Does anyone think there is a chance Mayo is one and done?

[mgcolby]

Just because you haven't read my thoughts on Mayo doesn't mean I haven't made them. This thread is currently 54 pages long. If you go back, you'll see lots of comments by my on Mayo. Including one where I said that there might be a sliver of a chance he does get fired after this chance.

So, I'll give you my thoughts on Mayo and his chances of being fired at the end of this year. I don't think he's some great football mind that just needs some experience and seasoning. He's not going to get fired at the end of this year even if they lose the last 4 games by 50 points. Why? Bob and Jonathan made a commitment to him and don't want to look like fools like the Jets and other teams cycling through head coaches every year or every other year. Yes, it's "throwing good money after bad" or the sunken cost fallacy but as a wise man once said, "It is what it is". They're not getting rid of him this rapidly approaching off season. They may get rid of him next season if there's no improvement over this year but that's a long time from now.

Is that clear enough for you?

Yep. But that is not what your button pushing implies. In many of the posts in which you disagree with, the posters overall point is Mayo should be fired. You hitting the I Don't Agree button implies you don't think he should be fired, not you don't believe he will be fired. So, no your button pushing is not clear enough. Your use of it ignores a very detailed nuance of the posts and assumes the poster understands your point of view. Hence why being lazy and not following up with a response leads to people misunderstanding you.

This post is clear, but as stated above it completely contradicts what your button pushing implies. So, your overall posting on this topic has been clear as mud.

To your reasoning as to why you think Mayo will be back. Yes, that is the prevailing wisdom. One that I subscribed to early on as well and still think is possible. But at this point....
1. Robert is 84 years old being patient shouldn't be his motto.
2. Yes, hiring a coach and firing them is what bad organizations do. But this is a unique situation where they identified BB's replacement apparently years before. Mostly based on RK's regret for not hiring BB when his gut told him to. Understandable. But I think his gut is 1-1. By not looking outside the organization they had tunnel vision mostly based on their incorrect belief that all that ill'd the organization was BB.
3. It is now obvious all that ill'd the organization was not just BB. So they can look at this as hitting the reset button on BB. Because these are all his guys (I understand RK wanted Mayo as the next HC, but BB brought him in). If anything they can use that logic to make themselves feel better about moving on from Mayo after a year and hopefully Wolf as well.
4. There are reports that Robert and Johnathan are not on same page when it comes to Mayo.
5. It's now obvious Mayo is not who should be leading this franchise on the field nor its face off the field
6. It's now obvious you have a QB with the potential to be a Top 5 and should be a Top 10 QB while on his rookie deal.
7. The potential of the QB and striking while he's cheap should make them want to take stock of the entire organization and peek at the landscape to see what is available. Especially at the two most important positions outside of franchise QB (Coach & GM).

Will they do that it remains to be seen. But reports indicate they are willing to unmarry themselves from Mayo.

 

[archstanton543]

Will they do that it remains to be seen. But reports indicate they are willing to unmarry themselves from Mayo.

Those "reports" are just rumors and rumblings around the team. No one's put their sources name to the "report" so I take them with the smallest grains of salt.

 

[mgcolby]

I've seen this argument about becoming the jets by canning a clearly incompetent coach after just one season.

I just want to point out the Jets haven't canned a guy after one season since Al Groh in 2000. Sticking with inferior and incompetent HCs has been the Jete go-to move since then.

For reference here are the one-and-done HCs since 1981:

1981-2000
Les Steckel, Minnesota Vikings, 1984
Rod Rust, New England Patriots, 1990
Richie Petitbon, Washington, 1993
Pete Carroll, New York Jets, 1994
Joe Bugel, Las Vegas Raiders, 1997
Ray Rhodes, Green Bay Packers, 1999
Al Groh, New York Jets, 2000

2001-2010
Marty Schottenheimer, Washington, 2001
Art Shell, Las Vegas Raiders, 2006
Cam Cameron, Miami Dolphins, 2007
Bobby Petrino, Atlanta Falcons, 2007
Jim Mora Jr., Seattle Seahawks, 2009

2011-2023
Hue Jackson, Las Vegas Raiders, 2011
Mike Mularkey, Jacksonville Jaguars, 2012
Rob Chudzinkski, Cleveland Browns, 2013
Jim Tomsula, San Francisco 49ers, 2015
Chip Kelly, San Francisco 49ers, 2016
Steve Wilks, Arizona Cardinals, 2018
Freddie Kitchens, Cleveland Browns, 2019
Urban Meyer, Jacksonville Jaguars, 2021
David Culley, Houston Texans, 2021
Nathaniel Hackett, Denver Broncos, 2022
Lovie Smith, Houston Texans, 2022
Frank Reich, Carolina Panthers, 2023

None of those firings was a mistake. When a guy is clearly over his head, you move on. The Niners fired first year coaches in back to back years before settling on Shannahan. Ditto the Texans before Ryans.

Trying to ride a failure like Gase or Rhodes is exactly what the Jete do. Sticking with Mayo beyond this season would be the Jetest thing Kraft could do.

Excellent post sir! Thanks for that info.

 

[Love The Drake]

I've seen this argument about becoming the jets by canning a clearly incompetent coach after just one season.

I just want to point out the Jets haven't canned a guy after one season since Al Groh in 2000. Sticking with inferior and incompetent HCs has been the Jete go-to move since then.

For reference here are the one-and-done HCs since 1981:

1981-2000
Les Steckel, Minnesota Vikings, 1984
Rod Rust, New England Patriots, 1990
Richie Petitbon, Washington, 1993
Pete Carroll, New York Jets, 1994
Joe Bugel, Las Vegas Raiders, 1997
Ray Rhodes, Green Bay Packers, 1999
Al Groh, New York Jets, 2000

2001-2010
Marty Schottenheimer, Washington, 2001
Art Shell, Las Vegas Raiders, 2006
Cam Cameron, Miami Dolphins, 2007
Bobby Petrino, Atlanta Falcons, 2007
Jim Mora Jr., Seattle Seahawks, 2009

2011-2023
Hue Jackson, Las Vegas Raiders, 2011
Mike Mularkey, Jacksonville Jaguars, 2012
Rob Chudzinkski, Cleveland Browns, 2013
Jim Tomsula, San Francisco 49ers, 2015
Chip Kelly, San Francisco 49ers, 2016
Steve Wilks, Arizona Cardinals, 2018
Freddie Kitchens, Cleveland Browns, 2019
Urban Meyer, Jacksonville Jaguars, 2021
David Culley, Houston Texans, 2021
Nathaniel Hackett, Denver Broncos, 2022
Lovie Smith, Houston Texans, 2022
Frank Reich, Carolina Panthers, 2023

None of those firings was a mistake. When a guy is clearly over his head, you move on. The Niners fired first year coaches in back to back years before settling on Shannahan. Ditto the Texans before Ryans.

Trying to ride a failure like Gase or Rhodes is exactly what the Jete do. Sticking with Mayo beyond this season would be the Jetest thing Kraft could do.

Winner nailed it.

 

[mgcolby]

Those "reports" are just rumors and rumblings around the team. No one's put their sources name to the "report" so I take them with the smallest grains of salt.

Understood. But that is how most of this **** gets reported. So it is what it is on that front.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

6. It's now obvious you have a QB with the potential to be a Top 5 and should be a Top 10 QB while on his rookie deal.
7. The potential of the QB and striking while he's cheap should make them want to take stock of the entire organization and peek at the landscape to see what is available. Especially at the two most important positions outside of franchise QB (Coach & GM).

This is, essentially, the paramount issue. The Patriots have their QB; their focus needs to be supporting Maye. Given the lens of What's best for Maye?, I can see a case for keeping Mayo, AVP, et al., and a case for cleaning house.

 

[mgcolby]

This is, essentially, the paramount issue. The Patriots have their QB; their focus needs to be supporting Maye. Given the lens of What's best for Maye?, I can see a case for keeping Mayo, AVP, et al., and a case for cleaning house.

yep. Or a third option if its just keeping the same voice and working on Maye's mechanics etc... clean house and keep AVP as the QB coach. Normally I would not offer that up as an option because most people would not take demotion within the same organization in the NFL. But in this case it makes sense, to me anyway. AVP can have the option to stay as the QB coach or leave. Obviously, there are a lot of moving parts there and a lot of folks have to feel comfortable with it and agree. But I can see that as a viable option. AVP's play calling leaves me wanting but his work with Maye has been excellent.

 

[NormZauchin]

I've seen this argument about becoming the jets by canning a clearly incompetent coach after just one season.

I just want to point out the Jets haven't canned a guy after one season since Al Groh in 2000. Sticking with inferior and incompetent HCs has been the Jete go-to move since then.

For reference here are the one-and-done HCs since 1981:

1981-2000
Les Steckel, Minnesota Vikings, 1984
Rod Rust, New England Patriots, 1990
Richie Petitbon, Washington, 1993
Pete Carroll, New York Jets, 1994
Joe Bugel, Las Vegas Raiders, 1997
Ray Rhodes, Green Bay Packers, 1999
Al Groh, New York Jets, 2000

2001-2010
Marty Schottenheimer, Washington, 2001
Art Shell, Las Vegas Raiders, 2006
Cam Cameron, Miami Dolphins, 2007
Bobby Petrino, Atlanta Falcons, 2007
Jim Mora Jr., Seattle Seahawks, 2009

2011-2023
Hue Jackson, Las Vegas Raiders, 2011
Mike Mularkey, Jacksonville Jaguars, 2012
Rob Chudzinkski, Cleveland Browns, 2013
Jim Tomsula, San Francisco 49ers, 2015
Chip Kelly, San Francisco 49ers, 2016
Steve Wilks, Arizona Cardinals, 2018
Freddie Kitchens, Cleveland Browns, 2019
Urban Meyer, Jacksonville Jaguars, 2021
David Culley, Houston Texans, 2021
Nathaniel Hackett, Denver Broncos, 2022
Lovie Smith, Houston Texans, 2022
Frank Reich, Carolina Panthers, 2023

None of those firings was a mistake. When a guy is clearly over his head, you move on. The Niners fired first year coaches in back to back years before settling on Shannahan. Ditto the Texans before Ryans.

Trying to ride a failure like Gase or Rhodes is exactly what the Jete do. Sticking with Mayo beyond this season would be the Jetest thing Kraft could do.

As a longtime resident of the Washington area and someone pretty familiar with Dan Snyder, I would argue that his firing of Marty Schottenheimer at the end of the 2001 season was a mistake. The Redskins started out with five straight losses but finished winning eight of their last eleven games. However, Snyder was enchanted with Steve Spurrier, had the opportunity to sign him to what was the largest NFL coach's contract at the time, and canned Schottenheimer. Spurrier had 7-9 and 5-11 records with the 'Skins while Marty had a winning record in his five seasons in San Diego which followed his firing.

 

[The Gr8est]

I was encouraged to see Greg Bedard report, and then others follow up, that Mayo could be fired if the last four games are a continuation of what we have been seeing.

Why are they only now reporting about concerns that we have discussed here, and others, since interviews by Mayo and Wolf were reportedly bereft of actual football discussion with coordinator candidates and that because of this many candidates didn’t want to come here, among other warning signs regarding Mayo?

I will certainly feel more positive about the Pats future if ownership gets its collective head out of its ass and starts running the team like a football franchise where winning is the number one goal.

 

[archstanton543]

I was encouraged to see Greg Bedard report, and then others follow up, that Mayo could be fired if the last four games are a continuation of what we have been seeing.

Why are they only now reporting about concerns that we have discussed here, and others, since interviews by Mayo and Wolf were reportedly bereft of actual football discussion with coordinator candidates and that because of this many candidates didn’t want to come here, among other warning signs regarding Mayo?

I will certainly feel more positive about the Pats future if ownership gets its collective head out of its ass and starts running the team like a football franchise where winning is the number one goal.

It said that IF Kraft changes his mind he could fire him. That's just pure speculation.

 

[The Gr8est]

It said that IF Kraft changes his mind he could fire him. That's just pure speculation.

It is, but we haven’t heard speculation about this in the media before.

Are the Krafts floating a trial balloon?

If they monitor this chat they know there is a lot of concern about Mayo.

 

[Ross12]

It is, but we haven’t heard speculation about this in the media before.

Are the Krafts floating a trial balloon?

If they monitor this chat they know there is a lot of concern about Mayo.

It did feel like some sort of trial balloon.

 

[Love The Drake]

D

I was encouraged to see Greg Bedard report, and then others follow up, that Mayo could be fired if the last four games are a continuation of what we have been seeing.

Why are they only now reporting about concerns that we have discussed here, and others, since interviews by Mayo and Wolf were reportedly bereft of actual football discussion with coordinator candidates and that because of this many candidates didn’t want to come here, among other warning signs regarding Mayo?

I will certainly feel more positive about the Pats future if ownership gets its collective head out of its ass and starts running the team like a football franchise where winning is the number one goal.

Any chance Jonathan Kraft is spinning that info to the media to justify firing a first year head coach?

 

[jdlboot14]

Ya. Carroll & Marty were the only ones that had a 1-year HC job, were fired, and then went on to great success later. Marty had previously been HC for 2 teams prior to WAS too. Most don't get that chance.
I'm hoping Mayo turns into a great HC, because I don't believe he gets fired for 2 more years and I don't want Pats to stink.

But, objectively, I don't see that Mayo has what it takes to be a great HC. The other young guys that got similar chances and have decent success are like Tomlin, Mcvay, Shanahan, Lafleur, Taylor, McDaniel, Ryans. And the common denominator is that they are energetic charismatic guys with real/specific top-level skill on at least one side of the ball. Mayo has none of that. He's a corporate manager.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Ya. Carroll & Marty were the only ones that had a 1-year HC job, were fired, and then went on to great success later. Marty had previously been HC for 2 teams prior to WAS too. Most don't get that chance.
I'm hoping Mayo turns into a great HC, because I don't believe he gets fired for 2 more years and I don't want Pats to stink.

But, objectively, I don't see that Mayo has what it takes to be a great HC. The other young guys that got similar chances and have decent success are like Tomlin, Mcvay, Shanahan, Lafleur, Taylor, McDaniel, Ryans. And the common denominator is that they are energetic charismatic guys with real/specific top-level skill on at least one side of the ball. Mayo has none of that. He's a corporate manager.

By definition coaches get fired by teams that do not perform on the field. Firing the coach because he is a scapegoat is what perennially bad teams do. Firing the coach that has proven to be bad at the job is what bad teams trying to get better need to do, even if the coach has only been in place for a year.

 

[archstanton543]

By definition coaches get fired by teams that do not perform on the field. Firing the coach because he is a scapegoat is what perennially bad teams do. Firing the coach that has proven to be bad at the job is what bad teams trying to get better need to do, even if the coach has only been in place for a year.

Throwing good money after bad is also something people do.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Throwing good money after bad is also something people do.

What does this have to do with making a hard decision about the coach? Are you saying that Kraft will be throwing money away by replacing Mayo? Or, are you saying that investing in new coaches while keeping Mayo is throwing away good money because no assistants will be successful under this HC?

 

[Ross12]

Throwing good money after bad is also something people do.

Those 49ers were sure stupid for firing Jim Tomsula after 1 year, and then firing Chip Kelly after 1 year the very next year, because they ended up with that total loser Kyle Shanahan. All he did for them was.... *checks notes* get them to 2 Super Bowls and another 2 NFC Championship Games in his first 7 seasons. They should have stuck with the very sound strategy of the "sunk cost fallacy" and stuck with Jim Tomsula.

 

[turkeyneck]

Those 49ers were sure stupid for firing Jim Tomsula after 1 year, and then firing Chip Kelly after 1 year the very next year, because they ended up with that total loser Kyle Shanahan. All he did for them was.... *checks notes* get them to 2 Super Bowls and another 2 NFC Championship Games in his first 7 seasons. They should have stuck with the very sound strategy of the "sunk cost fallacy" and stuck with Jim Tomsula.

49ers were able to move on from their sunk costs because they had the clear eyed confidence in their evaluations of Tomsula and Kelly. They weren't blinded by fairy tales they told themselves about what they could have developed into given more time. If the Krafts would take a dispassionate look at their current coaching staff football operation they would also have no problem moving on. Alas ...

 

[Love The Drake]

Those 49ers were sure stupid for firing Jim Tomsula after 1 year, and then firing Chip Kelly after 1 year the very next year, because they ended up with that total loser Kyle Shanahan. All he did for them was.... *checks notes* get them to 2 Super Bowls and another 2 NFC Championship Games in his first 7 seasons. They should have stuck with the very sound strategy of the "sunk cost fallacy" and stuck with Jim Tomsula.

Rumor Shanny maybe available,
Here who wouldn’t replace mayo with Shanny?
Even if it cost say a second?