cited in the tweet above, I heard the same thing yesterday from Pat Kirwin who coached the OT position and was a player personnel director in the NFL.

To reiterate I’m at the point where drafting any of who I perceive, rightly or not, to be the top LT prospects (plus Ersery) will please me, whether with the #4 pick, a trade down, or a trade up I don’t care, I just don’t want them to pull the same **** that they do last year and frankly for quite a while now and wind up in the bargain bin for that position. They’ve wasted draft, trade, and free agency capital on this and have Vederian Lowe, Caedan Wallace, the ancient Morgan Moses, and Trey Jacobs to show for it.

We are not going to fix the OL situation in 1 season. There were very limited options in the 2025 tackle FA and are limited tackle options in the draft. The worst thing possible is to get emotional and force a pick based on perceived need (see Polk and Wallace). We might have to get by with Moses and Trapilo for a year. Maybe sign Smith to hobble along.

The best idea is to pick starters and All Pros which is statistically more commonly done if we pick BPA, not pick in the draft due to need. At #4 I hope we pick Graham. And later an EDGE. Our D would be awesome.

Vrabel said Strange would stay at Center, so we need a LG, and 2 tackles. Also a WR1, an X receiver, and a 3rd down back. That is not all going to happen in 2025. Relax and enjoy the ride.