The Case Against Eliot Wolf

[Real fan 02]

That's my expectation.

Let's just say... we signed Higgins, traded for DJ Moore.. signed chase young, Malcom Koonce, drafted some studs at LB, DE.. LT.. as well as the 3rd overall pick. And it still looked this way.. mayo won't last through the trade deadline next season.

 

[Real fan 02]

Let's do this again.

1. Kraft: things have to change, Bill has to collaborate.

2. Callahan says Belichick wanted to retain Jakobi but the personnel people wanted JuJu.

No matter how many times you want to deny it, and I know the Belichick haters do this repeatedly, Kraft said things were going to change in 2020.

There's also a lot more evidence than this, and it's been gone over by reporters as well, including wanting to change from Mac and wanting to draft others.

You do dewny it, but that's denying a lot of evidence and facts,

Correct. But we also have to remember bill was still the GM, even signed an extension during that span. I believe what you're posting is true. It's the collaborative effort bill likely said hey F it.. I'll go along to get along. Any way we slice it bill should still be here.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Let's just say... we signed Higgins, traded for DJ Moore.. signed chase young, Malcom Koonce, drafted some studs at LB, DE.. LT.. as well as the 3rd overall pick. And it still looked this way.. mayo won't last through the trade deadline next season.

My general fear is that the talent and strength of schedule will make it appear the Pats are improving when the coaching isn't really helping.

 

[Real fan 02]

My general fear is that the talent and strength of schedule will make it appear the Pats are improving when the coaching isn't really helping.

Your correct!! Talent mask alot of things. For example Dan Campbell who had his coaching issues as well.. once he got Talent suddenly he's looked at differently. Don't get me wrong Campbell is an excellent motivator! The Talent is what's going to save Mayo. What do you think of the players I mentioned?

 

[Huckleberry1]

Let's do this again.

1. Kraft: things have to change, Bill has to collaborate.

2. Callahan says Belichick wanted to retain Jakobi but the personnel people wanted JuJu.

No matter how many times you want to deny it, and I know the Belichick haters do this repeatedly, Kraft said things were going to change in 2020.

There's also a lot more evidence than this, and it's been gone over by reporters as well, including wanting to change from Mac and wanting to draft others.

You do dewny it, but that's denying a lot of evidence and facts,

Kraft says “ Bill had total control.” You dismiss it. You believe only what you want to believe. Bill Good / Wolf Bad.

Total ********.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I think there is a solid data-based case to dismiss Eliot Wolf.
I know it's early in his GM tenure, and there may be some longer-term strategy behind the really questionable handling of offseason spending on OL and WR.

But here are the facts.
He's not entirely in his first year with the Patriots.
Eliot Wolf was a consultant in scouting in 2020-2021, then Director of Scouting in 2022-2023, and then GM in 2024.
So, while Bill was the official GM, Eliot was charged with providing player recommendations and influencing his final decisions on free agency and the draft.
Let's look at the results.

Red is underperformed based on the acquisition cost, green is overperformed.
No "underperforms" for fourth round draft on, but you'd like to see one hit a year at least from that group.

2022 Draft
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton
Marcus Jones
Jack Jones
Pierre Strong
Bailey Zappe
Kevin Harris
Sam Roberts
Chasen Hinds
Andrew Stueber

2022 Free Agency
DaVante Parker
Mack Wilson
Raekwon McMillan
DaMarcus Mitchell
Jabrill Peppers

2022 Key Departures
Jarrett Stidham
Shaq Mason
Ted Karras

2023 Draft
Christian Gonzalez
Keion White
Marte Mapu
Jake Andrews
Chad Ryland
Sidy Sow
Atonio Mafi
Kayshon Boutte
Bryce Barringer
Demario Douglas
Ameer Speed
Isaiah Bolden

2023 Free Agency
Ezekiel Elliot
JuJu Smith Schuster
Mike Gesicki
Tyrone Wheatley Jr
Riley Reiff
Calvin Anderson

2023 Key Departures
Pierre Strong
Jakobi Meyers
Johnnu Smith
Nick Folk

2024 Draft
Drake Maye
Ja'Lynn Polk
Caedan Wallace
Layden Robinson
Javon Baker
Marcellas Dial
Joe Milton
Jaheim Bell

2024 Free Agency
Jacoby Brissett
Antonio Gibson
JaMycal Hasty
Austin Hooper
Chukwama Okorafor
Nick Leverett
Michael Jordan
Christian Elliss
Marco Wilson
Dell Pettus
JaLinn Hawkins
Joey Slye

2024 Key Departures
DaVante Parker
JuJu Smith Schuster
Mike Gesicki
Trent Brown
Lawrence Guy
Matthew Judon
Chad Ryland

Seven hits - including Drake Maye, which was a complete layup.
Sixteen misses. More if you include mistakes of omission.
You can debate - well, I really think it's eight hits. Or you can't count over-drafting a kicker in the fourth as a miss. Not replacing Lawrence Guy was really a miss. No penalties assessed for the contract decisions on Dugg
Plenty of debate possible.
However, it's a LOT more misses than hits.

While the offense has been terrible, most of us question whether it's the roster more than the coaches. Complete lack of talent across the OL and WR roster.
And that's on Wolf.
The decisions in 2024 were terrible, and the personnel decisions in which he had influence under Bill were terrible.
This draft - too early to evaluate - but signs that all they got was the #3 overall pick.

I would immediately replace Eliot Wolf.

What a complete and utter load of ********.

 

[Urgent]

Bailey Zappe in green. So much for unbiased analysis.

A very strong case can be made for starting over and moving on from Wolf, but the OPs player breakdown is biased.

Totally understand that you can make a case for good or bad players on any of those.
I don’t think that’s “bias” - it’s differing opinions.
Fourth round selection who started multiple games at QB and won several? Maybe a low bar but I called that a win for a fourth round selection. Compare that to other third and fourth round picks - especially QB.

Can debate any single one of them. The point is when looking at all of them it is a dismal record.
Further, moving on quickly from Wolf doesn’t disrupt Mayes development a bit.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Kraft says “ Bill had total control.” You dismiss it. You believe only what you want to believe. Bill Good / Wolf Bad.

Total ********.

I think you're mischaracterizing what people are saying. Who is seriously saying "Bill good" in regards to his roster moves recently?

You seem to be taking the stance that BB made every decision himself and the whole staff were just mannequins who had their input ignored. Ok fine, run with that... what are Wolf's qualifications then for being promoted to make the decisions himself? What is the basis for projecting him to succeed in this role moving forward? You're essentially saying he has no track record.

 

[Thelonious]

**** this.

I was gonna put up one of my lengthy English Teacher posts, but this pretty much says it all.

 

[Huckleberry1]

This thread should be called “ Let’s Make Believe Eliot Wolf Was Bill Belichick’s boss.”

 

[Huckleberry1]

Totally understand that you can make a case for good or bad players on any of those.
I don’t think that’s “bias” - it’s differing opinions.
Fourth round selection who started multiple games at QB and won several? Maybe a low bar but I called that a win for a fourth round selection. Compare that to other third and fourth round picks - especially QB.

Can debate any single one of them. The point is when looking at all of them it is a dismal record.
Further, moving on quickly from Wolf doesn’t disrupt Mayes development a bit.

It’s not bias, it’s total ********.

 

[Steve102]

Totally understand that you can make a case for good or bad players on any of those.
I don’t think that’s “bias” - it’s differing opinions.
Fourth round selection who started multiple games at QB and won several? Maybe a low bar but I called that a win for a fourth round selection. Compare that to other third and fourth round picks - especially QB.

Can debate any single one of them. The point is when looking at all of them it is a dismal record.
Further, moving on quickly from Wolf doesn’t disrupt Mayes development a bit.

It just smacks as Zappe-love to me. To your point, the bar was indeed so low that we accept a JAG QB who had little to no success as a win because people liked him on this board. I agree with the premise, however, Wolf has not done anything to separate from Bill, save from a ****ty WR pick who thinks he's going to cure the infirm and raise the dead. (my point is that Baker is an anti-Bill pick, and, in hindsight, perhaps is why Bill stayed away from asshats like him.)

 

[Huckleberry1]

I will compile a list of all of Bill Belichick’s draft and free agent busts. It should take a couple of months, but I’ll be sure to get it to this thread.

 

[upstater1]

Kraft says “ Bill had total control.” You dismiss it. You believe only what you want to believe. Bill Good / Wolf Bad.

Total ********.

You're wrong.

Kraft said "What happened here last year was not something to our liking, and we had to make the corrections and do the things (that we did)," Kraft said. "We missed to a certain extent in the draft, so this was our best opportunity." "
"In the end, if you want to have a good, consistent, winning football team, you have to do it through the draft, because that's when you're able to get people of great talent -- whether it's Willie McGinest or Tom Brady -- you get them at a price where you can build a team and be competitive...So really, the teams who draft well are the ones who will be consistently good. I don't feel we've done the greatest job the last few years. He then goes on to say that he told Belichick there would be changes, that Belichick would have to collaborate. He even said (regarding the 2021 draft), "I've seen a different approach this year."

So, again: what were the changes Ivan? What changes in how the organization drafted occurred around 2020?

1. Because Kraft said there were changes.
2. Breer said there were changes.
3. Callahan wrote several articles about both the 2021 and 2022 drafts and how certain players were not Belichick's picks and he also wrote an entire article on the whole Jakobi and JuJu thing.

Really, at the end of the day, I'm going to believe Kraft, Breer, Callahan.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You're wrong.

Kraft said "What happened here last year was not something to our liking, and we had to make the corrections and do the things (that we did)," Kraft said. "We missed to a certain extent in the draft, so this was our best opportunity." "
"In the end, if you want to have a good, consistent, winning football team, you have to do it through the draft, because that's when you're able to get people of great talent -- whether it's Willie McGinest or Tom Brady -- you get them at a price where you can build a team and be competitive...So really, the teams who draft well are the ones who will be consistently good. I don't feel we've done the greatest job the last few years. He then goes on to say that he told Belichick there would be changes, that Belichick would have to collaborate. He even said (regarding the 2021 draft), "I've seen a different approach this year."

So, again: what were the changes Ivan? What changes in how the organization drafted occurred around 2020?

1. Because Kraft said there were changes.
2. Breer said there were changes.
3. Callahan wrote several articles about both the 2021 and 2022 drafts and how certain players were not Belichick's picks and he also wrote an entire article on the whole Jakobi and JuJu thing.

Really, at the end of the day, I'm going to believe Kraft, Breer, Callahan.

You only believe Kraft when it suits you. He recently said “ Bill Belichick had total control.” And you dismiss that out of hand.

 

[Huckleberry1]

https://bleacherreport.com/game/denver-broncos-vs-los-angeles-chargers-2024-12-22-13-05
We thought about [adjusting Belichick’s role],” Kraft told reporters on Thursday, “but I’ve had experience running different businesses and trying to develop a team. Think about it, when you have someone like Bill, who’s had control over every decision, every coach we hire, the organization reports to him on the draft, and how much money we spend. Every decision has been his, and we’ve always supported him. To then take some of that power away and give it to someone else — accountability is important to me in every one of our companies, and where he had the responsibility and then someone else takes it, it’s going to set up confusion. And, ‘It was his pick and that was a bad pick’, or ‘He didn’t play them right’. It just wouldn’t work, in my opinion.”

 

[upstater1]

You only believe Kraft when it suits you. He recently said “ Bill Belichick had total control.” And you dismiss that out of hand.

He's a proven liar. Got caught lying on the Dynasty multiple times. He's a liar.

He said things had to change with the draft. What changed? Everyone but you acknowledges this.

And here's the weird thing -- you accuse me of quoting Kraft only when it suits me. What are you doing with Kraft's quote yourself?

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

If Brady doesn't re-sign this franchise is in deep ****.

I would say we already are in deep ****. Deeper than deep. Quicksand with a vine just out of reach deep ****.

 

[JohnJH]

 

[Clonamery]

I will compile a list of all of Bill Belichick’s draft and free agent busts. It should take a couple of months, but I’ll be sure to get it to this thread.

been done a 1000 times by the same 10 posters. get therapy, move on.