Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

[archstanton543]

I’m not saying that I want AVP back as OC, but it is hard to have a vertical passing game when the OL can’t block pass rushers for more than 2 secs.

I'd settle for 2 seconds at this point.

 

[PatsFan2]

I’m not saying that I want AVP back as OC, but it is hard to have a vertical passing game when the OL can’t block pass rushers for more than 2 secs.

We're in agreement right there, save the unnecessary keystrokes.

 

[PatsFan2]

I'd settle for 2 seconds at this point.

I don't even want Vederian Lowe back either.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't even want Vederian Lowe back either.

@p8ryts I am sure you're the only one who wo wants him back. We lead the League in giving up the most Pressures after the snap. It's next to a miracle Maye played as well as he did: Just imagine if he played behind two decent Offensive Tackles.

 

[Zuma]

@p8ryts I am sure you're the only one who wo want him back. We lead the League in giving up the most Pressures after the snap. It's next to a miracle Maye played as well as he did: Just imagine if he played behind two decent Offensive Tackles.

He would be a good swing tackle if he isn’t starting.

 

[PatsFan2]

He would be a good swing tackle if he isn’t starting.

Zuma: V Lowe is ok against scrub DE's: he's not good against anybody of substance. Looking good against Patriots Pathetic DE's in Practice is not a recipe for success in the NFL. I am sure Mike Vrabel is watching the Tapes I hope he moves on form V Lowe: Give us a Draft pick with upside.

 

[reflexblue]

My back hurts all the time, I never remember where I put my keys, I get up to pee several times a night, and I now have a yearly visit to the cardiologist.

And they're called the golden years for some reason..... can't see, can't pee, can't chew, can't screw..

 

[Zuma]

Zuma: V Lowe is ok against scrub DE's: he's not good against anybody of substance. Looking good against Patriots Pathetic DE's in Practice is not a recipe for success in the NFL. I am sure Mike Vrabel is watching the Tapes I hope he moves on form V Lowe: Give us a Draft pick with upside.

You should be far more worried about Jacobs than Lowe. Starter or not Lowe can play in the NFL…Jacobs can not.

 

[PatsFan2]

You should be far more worried about Jacobs than Lowe. Starter or not Lowe can play in the NFL…Jacobs can not.

Barely.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Paul McCartney is way too old for the position.

Is that guy the one who played for that band Wings

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know AJ: I was kinda feeling McCown...I am also Open to McDaniels and Nick Caley. Who's your preferred choice??

I don’t get why anyone would be considering mckown. What’s your reasoning?
I want them to hire McDaniel

 

[pazrul72]

Just caught up on the thread so some of these thoughts are days old but I’m going to post them anyway. I hear and agree with the opinion that I do not want Drake Maye learning a new offense every single year, I truly believe 20% of what made Brady elite, GOAT QB is that he knew the offense inside and out and could instantly recall, and use things from years ago because the terminology was the same. Continuity and knowing what to expect and having things you are comfortable with, and rely on, are huge for anyone but especially for young QBs. I hope they keep AVP in some role for that reason, not as OC but a familiar voice that can help with any new stuff Maye has issues with. Someone mentioned passing coordinator, sounds perfect if he will accept it.

All of that said the debate between what system to run WCO or EP seems overrated to me. It’s all the same thing it’s just in how you call it. It’s the same damn play no matter if you call it (WCO) x hook, y go, z hook, protection right green, back fake Charlie or (EP) hook 0. You can run any play from any system. Just look at Josh McDaniels running the EP. Patriot offense of 2007, spread 4 wide lots of downfield stuff. 2012 hurry up two TE balance of run and pass but lots of confusion for the defense because they could run anything at anytime with the personnel on the field. 2018 fullback on the field with a heavy emphasis on running and playaction, well once they got good in the playoffs anyway. Same OC, same system, VASTLY different offenses. It’s why I don’t buy that the EP is old and outdated, it’s just more difficult to run.

There are pros and cons to any system or philosophy. At my highschool we had about three plays run left, run right, and pass. Thing is we practiced those plays 30,000 times so we could run them to perfection. Went 10 and 0 steamrolling people until we ran into a team that had (3) 300# guys on their lines in the state championship. Got crushed because it didn’t matter that we had it blocked perfectly they knew exactly where to be and were bigger and stronger. A more complex playbook might have offered different ways to attack or confuse them, but maybe we don’t make the championship game if we didn’t have the plays run so perfectly all season.

You see the same balance question in any system and it comes down to what the players can handle. Generally speaking complex is better than simple, when run well. The problem comes in when complex is more then your players can handle then simple and easy run 100 times is better. So IMO WCO is the simple and easy where if you know you are the x receiver listening to that call the only thing you need to know is I am running a hook. Same WR in the EP ok I have to remember what the entire play looks like and that’s if it’s run against man coverage. If it’s zone I change my route to a crosser to find an open zone. Oh yeah and I hope my QB reads it the same way. WCO gets run the correct way every time, but it’s easier to stop if the defense has the right call on. EP is harder to stop because it can be adjusted on the fly depending on the defense, but it’s harder to learn and easier to have miscommunications. Which one is better? I’ll leave you to decide but both can and have worked.

TL;DR I don’t care who they pick as OC or what system they run, as long as Maye gets continuity for the next 2-4 years so they better get it right.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don’t get why anyone would be considering mckown. What’s your reasoning?
I want them to hire McDaniel

McDaniels is my first choice too: but I would like another from the McVay - Shanahan tree onboard too.

 

[Ring 6]

McDaniels is my first choice too: but I would like another from the McVay - Shanahan tree onboard too.

I’m confused. You want 2 offensive coordinators hired who run different systems?

Mckown was qb coach for 1 year in Carolina under Frank Reich who who isn’t a McVay-Shanahan guy and now 1 year under OConnell.
Why do you feel he is qualified?

 

[PatsFan2]

I’m confused. You want 2 offensive coordinators hired who run different systems?

Mckown was qb coach for 1 year in Carolina under Frank Reich who who isn’t a McVay-Shanahan guy and now 1 year under OConnell.
Why do you feel he is qualified?

Yeah because the McVay-Shanahan system is the model of Potent NFL Offenses. It's said that McDaniels was around the College game checking out the new Offenses: maybe he's thinking about the tweaking the dated Erhardt-Perkins offense.

 

[patfanken]

Sick of seeing McClown mentioned as OC, he hasn't done JACK ****.

thank you for telling us how YOU feel about Josh. Now let's ask what Tom Brady thinks and compare

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah because the McVay-Shanahan system is the model of Potent NFL Offenses. It's said that McDaniels was around the College game checking out the new Offenses: maybe he's thinking about the tweaking the dated Erhardt-Perkins offense.

I don’t agree it’s the model system. But nevertheless 2 OCs with different systems just isn’t going to work.
McDaniels offense is not “the dated Erhardt-Perkins offense”. It has its roots in that system 50 years ago. It has evolved many generations. Hell we looked a lot more like a college spread offense at times.

 

[PatsFan2]

thank you for telling us how YOU feel about Josh. Now let's ask what Tom Brady thinks and compare

You are talking about a guy who was fired after a year with an Offense that had players doing that?? It was said during his Raider very short stint: the Defense already knew what he was going to do.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don’t agree it’s the model system. But nevertheless 2 OCs with different systems just isn’t going to work.
McDaniels offense is not “the dated Erhardt-Perkins offense”. It has its roots in that system 50 years ago. It has evolved many generations. Hell we looked a lot more like a college spread offense at times.

As long as that Offense is freshened up that's fine with me. That said I am not against an Offensive mind in this century.

 

[patfanken]

Yeah because the McVay-Shanahan system is the model of Potent NFL Offenses. It's said that McDaniels was around the College game checking out the new Offenses: maybe he's thinking about the tweaking the dated Erhardt-Perkins offense.

I can't emphasize this point enough. The so-called EP 'system" as it stands today has little to do with a scheme or offensive philosophy. What it is essentially at this point is a LANGUAGE, or communications system, just think back to those 20-year golden era when EP was the the language spoken in Foxboro. Think about the myriads of styles and different points of emphasis we've seen across those years. People forget that we were among the first teams in the league to go with 3 wide outs as a feature formation. one of the first to make 2 TE's an emphasis in a passing offense.

I know that Shanahan and McVay schemes have been all the rage this recently, but there are no schemes, formations, motions or routes that you see in those offenses, that you cannot be copied with the EP language and semantics.

I stress this only because THIS is the basis of the language that Maye has learned, and it would be a step back to make him learn a new one