Now we get to see if Kraft is cheap or shrewd

[Ross12]

I stand by the idea that Kraft was fine with spending last year, but no one wanted to play here. Mayo was unattractive, Foxboro is unattractive, and Drake Maye wasn't drafted yet.

In 2024, they'll have Vrabel (probably) and Drake Maye has a year of spicy tape. Solves 2 problems. If Vrabel can sell guys on Foxboro they'll get some guys in here, although it remains to be seen to what extent. Though as many have said, they really NEED to spend to start getting to the cap floor.

 

[TommyD4207]

I stand by the idea that Kraft was fine with spending last year, but no one wanted to play here. Mayo was unattractive, Foxboro is unattractive, and Drake Maye wasn't drafted yet.

In 2024, they'll have Vrabel (probably) and Drake Maye has a year of spicy tape. Solves 2 problems. If Vrabel can sell guys on Foxboro they'll get some guys in here, although it remains to be seen to what extent. Though as many have said, they really NEED to spend to start getting to the cap floor.

Other than huffing only the purest of hopium...

What in the last 30 years of Bob Kraft's ownership would demonstrate that he's been willing to spend real money?

 

[Ross12]

Other than huffing only the purest of hopium...

What in the last 30 years of Bob Kraft's ownership would demonstrate that he's been willing to spend real money?

I don't think he is spending averse, he just wants the team to spend responsibly. Generally if you look at the teams with the highest real cash spending, it is teams that have made bad contracts. It's not like the "high spenders" list lines up neatly with the "successful teams" list. We'll see, I guess.

 

[Bill Lee]

A decade of data provides the answer......

Over the past 10 years, the Patriots ranked last in the NFL in cash spending at $1.62 billion, according to Roster Management System. The Philadelphia Eagles, at $1.92 billion, were tops over that span.

The difference is 19%, not night and day, IMO.

The data says PHL spent 19% more and got one less Super Bowl appearance and and one less Super Bowl win in those ten years.

If I was a PHL fan (god forbid!) I'd be pissed.

I don't get the "Kraft is cheap" narrative.

Does a cheap guy buy his team two airliner-sized private jets?

Personally I think it's a bit of an anti-Semitic dog whistle.

 

[Bill Lee]

Nobody wanted Dugger when he was available to everyone. That was a red flag. And yet, the Pats rewarded him with average annual salary more than his tag. Owenu was immediately retained at top 5 T money when he's not an anchor in any way for an OL. Him and Robert Hunt were duds. There was no reason to extend both Barmore and Rham who would be on prove it deals now. In fact, I don't even think Barmore plays again.

So now we're arguing that Kraft spent too much?

What FAs were wiling to come to NE to play similar roles?

What do you do to your locker room if you don't pay any of your guys?

 

[Mack Herron]

I don’t think spending is the pivotal issue now. The coaching decision will likely hinge on Vrabel’s comfort with decision by committee vs Kraft’s willingness to delegate personnel authority to Vrabel’s guy or move on to Johnson (or someone sufficiently compliant).

 

[mgteich]

What do you do to your locker room if you don't pay any of your guys?

What is your point?

This year started a new era. Do you really think that Kraft didn't pay enough to Barmore, Onwenu, Dugger, Peppers, Andrews, Stevenson, Tavai, and Henry? We spent $140M in guaranteed contracts to our guys.

This next off-season, the money will go almost exclusively to free agents. Perhaps we will extend Jones and Wise, perhaps not.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So now we're arguing that Kraft spent too much?

What FAs were wiling to come to NE to play similar roles?

What do you do to your locker room if you don't pay any of your guys?

Why would you care? They're now a back to back 4 win team.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I stand by the idea that Kraft was fine with spending last year, but no one wanted to play here. Mayo was unattractive, Foxboro is unattractive, and Drake Maye wasn't drafted yet.

In 2024, they'll have Vrabel (probably) and Drake Maye has a year of spicy tape. Solves 2 problems. If Vrabel can sell guys on Foxboro they'll get some guys in here, although it remains to be seen to what extent. Though as many have said, they really NEED to spend to start getting to the cap floor.

To start getting to the cap floor? That is your idea of spending? Your idea of burning cash? I am expecting far far more spending than that.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

What is your point?

This year started a new era. Do you really think that Kraft didn't pay enough to Barmore, Onwenu, Dugger, Peppers, Andrews, Stevenson, Tavai, and Henry? We spent $140M in guaranteed contracts to our guys.

This next off-season, the money will go almost exclusively to free agents. Perhaps we will extend Jones and Wise, perhaps not.

Wise is nearly toast.

 

[Ross12]

To start getting to the cap floor? That is your idea of spending? Your idea of burning cash? I am expecting far far more spending than that.

I am saying they can’t not spend. But they hopefully spend a lot more than what they must spend.

 

[Bill Lee]

What is your point?

Why would you care? They're now a back to back 4 win team.

It's a team sport. Future FAs aren't going to go to a team if it's understood the team doesn't try to keep talent. They can't throw and catch the ball too, ya know. They want to know their future team doesn't just tear it all down each and every year.

Even a 4 win team needs to keep core talent around. There's a minimum spend to consider as well.

Splashing a bit of cash on your own guys is a sign of a healthy team, IMO.

And again, I thought we were arguing Kraft doesn't spend, but now we're arguing he spends too much?

 

[borg]

Personally I think it's a bit of an anti-Semitic dog whistle.

Injecting this swill while trying to defend the 32nd highest spender.......

 

[Bill Lee]

Injecting this swill while trying to defend the 32nd highest spender.......

Laughable, given we have just as many people here complaining about how he spends too much.

Seek your own help, especially on how to analyze data. One number doesn't mean everything.

 

[TommyD4207]

The difference is 19%, not night and day, IMO.

The data says PHL spent 19% more and got one less Super Bowl appearance and and one less Super Bowl win in those ten years.

If I was a PHL fan (god forbid!) I'd be pissed.

I don't get the "Kraft is cheap" narrative.

Does a cheap guy buy his team two airliner-sized private jets?

Personally I think it's a bit of an anti-Semitic dog whistle.

Embarrasing take by you.

Also, 19% is a TON over the course of a decade.
Remember, last in cash spending over the last 5 years, the last 10 years, the last 20 years.
It's not an anomaly, it's a pattern.
Last, 32nd in the league in real cash spending. Facilities graded out by players to be among the worst in the league. This is the 2nd highest valued franchise in the entire league, just behind the Cowboys, they are worth multiple billions. We're vastly outspent by Buffalo and Green Bay, the two smallest markets in the league by a good margin.

The fact that this isn't the #1 story in every sports page in Boston just speaks to how sychophantic the press is here.

 

[TommyD4207]

Laughable, given we have just as many people here complaining about how he spends too much.

Seek your own help, especially on how to analyze data. One number doesn't mean everything.

"Just as many" = One Guy.

 

[Bill Lee]

"Just as many" = One Guy.

I just quoted two. Please keep up.

 

[TommyD4207]

I just quoted two. Please keep up.

Woah, 2 out of the hundreds of posters on this board. Just as many.

 

[Bill Lee]

Woah, 2 out of the hundreds of posters on this board. Just as many.

Why should we trust your math if you can't even count to two?

 

[Wozzy]

They are on the hook with all of these guys until 2026 when the dead cap becomes manageable.

Nobody is “on the hook” for good players. You pay good players because they deserve it.

The Chargers had good/great players but the results looked bad, Harbaugh took over… now magically those same players are in the playoffs.

Nobody wanted Dugger when he was available to everyone. That was a red flag. And yet, the Pats rewarded him with average annual salary more than his tag.

I hate these kind of fan fiction assertions. Nobody wanted Dugger but the Pat’s paid him what he got anyway… are you high? He has led the team in solo tackles every season he has been healthy. He is a pro bowl caliber safety. He’s a great player and athlete, the results of a bad team don’t change that.

Owenu was immediately retained at top 5 T money when he's not an anchor in any way for an OL.

He’s the 31st ranked offensive lineman in terms of pay… start there.

There was no reason to extend both Barmore and Rham who would be on prove it deals now. In fact, I don't even think Barmore plays again.

You knew Barmore was going to get blood clots? Good grief….

Bill could only muster 4 wins out of these guys. A new QB was supposed to be the savior as long as they didn't turn the ball over. That was the offseason narrative on this board even with Mayo as Coach (bizarre take). Both Brissett and Maye couldn't score points and the defense fell off a cliff (no surprise). Bill's coaching of players listed above had them holding on for dear life as they were not talented enough to take over games.

Collaboration led to 4 wins in BB’s last season, a coach and owner in a power struggle. Jim Harbaugh turned the Chargers around completely, all the same talent. It was never the talent but how that talent executed.

Naive fans assign “talent” as the cause for everything, knowledgeable fans know football is a tad more complex than that.