Does anyone think there is a chance Mayo is one and done?

[KCSVEN]

I can’t believe that AVP is a better offensive play caller than Ben Johnson or Josh McDaniels, I have no issues keeping the current 3 who been working with Maye on a new staff, but not at the expense of losing a great play caller.

I don't get the love for Mcdaniels, his offense with Broncos and Raiders was middle of the pack or worse. Patriots were #4 in 2009 and #1 in 2010 in offense without Mcdaniels. He was OK the Brady injury year. I questioned a lot of his play calling and he was a little more creative than AVP but AVP has tried to be a little more complex and the players just are not talented enough to handle it. Josh is not modern enough for me.

I don't want an OC that is successful because they had a star QB. Joe Brady-No, Josh-No, Ben Johnson -Yes.
Ben Johnson is one of the rare creative offensive minds in today's NFL. He supposedly had a poor interview last year with Washington but no idea if true and that's part of a vetting process. As an offensive mind he's #1, and there really is not a #2. Not sure anyone else available would be any better than AVP.

 

[turkeyneck]

Exactly.

Not since there were reports that he was asking insiders around the league about things you don't ask when you are confident the right people are in charge.

So why is the feeling overwhelming on the side that Mayo likely stays?

Because no one trusts the Krafts...

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It should all be what is best for Maye. Forget everything else for now, get the best coach for him and if that means AVP then so be it.

Maye wants to win. If we want to keep Maye, we better start winning and convince Maye that winning is our top priority. AVP's offense is like 30th in the league. Being friendly, working on arm angles and footwork are nice at the beginning, but Maye will forget about all of that if the losing continues.

Defenses jump the snap count, the OL commonly is out of sync and causing penalties, little pre- snap motion, there is limited use of the slot receiver, no misdirection in the running game, etc. the Pats offense is a complete loser and that is why it is ranked so low.

Keep losing games and we will lose Maye. Keep AVP and we will keep losing games.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't get the love for Mcdaniels, his offense with Broncos and Raiders was middle of the pack or worse. Patriots were #4 in 2009 and #1 in 2010 in offense without Mcdaniels. He was OK the Brady injury year. I questioned a lot of his play calling and he was a little more creative than AVP but AVP has tried to be a little more complex and the players just are not talented enough to handle it. Josh is not modern enough for me.

I don't want an OC that is successful because they had a star QB. Joe Brady-No, Josh-No, Ben Johnson -Yes.
Ben Johnson is one of the rare creative offensive minds in today's NFL. He supposedly had a poor interview last year with Washington but no idea if true and that's part of a vetting process. As an offensive mind he's #1, and there really is not a #2. Not sure anyone else available would be any better than AVP.

Josh did a great job with Cassell and Mac who at best were average QBs. That is why he is an interesting candidate for OC.

Agree on Johnson as a HC but not as an org builder

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Not sure anyone else available would be any better than AVP.

The NFL is devoid of offensive coaching talent greater than AVP's ability?

 

[KCSVEN]

The NFL is devoid of offensive coaching talent greater than AVP's ability?

Yup. If it is not Ben Johnson, then whomever you hire is a 50-50 shot at being better than AVP. There are a ton of average coordinators, very few good ones. All the really good ones become Head coaches.

 

[KCSVEN]

Josh did a great job with Cassell and Mac who at best were average QBs. That is why he is an interesting candidate for OC.

Agree on Johnson as a HC but not as an org builder

I don't know, with Cassell he had all pros all around, Mac Jones year you take out 3 blowouts and the offense would rank 19th. Once teams figured Mac's weakness at end of year the offense sputtered.
I liked that he game planned to the teams he played.
I think overall he's adequate. He had good Offensive Lines when he was here, I don't see anything in his history suggesting he's anything other than OK. He's not remotely in Ben Johnson's league as a play caller IMO. He'd be fine, and maybe all you can get is fine if you don't get Ben. I just don't see him being a big jump from AVP.
I also want a fresh start, lets stop hiring people from the BB tree, let's create an actual real NFL organization and that starts with outside hires.
I'd be OK if they hired Josh, but not excited by any means.

 

[State]

Dee Wise is a ****ing bum & a Fraud. **** him too.

I focused in on him and Keion White. As invisible as White was, at least he got a few bull rushes that hurried the QB. Both were on Joe Alt. No easy task.

But Wise stood up at the LOS and played a mean game of patty cake. It’s notable how useless he is other than he maintains his gap integrity. A fraud he is.

 

[State]

Ron Wolf's boy (& Al Groh's boy too) Must GO. That's the first step - the ONLY step - towards the way out of this.

This needs to be framed.

 

[Ross12]

It should all be what is best for Maye. Forget everything else for now, get the best coach for him and if that means AVP then so be it.

A second year under AVP would be good for Maye. Upgrade the OL, upgrade the weapons, let Maye get a deeper understanding of identifying coverages and executing tricky plays. Bring in to establish a solid culture at the top and fix the defense.

They’d probably be a solid offense but perhaps not elite. If Vrabel is left wanting after a year then it would be easier to transition to different OC and there shouldn’t be trouble finding a good one if the team had rebounded well under Vrabel, the pieces are better and Maye was looking good going into his 3rd year. Vrabel had a knack for finding good OCs.

 

[Huckleberry1]

So can we pencil in Ben Johnson or Mike Vrabel?
Question is who is Vrabels OC? If it’s Josh McDaniels is he content on being a OC and not chasing anymore HC jobs?

They better act decisively, because this time they will have to observe the Rooney Rule, and that takes time. And there will only be a short window to interview candidates who are in the playoffs.

 

[Huckleberry1]

A second year under AVP would be good for Maye. Upgrade the OL, upgrade the weapons, let Maye get a deeper understanding of identifying coverages and executing tricky plays. Bring in to establish a solid culture at the top and fix the defense.

They’d probably be a solid offense but perhaps not elite. If Vrabel is left wanting after a year then it would be easier to transition to different OC and there shouldn’t be trouble finding a good one if the team had rebounded well under Vrabel, the pieces are better and Maye was looking good going into his 3rd year. Vrabel had a knack for finding good OCs.

I’m not sure if MaCadoo or Van Pelt should get the credit for Maye’s development, but if they do bring Johnson in both will be let go.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Will a 0-0 tie really save Mayo’s job?

Unfortunately if Maye plays they will probably win.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Who would want Mayo as a DC?

Bob Kraft. That's the entire argument. Kraft is able to save face, saying, "Well, he's not quite up to the HC role right now. He needs some seasoning. Let's let him focus on the D." Of course no one else wants Jerod Mayo anywhere near an NFL coaching staff, but BK might not be able to let go. I admit the more likely outcome is for Mayo to stay as HC, no matter how disastrous that will be. I personally think he is not fired until year 3, and if they retain him, I'm not following the team until he's gone.

 

[Salsalife]

Mayo, wanna do 1 solid for the Patriots that would make your coaching year ok. Loose Sunday, keep your job, how's that.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yup. If it is not Ben Johnson, then whomever you hire is a 50-50 shot at being better than AVP. There are a ton of average coordinators, very few good ones. All the really good ones become Head coaches.

AVP was the 10th or 12th guy the Pats interviewed for OC? The other guys all sucked and the Pats wanted to do trial interviews before interviewing the top candidate?

AVP was the OC in Buffalo and got fired after 1 year. AVP was in GB for 5 or 6 years and they never promoted him above QB coach. AVP was the OC in Cleveland but Stefanski didn't let him call plays, and then fired him.

AVP has never led a top offense, not once, after coaching 20 years in the NFL, and now people think he is a top candidate. After 20 years, AVP has zero OC success in the league, zero OC track record, and has been repeatedly fired for failure, but PatsFans thinks he is one of the top candidates for OC.

Amazing how we found AVP after 6 teams worked with him and could not see it. Amazing how AVP holds so much OC promise that is ready to blossom after failing in the league for over 20 years. I know, I know, it is not his fault, AVP never had good players to coach.

SMH.

 

[Love The Drake]

Mayo, wanna do 1 solid for the Patriots that would make your coaching year ok. Loose Sunday, keep your job, how's that.

Lose and then fire him.
Best thing for the Pats

 

[Ross12]

They better act decisively, because this time they will have to observe the Rooney Rule, and that takes time. And there will only be a short window to interview candidates who are in the playoffs.

Depending on who wins the Lions/Vikings game, one of them will have a bye week and be able to do interviews. So they could interview either Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn, or Brian Flores. Either of those DCs would satisfy one of the two Rooney Rule requirements but also be very good candidates. Then you’d just need to do one more minority interview - you could talk to Robert Saleh or Ejiro Evero maybe. At that point you are free to make a hire, but would be wise to make sure you’re sure and do a couple more interviews if you can get them in once the candidates are available.

 

[turkeyneck]

Bob Kraft. That's the entire argument. Kraft is able to save face, saying, "Well, he's not quite up to the HC role right now. He needs some seasoning. Let's let him focus on the D." Of course no one else wants Jerod Mayo anywhere near an NFL coaching staff, but BK might not be able to let go. I admit the more likely outcome is for Mayo to stay as HC, no matter how disastrous that will be. I personally think he is not fired until year 3, and if they retain him, I'm not following the team until he's gone.

RK would be better off promoting Mayo into a fake position away from the field rather than demoting him into a hands-on position where he can further screw up the team. He was pretty good as a player following a scheme and executing a play call but there is no evidence - and I assert he has no capacity - to formulate schemes or make play calls.

 

[Ross12]

RK would be better off promoting Mayo into a fake position away from the field rather than demoting him into a hands-on position where he can further screw up the team. He was pretty good as a player following a scheme and executing a play call but there is no evidence - and I assert he has no capacity - to formulate schemes or make play calls.

I feel fairly confident that if Mayo is moved on from, he will not be fired but will instead be “reassigned” into a cushy role away from football ops and more in a marketing type position. But still be permitted to observe how things work for his future education.

This is why I think Vrabel is the best option - Vrabel would be able to handle such an awkward circumstance, he would be able to tell the team to STFU about Mayo and tell Mayo to GTFO if he tries to stick his nose into things, and Kraft wouldn’t take offense like he would if it was a guy Kraft doesn’t already know and trust. Vrabel is also an ex-LB who played in this scheme like Mayo was so he can speak to that in the same way Mayo tried to do but with some actual level of success.