The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[festy1986]

No, actually my point is that you just make up crap. I didn't say any of that. You are just a troll.

Never been called a troll by a goblin before.

Literally made nothing up. All those stats are true.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Each of these options have great potential. The final decision will come down to this question:
Does Vrabel's HC experience trump the offensive innovation that Johnson brings?

If the Krafts pendulum swings opposite of Mayo - than a proven HC that instills respect, discipline, has charisma and character is who wins.

But, the package of OC, DC should carry a lot of weight. So will Vrabel's willingness to work under Wolf/Highsmith.

I think the final question has more moving parts that that. The culture each guy wants to build and how he gets there is a massive consideration. Bill was "Do your job. I am the brain." That worked for him. It even had potential to work over his last 4 years if he hired an actual coaching staff rather than using Judge and Matty P. Needless to say Bill failed the draft too many times to build a winning team. I think the culture by the end of his tenure was not sustainable with modern players.

On problem with Mayo was that he swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. He wanted to be the players friend. This is what people do in relationships. They seek the total opposite and it typically fails. Mayo called his team soft, and they were because Mayo is soft. He had poor discipline, structure, and communication. He acted like a bumbling fool on Sundays and had to fix it on Mondays. The way his players mouthed off was ridiculous towards the end. White, Tavai, the WRs, Godchaux.. The team gave up 147 rushing yards to the Chargers and Godchaux said they had a good game. How blind and stupid can you be? If you want to see a telling sign, watch Gonzo's presser yesterday. He was grinning the whole time talking about Mayo's firing. Granted, he is a quiet and happy type of guy, but it looked like more than that to me.

So here it is: What culture does Vrabel or BJ bring to the table?

Vrabel: He knows what is expected in the building. He was one of the hardest working players who knows "The Patriot Way" and can bring back the mentality if he walks through the front door. He is all abut hard work and discipline. That WR room is a whining mess. I would love to see him tell them to shut up and work. With all that comes a danger too. We do not want the next Bill who cannot relate to players. Brady and McD openly say Vrabel is an ahole. That can be good and bad. Vrabel has to have a dynamic OC to develop drake, and a total defensive scheme overhaul.

Johnson: He brings the modern offense, something this team has never seen. Every Pats fan wants to see Drake in that offense. The question is what would need to be done to get it to Detroit's level. A couple of draft picks isn't going to do it. 75% of the o-line needs to be replaced. The complete WR room with the exception of Boutte who is a 2-3 option needs to be replaced. What discipline and culture does Johnson bring to this team? We don't know and cannot assume its the same as Campbell. That dude is a unique personality and a beast. What Johnson is like is unknown.

You know what you are getting in Vrabel. That is the attraction for many.

 

[Real fan 02]

I’d say the same for Vrabel, who’s he bringing? I’m more confident that Johnson would have the right people than Vrabel on the offensive side of the ball in particular.

I'm open to either. But as far as running an entire team I'm going with Vrabel. The Patriots culture needs a hard reset. I'd be very happy with Johnson but even more elated with Vrabel and McDaniels as OC

 

[mgteich]

Either one works for me.

Anyway to get them both?

No, but there is a way to get neither. Wait until after the SB so that Johnson can choose. Vrabel may not wait for us if we are willing to wait for Johnson.

 

[Water Boy]

I'm open to either. But as far as running an entire team I'm going with Vrabel. The Patriots culture needs a hard reset. I'd be very happy with Johnson but even more elated with Vrabel and McDaniels as OC

I heard Vrabel favors the West Coast offense. I'd be concerned with switching over to the Erhardt Perkins system under McDaniels.

 

[Steve102]

I think the final question has more moving parts that that. The culture each guy wants to build and how he gets there is a massive consideration. Bill was "Bo your job. I am the brain." That worked for him. It even had potential to work over his last 4 years if he hired an actual coaching staff rather than using Judge and Matty P. Needless to say Bill failed the draft too many times to build a winning team. I think the culture by the end of his tenure was not sustainable with modern players.

On problem with Mayo was that he swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. He wanted to be the players friend. This is what people do in relationships. They seek the total opposite and it typically fails. Mayo called his team soft, and they were because Mayo is soft. He had poor discipline, structure, and communication. He acted like a bumbling fool on Sundays and had to fix it on Mondays. The way his players mouthed off was ridiculous towards the end. White, Tavai, the WRs, Godchaux.. The team gave up 147 rushing yards to the Chargers and Godchaux said they had a good game. How blind and stupid can you be? If you want to see a telling sign, watch Gonzo's presser yesterday. He was grinning the whole time talking about Mayo's firing. Granted, he is a quiet and happy type of guy, but it looked like more than that to me.

So here it is: What culture does Vrabel or BJ bring to the table?

Vrabel: He knows what is expected in the building. He was one of the hardest working players who knows "The Patriot Way" and can bring back the mentality if he walks through the front door. He is all abut hard work and discipline. That WR room is a whining mess. I would love to see him tell them to shut up and work. With all that comes a danger too. We do not want the next Bill who cannot relate to players. Brady and McD openly say Vrabel is an ahole. That can be good and bad. Vrabel has to have a dynamic OC to develop drake, and a total defensive scheme overhaul.

Johnson: He brings the modern offense, something this team has never seen. Every Pats fan wants to see Drake in that offense. The question is what would need to be done to get it to Detroit's level. A couple of draft picks isn't going to do it. 75% of the o-line needs to be replaced. The complete WR room with the exception of Boutte who is a 2-3 option needs to be replaced. What discipline and culture does Johnson bring to this team? We don't know and cannot assume its the same as Campbell. That dude is a unique personality and a beast. What Johnson is like is unknown.

You know what you are getting in Vrabel. That is the attraction for many.

 

[mgcolby]

We are both chasing the same 2 guys.
Any other interview requests we put in?
I want a wider net.

Agree! Interview several guys. **** I don't want Rivera but he is an experienced guy who can give insight, interview Saleh get an idea from a former coach of a divisional rival, he may at a minimum help you get some insight on how those know you best view your team. Interview Chucky no reason not too. Add Liam Coen to that list, maybe Aaron Glenn (not big on bringing him in but get his input). Then figure it out from there. You can do that in a week, narrow it down to two or three cadidates and go from there. I mean if you only interview Johnson and Vrabel and one or worse both spurn you...then what? Your left scrambling. I hope there are more candidates they have already reached out to and they are waiting a response before announcing it.

 

[signbabybrady]

I heard Vrabel favors the West Coast offense. I'd be concerned with switching over to the Erhardt Perkins system under McDaniels.

EP > West Coast

I think it would suit Maye well.

 

[Tunescribe]

The idiot Tennessee GM who presided over Vrabel's firing last year at behest of the team's clueless owner has been canned.

Titans fire general manager Ran Carthon after securing No. 1 pick in 2025 NFL Draft

The Titans didn’t trust their current regime to handle the No. 1 pick.

nypost.com

 

[Love The Drake]

Have we requested any other interviews?

 

[Love The Drake]

Will the new GM keep the existing HC?
Or are they cleaning house completely I wonder.

 

[festy1986]

The idiot Tennessee GM who presided over Vrabel's firing last year at behest of the team's clueless owner has been canned.

Titans fire general manager Ran Carthon after securing No. 1 pick in 2025 NFL Draft

The Titans didn’t trust their current regime to handle the No. 1 pick.

nypost.com

And this is exactly why when you fire the coach you fire everybody. You don't half ass it.

And vice versa when it comes to firing the GM

 

[RobertWeathers]

The idiot Tennessee GM who presided over Vrabel's firing last year at behest of the team's clueless owner has been canned.

Titans fire general manager Ran Carthon after securing No. 1 pick in 2025 NFL Draft

The Titans didn’t trust their current regime to handle the No. 1 pick.

nypost.com

Amy Strunk has the patience of a 4 year old.

 

[PaulThePat]

They are a supremely talented team, at WR, RB, DBs, DLs. Loaded with Pro Bowlers.

Which is credit to the McVay. The bloke is an elite coach, not sure what we're arguing about.

 

[Headcase]

I’m not sure I agree. Vrabel has been around much longer than Johnson so he has a much broader network.

I’m afraid that with Johnson moving up from OC to HC he will bring in a former subordinate instead of hiring one of the peers he was competing with when he was OC. So then we end up with a first year HC and a first year OC. Much greater risk of failure.

Ben Johnson starting his coaching journey two years before Vrabel...

I don't necessary disagree with the rest of it, but just to be noted.

 

[PaulThePat]

Must say the "you know what you're getting" argument doesn't do much for me. If that's something MV will bring to the table, he needs to bring something else.

 

[Headcase]

They already picked an offensive system for Maye, a west coast offense base, and they should stick with it it, as he understands it and the language that goes with it, as well as the defensive reads. Some here are talking about Ben Johnson as if he’s Andy Reid, when in fact Detroit uses an old fashioned power run offense and throws the ball out of it. He’s also got the best offensive line in football to run it with. So if you want a newer offensive system you won’t find it with Johnson. He’s creative, but the base system is nothing new.

I don’t know who Vrabel would bring in as OC, but I pray it won’t be MacDaniels, although I’m sure his name will come up in a discussion with Vrabel. This will be key to any hire, keep the offensive system and language consistent for Maye.

It will be interesting to see who else they bring in for interviews?

I just looked into this today because I was called out on it....Johnson runs a EP based system just like Josh did/would.

 

[KCSVEN]

With Vrabel Vs. Johnson, it all comes down to the OC. Offense wins and with Ben Johnson you get a top play caller and someone incredibly good at play design

If it is Tommy Rees with Vrabel then you are looking at a young, bright, coordinator with a modern approach. Just only done it in college. He could be the next Ben Johnson. He could also bust but I'd much rather take a chance on him vs bringing back Josh or some other retread pro coach, if that's the case I'd rather have Johnson.

I've been reading up on Rees, like almost everything I've read about him but still an unknown and if the OC is not right then Vrabel will fail. Johnson will fail if he can't set a culture and run an organization, he won't fail because he can't coach offense.

After Mayo, I'd take Vrabel and Rees or Johnson and be happy with either

 

[Tunescribe]

And this is exactly why when you fire the coach you fire everybody. You don't half ass it.

And vice versa when it comes to firing the GM

If that was true, why did Clueless Amy Strunk keep Carthon two seasons including last season with Callahan? And why is Callahan still head coach? BTW, great job they did canning Vrabel to go 3-14.

 

[festy1986]

If that was true, why did Clueless Amy Strunk keep Carthon two seasons including last season with Callahan? And why is Callahan still head coach? BTW, great job they did canning Vrabel go go 3-14.

I'm not sure if you're advocating for keeping the coach over the GM or the GM over the coach or not?

I don't believe in force marriages and either does Vrabel.

The Jaguars fire their coach but they kept the GM which is stupid because they're going to be firing him next year anyway. It's all about cost savings.