Abdul Carter at 4#. Hunter has gone do we trade?

[lancerman]

If Vrabel and his team in their front office draft to make the fans happy then they will fail at their real job, which is to build a championship team. They need to be picking the best players they can get, not trying to fill the fans desires. If Hunter and Carter are gone I would take Membou at 4, and then either a DT or a WR with their 2nd pick, depending upon who is still available. They shouldn’t be trying to do the entire rebuild in one offseason, they should be trying to add as many really good prospects/players as they can, then do the same next offseason. If things go right they could turn themselves into actual contenders again.

I'm not arguing to make the fans happy...

 

[Steve102]

Couldn’t disagree more . I think Campbell is going to be a really good pro, and I think Macmillan is a dog.

A dog or a dawg?

 

[Huckleberry1]

Membou at 4 is a bit scary as 1. he plays RT and would be a projection and 2. while not as severe, at 33.5 arm length is not as long as you would like but the 82in wingspan is fine.

Playing RT doesn’t concern me. He’s only 20 years old, and he’s one of the best athletes at tackle to ever come out. And, as it turns out, the reason he was playing right tackle was because the Left Tackle at Missouri was unable to make the switch to right tackle. He also has the nasty put them in the ground mentality you want for your offensive linemen. I don’t think they will have a problem moving him to left tackle, and I believe he has the highest ceiling of any of the offensive linemen in this draft, so I will take some of the risk in return for what could turn into an All Pro Left Tackle. I think the Patriots have to take chances on talent, and should be drafting high ceiling prospects over safer high floor prospects.

 

[Huckleberry1]

A dog or a dawg?

Either is fine. He might fit a team that wants a jump ball receiver, I don’t want Maye throwing into coverage hoping his guy comes down with it, I want receivers who get separation and get open.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Over the last 6 years Pats fans have said "x player HAS to be better than what we have now". Saying a guy who probably can't even play the position of the guy you want to replace doesn't need a comeback. It's wishful thinking and cope.

Campbell ain't going to solve your line problem, take that to the bank and you'll be reading about Pats fans crying about WR's sucking and dropping balls again for another year.

If you think for a moment Lowe is better that Campbell, you have serious problems. Just stop replying for the sake of arguing and actually think about what you post. It is not wishful thinking to know Campbell is better than one of the worst tackles in the league. Just stop the idiocy.

Campbell is a one solution to many different problems. LT and LG are problems. He solves one of them. I don't care which one. I have said all along, we need to double dip in the draft at LT because Lowe is so bad. A guy like Ozzy Trapilo with one of the 3 picks and develop him. If the Campbell LT test fails, slide him and and move Ozzie up. If you were listening, and you obviously were not, Vrabel said he is fixing the trenches before anything else. The d-line is better. The o-line is better. Both are not fixed yet and will take multiple years to fix.

I am not crying about WR this year. I am intelligent enough to understand rebuilding a team is not done in one offseason. It is going to take time to get the WR room fixed, but Vrabel said he is starting with the trenches. I am fine with that. If your QB get killed on every play, no WR will make a difference.

 

[mgteich]

If you think for a moment Lowe is better that Campbell, you have serious problems. Just stop replying for the sake of arguing and actually think about what you post. It is not wishful thinking to know Campbell is better than one of the worst tackles in the league. Just stop the idiocy.

Campbell is a one solution to many different problems. LT and LG are problems. He solves one of them. I don't care which one. I have said all along, we need to double dip in the draft at LT because Lowe is so bad. A guy like Ozzy Trapilo with one of the 3 picks and develop him. If the Campbell LT test fails, slide him and and move Ozzie up. If you were listening, and you obviously were not, Vrabel said he is fixing the trenches before anything else. The d-line is better. The o-line is better. Both are not fixed yet and will take multiple years to fix.

I am not crying about WR this year. I am intelligent enough to understand rebuilding a team is not done in one offseason. It is going to take time to get the WR room fixed, but Vrabel said he is starting with the trenches. I am fine with that. If your QB get killed on every play, no WR will make a difference.

We need a LG for next 5 years.
I would not draft Campbell at 4 to be that LG, with the bonus of him being transition LT for a year. We could just sign Smith for that (or sign someone else)

SIGN ONE to add to our draftee plus Lowe (LT) and Strange (LG). That would give us more flexibility in our picks. Or wait until after Day 2 of the draft.

• Tyron Smith
• Jedrick Wills
• D.J. Humphries
• Germain Ifedi
• Andrus Peat
• George Fant
• Joseph Noteboom
• Jackson Carman
• Chris Hubbard
• Jake Curhan
• Jackson Barton
• Olisaemeka Udoh
• David Quessenberry
• Isaiah Wynn
• Jack Driscoll
• Andre Dillard
• Calvin Anderson
• Le'Raven Clark
• Geron Christian
• Hakeem Adeniji
• Justin Herron
• D'Ante Smith

Offensive Tackle​

 

[imahobgoblin]

We need a LG for next 5 years.
I would not draft Campbell at 4 to be that LG, with the bonus of him being transition LT for a year. We could just sign Smith for that (or sign someone else)

SIGN ONE to add to our draftee plus Lowe (LT) and Strange (LG). That would give us more flexibility in our picks. Or wait until after Day 2 of the draft.

• Tyron Smith
• Jedrick Wills
• D.J. Humphries
• Germain Ifedi
• Andrus Peat
• George Fant
• Joseph Noteboom
• Jackson Carman
• Chris Hubbard
• Jake Curhan
• Jackson Barton
• Olisaemeka Udoh
• David Quessenberry
• Isaiah Wynn
• Jack Driscoll
• Andre Dillard
• Calvin Anderson
• Le'Raven Clark
• Geron Christian
• Hakeem Adeniji
• Justin Herron
• D'Ante Smith

Offensive Tackle​

I wouldn't draft Campbell with the intention of him playing LG. I think the Pats believe he is a LT. They will try him at LT in 2025. How will that go? We will know by midseason. If he cannot hack LT, there is nothing wrong to putting him at LG like a Joe Thuney. Its not a waste to have a potential pro-bowler at LG. Its not the ideal because we want a LT, but its not a bad consolation if we have to move him. He is still a far better lineman than most on the roster. Campbell is a good football player and we need good football players.

Our starters today are Lowe, Robinson, Bradbury, Owenu, Moses.

That leaves Strange, Wallace, Sow, Schweitzer, Jacobs, Brown, Tyrese Robinson, Jake Andrews, and Cotton.

We can only keep 9, and there is log jam of lower talent at LG.

We have to draft a starting LT. I would like to see us draft 2 LTs. I think the Pats try to fix the LG this year with someone already on the roster.

 

[lancerman]

If you think for a moment Lowe is better that Campbell, you have serious problems. Just stop replying for the sake of arguing and actually think about what you post. It is not wishful thinking to know Campbell is better than one of the worst tackles in the league. Just stop the idiocy.

Campbell is a one solution to many different problems. LT and LG are problems. He solves one of them. I don't care which one. I have said all along, we need to double dip in the draft at LT because Lowe is so bad. A guy like Ozzy Trapilo with one of the 3 picks and develop him. If the Campbell LT test fails, slide him and and move Ozzie up. If you were listening, and you obviously were not, Vrabel said he is fixing the trenches before anything else. The d-line is better. The o-line is better. Both are not fixed yet and will take multiple years to fix.

I am not crying about WR this year. I am intelligent enough to understand rebuilding a team is not done in one offseason. It is going to take time to get the WR room fixed, but Vrabel said he is starting with the trenches. I am fine with that. If your QB get killed on every play, no WR will make a difference.

Campbell MOST LIKELY outcome is that he has to move to guard. So he's probably not even going to be capable of playing the position Lowe is. He has a huge red flag that is basically a non starter at the position he currently plays and struggles against college edge rushers because of it already.

So just because you want him to be better, doesn't make it so. It's dumb to waste a pick on a guard.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Campbell MOST LIKELY outcome is that he has to move to guard. So he's probably not even going to be capable of playing the position Lowe is. He has a huge red flag that is basically a non starter at the position he currently plays and struggles against college edge rushers because of it already.

So just because you want him to be better, doesn't make it so. It's dumb to waste a pick on a guard.

I don't care if you have decided Campbell has to be a guard. If the Pats draft him, they believe he will be a tackle. In fact that is what Vrabel said. I am so sorry he did not get your permission to say that to the media. Are you going to call and tell him that you demand Campbell has to be a guard base on a whole bunch of crap you made up?

On 866 snaps, he allowed only 2 sacks, 5 hits, and 11 hurries in 2024. In 2023 on 805 snaps, he allowed 0 sacks, 5 hits and 12 hurries. In 2022, on 882 snaps, 2 sacks, 3 hits, and 9 hurries.

Let's compare that to a highly rated tackle from the 2023 draft, Paris Johnson who was picked at #6 by the Cardinals. At Ohio State in 2022, he had totaled 757 snaps, 2 sacks, 0 hits and 9 hurries.

Let's compare that to a highly rated tackle from the 2024 draft, Joe Alt who was picked at 5 by the Chargers. At Notre Dame in 2023, he totaled 713 snaps, 1 sack, 0 hits, and 5 hurries.

The numbers are not all that different. Campbell in 2024 averaged a sack every 441 snaps, a hit every 173.2 snaps, and a hurry every 79 snaps. Johnson averaged a sack every 378 snaps, 0 hits in 757, and a hurry every 84 snaps. Alt averages a sack every 713 snaps, 0 hits, and a hurry every 142 snaps.

1) The stats I listed have flaws. I did not feel like researching the % of run vs pass snaps. Its not needed for this point. 2) Joe Alt was considered as close to a perfect LT prospect as one can get. No one is confusing Campbell with Alt. 3) The stats show that Campbell is similar to Paris Johnson. The hits are a little higher, but the stats are not all that different.

But the biggest takeaway is what you posted is total crap. "He has a huge red flag that is basically a non starter at the position he currently plays and struggles against college edge rushers because of it already." No, that is a total lie. Allowing 2 sacks, 5 hits, and 11 hurries on 866 snaps is not struggling against college edge rushers. In fact, his stats are very good and nowhere near what you claim.

"So he's probably not even going to be capable of playing the position Lowe is." What the heck are you even talking about? Lowe is one of the worst tackles in the league. If you seriously are claiming Lowe is better than Campbell, you are either delusional or a liar.

 

[mgteich]

I don't care if you have decided Campbell has to be a guard. If the Pats draft him, they believe he will be a tackle. In fact that is what Vrabel said. .

If we draft him as our LT for the next four years. we'll give him time to fit into that position. I don't like the idea of giving him 1/2 a season or so to see if he is a LT and tremendous to LG if he is not.

 

[lancerman]

I don't care if you have decided Campbell has to be a guard. If the Pats draft him, they believe he will be a tackle. In fact that is what Vrabel said. I am so sorry he did not get your permission to say that to the media. Are you going to call and tell him that you demand Campbell has to be a guard base on a whole bunch of crap you made up?

On 866 snaps, he allowed only 2 sacks, 5 hits, and 11 hurries in 2024. In 2023 on 805 snaps, he allowed 0 sacks, 5 hits and 12 hurries. In 2022, on 882 snaps, 2 sacks, 3 hits, and 9 hurries.

Let's compare that to a highly rated tackle from the 2023 draft, Paris Johnson who was picked at #6 by the Cardinals. At Ohio State in 2022, he had totaled 757 snaps, 2 sacks, 0 hits and 9 hurries.

Let's compare that to a highly rated tackle from the 2024 draft, Joe Alt who was picked at 5 by the Chargers. At Notre Dame in 2023, he totaled 713 snaps, 1 sack, 0 hits, and 5 hurries.

The numbers are not all that different. Campbell in 2024 averaged a sack every 441 snaps, a hit every 173.2 snaps, and a hurry every 79 snaps. Johnson averaged a sack every 378 snaps, 0 hits in 757, and a hurry every 84 snaps. Alt averages a sack every 713 snaps, 0 hits, and a hurry every 142 snaps.

1) The stats I listed have flaws. I did not feel like researching the % of run vs pass snaps. Its not needed for this point. 2) Joe Alt was considered as close to a perfect LT prospect as one can get. No one is confusing Campbell with Alt. 3) The stats show that Campbell is similar to Paris Johnson. The hits are a little higher, but the stats are not all that different.

But the biggest takeaway is what you posted is total crap. "He has a huge red flag that is basically a non starter at the position he currently plays and struggles against college edge rushers because of it already." No, that is a total lie. Allowing 2 sacks, 5 hits, and 11 hurries on 866 snaps is not struggling against college edge rushers. In fact, his stats are very good and nowhere near what you claim.

"So he's probably not even going to be capable of playing the position Lowe is." What the heck are you even talking about? Lowe is one of the worst tackles in the league. If you seriously are claiming Lowe is better than Campbell, you are either delusional or a liar.

Saying a draftee who has never played in the league and has major red flags and is questionable to even play the position you want is automatically better is foolish on it's face and this franchise has gotten burned by that mindset many times over the last several years.

Not even worth engaging with anymore.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Playing RT doesn’t concern me. He’s only 20 years old, and he’s one of the best athletes at tackle to ever come out. And, as it turns out, the reason he was playing right tackle was because the Left Tackle at Missouri was unable to make the switch to right tackle. He also has the nasty put them in the ground mentality you want for your offensive linemen. I don’t think they will have a problem moving him to left tackle, and I believe he has the highest ceiling of any of the offensive linemen in this draft, so I will take some of the risk in return for what could turn into an All Pro Left Tackle. I think the Patriots have to take chances on talent, and should be drafting high ceiling prospects over safer high floor prospects.

Membou is definitely an athletic freak for a OLineman
My concern also is trying to make the switch
Not only at Missouri but at Lee’s Summit North High School he played only Right Tackle
So even in HS they didn’t try him out on the Left side
He could be a HOF from the left side.
But there is absolutely no evidence that he can switch sides

 

[bakes781]

I wouldn't draft Campbell with the intention of him playing LG. I think the Pats believe he is a LT. They will try him at LT in 2025. How will that go? We will know by midseason. If he cannot hack LT, there is nothing wrong to putting him at LG like a Joe Thuney. Its not a waste to have a potential pro-bowler at LG. Its not the ideal because we want a LT, but its not a bad consolation if we have to move him. He is still a far better lineman than most on the roster. Campbell is a good football player and we need good football players.

Our starters today are Lowe, Robinson, Bradbury, Owenu, Moses.

That leaves Strange, Wallace, Sow, Schweitzer, Jacobs, Brown, Tyrese Robinson, Jake Andrews, and Cotton.

We can only keep 9, and there is log jam of lower talent at LG.

We have to draft a starting LT. I would like to see us draft 2 LTs. I think the Pats try to fix the LG this year with someone already on the roster.

IMO Layden Robinson has the chance to be our LG.

I would expect them to select Campbell but I'd prefer they trade down. My target would be Simmons in the teens. Either way I agree that they should double dip at LT as insurance.

 

[dliverey]

I agree Fred, I am no evaluator, but something about Carter (not just his foot injury) makes me wonder if drafting him is the right move, I'm all for trading down.

He might learn pass rush moves, but right now all he has is speed with ghost move around the edge. He attempts to spin inside but it's not polished and he doesn't set it up at all.

I don't see him as a blue chip. I see him as an athletic guy with a bunch of upside if he can develop pass rush moves and a plan. He will need good coaching because he is super raw as an edge. This was his 1st year as a primary edge.

 

[dliverey]

Who are the blue chip WR or LT prospects though? By most accounts the top guys at those spots are a notch below blue chip. Johad Campbell (LB), Jeanty (RB), Warren (TE) seem to be the "blue chip" prospects after Carter/Hunter, but lower positional value of course.

I think Jihaad Campbell and Mason Graham are as close to blue chip as Carter, maybe moreso.

 

[imahobgoblin]

IMO Layden Robinson has the chance to be our LG.

I would expect them to select Campbell but I'd prefer they trade down. My target would be Simmons in the teens. Either way I agree that they should double dip at LT as insurance.

Everything you posted is fair and logical. I agree with it, but I also won't throw a tantrum if we take Campbell at 4 if we cannot trade down. The stupid tantrum stuff over WR when we have to rebuild the lines first is just getting old.

 

[dliverey]

Membou is definitely an athletic freak for a OLineman
My concern also is trying to make the switch
Not only at Missouri but at Lee’s Summit North High School he played only Right Tackle
So even in HS they didn’t try him out on the Left side
He could be a HOF from the left side.
But there is absolutely no evidence that he can switch sides

He was 6 foot and 220 or so as a sophomore and a wrestler and played tennis. It wasn't until his JR year that he dedicated himself more to football.

He came back after the covid year at 6-2 275 And played LG. As a SR he played RT and Cayden Green a 4 star was their incumbent at LT.

So not really fair to say his high school didn't try him at LT because Membou was a late bloomer and green was highly touted.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

He was 6 foot and 220 or so as a sophomore and a wrestler and played tennis. It wasn't until his JR year that he dedicated himself more to football.

He came back after the covid year at 6-2 275 And played LG. As a SR he played RT and Cayden Green a 4 star was their incumbent at LT.

So not really fair to say his high school didn't try him at LT because Membou was a late bloomer and green was highly touted.

I keep hearing he didn’t get a chance to play LT because of X, Y and Z
He obviously is a superior talent on the right side
If a coach thinks he can possibly use that talent and protect the QB’S blindside
LT the premier OLine position. You are at least getting position flexibility duty
Everyone seems to have been a higher recruit than him to keep him on the right side
It’s just not encouraging to me

 

[TommyD4207]

Membou is definitely an athletic freak for a OLineman
My concern also is trying to make the switch
Not only at Missouri but at Lee’s Summit North High School he played only Right Tackle
So even in HS they didn’t try him out on the Left side
He could be a HOF from the left side.
But there is absolutely no evidence that he can switch sides

There's no evidence he can't, either. He played right tackle, because the left tackle was a long-term starter, and didn't suck.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Membou is definitely an athletic freak for a OLineman
My concern also is trying to make the switch
Not only at Missouri but at Lee’s Summit North High School he played only Right Tackle
So even in HS they didn’t try him out on the Left side
He could be a HOF from the left side.
But there is absolutely no evidence that he can switch sides

I didn’t know that, but i did know that didn’t start playing football until high school, and that he is the son of Suffo and Annie Membou.

Honestly Busta, I would take the chance on him. I don’t think he will get Maye killed this year, and his upside is immense. I will trust the Patriots on this decision, because they know a ****load more about offensive line play than I ever will, but I think that they should be going for the highest ceiling prospects, and trust their ability to coach them to that point. You will never go from worst to first making safe picks. And given that they aren’t going to contend this season I’m not sure why people would want the safe pick? ( they could make a run at a wild card spot, but they won’t contend for the championship)

Like most here I want Left Tackle addressed, but unlike last year, when I was a quarterback Nazi, and thought taking anyone other that Maye or Daniel's was insane, this year I will be fine with a host of players or options, just as long as they make good decisions. I would even be fine with Jeanty or Warren, they just aren’t high on my list. And while I want to see significant improvement this year, my real focus is on 26’, when I expect them to contend for the AFCE, and to be in the playoffs, and hopefully winning games there.