Eric Bienemy Available

[maust]

- You make a great point about EB and the scoring prowess of KC under EB as OC and I am unable to identify the difference in the chiefs offense between Nagy and EB.

Actually there was a huge difference in KC from the offense under Nagy in 2017 vs Bienemy in 2018; Patrick Mahomes. He played one game in 2017 but became NFL MVP playing a full slate in 2018. OFC as we have been 'educated' in this thread that was all Bienemy's doing. Mahomie played one whole game in 2017 and didn't even sniff the MVP award or an All-pro berth, dude was a JAG backup until Bienemy took the reins in 2018.

So if by a 'great point' you mean a thoroughly disingenuous one then yeah Andy made one.

 

[Hyped]

One thing we need to factor into this discussion is the talent on the OL, or lack thereof, from 2020-2024. Here is a list of our starting five each year (for 2024, I chose the five best guys regardless of games played):

2020: Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Onwenu

2021: Wynn, Karas, Andrews, Mason, Brown

2022: Brown, Strange, Andrews, Onwenu,
Wynn

2023: Brown, Strange, Andrews, Sow, Onwenu

2024: Lowe/Jacobs, Robinson/Jordan*, Andrews/Brown, Onwenu/Robinson/Sow, Jacobs/Onwenu

*No longer on the team.

I mean…with Cam, we still had a good OL to go with a good defense. In Mac’s 1st year we still had Karas who is now a starter for the Bengals, Mason who wasn’t old just yet, Brown still being solid on his 2nd tour of duty with the Pats, and of course a younger Andrews. Then in 2022, the Wynn experiment started to fail, Onwenu became our best OL man, and Brown started getting bored… 2023 it got worse with Wynn sent packing, Strange not
playing well/getting injured, and us moving Onwenu out again because Sow couldn’t play outside. Then 2024…..a **** show….

 

[Ring 6]

You don’t find it odd that given the emphasis on offensive coordinators in recent years, and given the team he coached, that it’s not a little odd that teams aren’t clamoring for his services?

Who says they aren’t? He was in washington last year and when Rivera got fired he chose to go spend a year with “his little brother” Deshaun Foster. He agree to 1 year then going back to the NFL. Rumors are that the chiefs may bring him back and oust Nagy. I guarantee you he will get an OC or AHC job and I guarantee you if available AVP will not get an OC job.

 

[Hyped]

One thing we need to factor into this discussion is the talent on the OL, or lack thereof, from 2020-2024. Here is a list of our starting five each year (for 2024, I chose the five best guys regardless of games played):

2020: Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Onwenu

2021: Wynn, Karas, Andrews, Mason, Brown

2022: Brown, Strange, Andrews, Onwenu,
Wynn

2023: Brown, Strange, Andrews, Sow, Onwenu

2024: Lowe/Jacobs, Robinson/Jordan*, Andrews/Brown, Onwenu/Robinson/Sow, Jacobs/Onwenu

*No longer on the team.

I mean…with Cam, we still had a good OL to go with a good defense. In Mac’s 1st year we still had Karas who is now a starter for the Bengals, Mason who wasn’t old just yet, Brown still being solid on his 2nd tour of duty with the Pats, and of course a younger Andrews. Then in 2022, the Wynn experiment started to fail, Onwenu became our best OL man, and Brown started getting bored… 2023 it got worse with Wynn sent packing, Strange not
playing well/getting injured, and us moving Onwenu out again because Sow couldn’t play outside. Then 2024…..a **** show….

In addition…the Chiefs don’t look so hot at LT this year..which has affected the offense as a whole so much that they may be starting D.J. Humphries out there this week….

 

[Ring 6]

Actually there was a huge difference in KC from the offense under Nagy in 2017 vs Bienemy in 2018; Patrick Mahomes. He played one game in 2017 but became NFL MVP playing a full slate in 2018. OFC as we have been 'educated' in this thread that was all Bienemy's doing. Mahomie played one whole game in 2017 and didn't even sniff the MVP award or an All-pro berth, dude was a JAG backup until Bienemy took the reins in 2018.

So if by a 'great point' you mean a thoroughly disingenuous one then yeah Andy made one.

Speaking of disingenuous I said exactly zero of the things you attributed to me. Zero. You are a liar.

Mahomes best 5 years were the 5 with Bieniemy.
Andy Reid’s best 5 years were the 5 with Bieniemy. Each of the 5 better than any of his other 21.
As soon as Bieniemy left the dominant offense became very average.

Only a fool would conclude Bieniemy was not a big part of the success. Are you a fool?

 

[Ring 6]

One thing we need to factor into this discussion is the talent on the OL, or lack thereof, from 2020-2024. Here is a list of our starting five each year (for 2024, I chose the five best guys regardless of games played):

2020: Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Onwenu

2021: Wynn, Karas, Andrews, Mason, Brown

2022: Brown, Strange, Andrews, Onwenu,
Wynn

2023: Brown, Strange, Andrews, Sow, Onwenu

2024: Lowe/Jacobs, Robinson/Jordan*, Andrews/Brown, Onwenu/Robinson/Sow, Jacobs/Onwenu

*No longer on the team.

I mean…with Cam, we still had a good OL to go with a good defense. In Mac’s 1st year we still had Karas who is now a starter for the Bengals, Mason who wasn’t old just yet, Brown still being solid on his 2nd tour of duty with the Pats, and of course a younger Andrews. Then in 2022, the Wynn experiment started to fail, Onwenu became our best OL man, and Brown started getting bored… 2023 it got worse with Wynn sent packing, Strange not
playing well/getting injured, and us moving Onwenu out again because Sow couldn’t play outside. Then 2024…..a **** show….

We had $100,000,000 and 7 draft picks available to address that.

 

[Ring 6]

I was referring to 31 other teams passing on Bienemy.

Ok, we’ve already seen flexibility and a desire to improve, and the numbers - and what Lazar pointed out - shows that he’s at least making progress.

But based on what I’ve read and the lack of interest around the league - I’m siding with continuity unless someone younger from the McVay/Shanahan coaching tree comes free. I also don’t want Maye to have to deal with multiple coordinaters, which is why I’m rooting for success, not failure here.

When did 31 teams pass on Bieniemy?

What flexibility? Did you really just call “redirect improve” an impressive quality? Were you concerned earlier he didn’t care?
Like I said the numbers are not your friend. Going from worst to a little better than that by going from a backup level qb to the #3 pick isn’t good. Lazar? You mean the 2 more plays a game with motion? Really?

What is more likely to produce success? Keeping a bad OC who you hope figures it out and gets better after 20 years of coaching or accepting he isn’t the guy and going out and getting a capable, dynamic OC for Maye to grow with?
Let’s be honest if Mayo and AVP come back next year, they aren’t the answer, so we will just delay it a year and give Maye another setback year of learning from and playing for a guy who just isn’t good.
Look at all the teams who never develop their QBs. What do they have in common? A guy coaching them who’s a mediocre guy who never accomplished much.

 

[maust]

Speaking of disingenuous I said exactly zero of the things you attributed to me. Zero. You are a liar.

You are in no position to call anyone else a liar. There are two proven liars that I know of here at Pats Fans. You and, because welching is lying by definition, Triumph.
I could catalogue the lies youy've told in this thread alone but then you'd post gaslighting reply after gaslighting reply and we both know I'm not going more than two posts deep with your disingenuos ass, I feel dumb enough for engaging even this far.

Instead, I'll just post the most bald faced lie I've seen anyone tell here, it's the quintessential you:



Honestly, not that honesty is something you'd recognize, out of respect for @Ian and everyone else here we should not engage each other.

 

[Ring 6]

You are in no position to call anyone else a liar. There are two proven liars that I know of here at Pats Fans. You and, because welching is lying by definition, Triumph.
I could catalogue the lies youy've told in this thread alone but then you'd post gaslighting reply after gaslighting reply and we both know I'm not going more than two posts deep with your disingenuos ass, I feel dumb enough for engaging even this far.

Instead, I'll just post the most bald faced lie I've seen anyone tell here, it's the quintessential you:



Honestly, not that honesty is something you'd recognize, out of respect for @Ian and everyone else here we should not engage each other.

You literally just lied about what I said.

I agree you shouldn’t engage with me because you will lose every time.
Proof? Your initial reaction is to cry like a little girl.
You avatar is appropriate because you clown yourself every time you try.

 

[dliverey44]

Actually there was a huge difference in KC from the offense under Nagy in 2017 vs Bienemy in 2018; Patrick Mahomes. He played one game in 2017 but became NFL MVP playing a full slate in 2018. OFC as we have been 'educated' in this thread that was all Bienemy's doing. Mahomie played one whole game in 2017 and didn't even sniff the MVP award or an All-pro berth, dude was a JAG backup until Bienemy took the reins in 2018.

So if by a 'great point' you mean a thoroughly disingenuous one then yeah Andy made one.

I am from KC and actually block out all that is Chiefs. Its all I hear about from my dad and the folks I went to high school with, so I actually didn't take into account Mahomes playing in 2018 and not just the OC change.

 

[Boomer B]

I wonder if you can GFY

Got a wife for that.

 

[maust]

I am from KC and actually block out all that is Chiefs. Its all I hear about from my dad and the folks I went to high school with, so I actually didn't take into account Mahomes playing in 2018 and not just the OC change.

But the person who tried to imply it was all Bienemy's doing damn well knew it and that was the point of my post. He wasn't making a great point, he was making a disingenuous one when he said Kermit only made All-pro with Bienemy as his OC. He was a rookie sitting on the bench by design, learning the NFL game. He also offered up lies about Kelce & tyREEK not being All-pros before Bienemy, even resorting to all caps to make it an emphatic lie when he said of tyREEK " IT IS NOT TRUE THAT HE (or Kelce) WERE ALL PRO BEFORE EB BECAME OC" when in fact both were All-pro selections in 2016 and Kelce was also selected in '17. According to Andy "Travis Kelce is a 4 time all pro. In each of those 4 seasons his OC was Eric Bieniemy." In reality Travis Kelce is a 7 time All-pro, every year from 2016-2022, 4 1st team selections and 3 2nd team.

With Nagy serving as Andy Reid's OC / towel boy in 2017 Kareem Hunt had over 1700 yds from scrimmage, tyREEK had 1200 and Kelce 1000. Andy Reid's offense only needed Mahomie replacing Alex Smith to morph into the juggernaut it became in 2018. These factual performance numbers can be verified here;
2017 Kansas City Chiefs Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[Boomer B]

Andy was a ****ty poster even during the best of times. Now that he is ass hurt that Belichick is gone he’s resorting to trolling. No one is dumb enough to advocate for hiring Eric Bienemy. Probably best to not even acknowledge his trolling.

 

[Ring 6]

But the person who tried to imply it was all Bienemy's doing damn well knew it and that was the point of my post. He wasn't making a great point, he was making a disingenuous one when he said Kermit only made All-pro with Bienemy as his OC. He was a rookie sitting on the bench by design, learning the NFL game. He also offered up lies about Kelce & tyREEK not being All-pros before Bienemy, even resorting to all caps to make it an emphatic lie when he said of tyREEK " IT IS NOT TRUE THAT HE (or Kelce) WERE ALL PRO BEFORE EB BECAME OC" when in fact both were All-pro selections in 2016 and Kelce was also selected in '17. According to Andy "Travis Kelce is a 4 time all pro. In each of those 4 seasons his OC was Eric Bieniemy." In reality Travis Kelce is a 7 time All-pro, every year from 2016-2022, 4 1st team selections and 3 2nd team.

With Nagy serving as Andy Reid's OC / towel boy in 2017 Kareem Hunt had over 1700 yds from scrimmage, tyREEK had 1200 and Kelce 1000. Andy Reid's offense only needed Mahomie replacing Alex Smith to morph into the juggernaut it became in 2018. These factual performance numbers can be verified here;
2017 Kansas City Chiefs Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Not disingenuous at all. If you look at Kelce Soto football reference it says 4 time all pro and if you look at the all pro page he shows up 4 times since Bienemy took over. I didn’t look further. Hill was NOT an all pro WR before Bieniemy he was AP as a kick returner.
I said nothing about Mahomes before Bieniemy but I did illustrate the precipitous drop off in his and the offenses numbers since EB left.

Andy Reid who want to claim EB was a puppet for had been a HC for 26 years. His best, 2bd best, 3rd best, 4th best and 5th best offenses were when EB was the OC. Reid’s best year of offense without EB as OC is worse than his worst year with EB.
When Bieniemy left the offense scored 125 fewer points. It’s hard to find a bigger drop off than that.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy was a ****ty poster even during the best of times. Now that he is ass hurt that Belichick is gone he’s resorting to trolling. No one is dumb enough to advocate for hiring Eric Bienemy. Probably best to not even acknowledge his trolling.

Ironically you making negative comments toward me (which is all you know how to do, you add nothing here) actually confirms I am right.
If you disagree with my opinions, since you have no clue, I must be right.
When you attack me personally, you confirm you can’t make a reasonable argument to refute it.
You lose.

 

[maust]

Andy was a ****ty poster even during the best of times. Now that he is ass hurt that Belichick is gone he’s resorting to trolling. No one is dumb enough to advocate for hiring Eric Bienemy. Probably best to not even acknowledge his trolling.

No one gets de-panted then childishly declares victory quite like sorry assed Andy. He's like our own little Pats Fan's Stewie

 

[Ring 6]

No one so thoroughly de-pants themselves then declares victory quite like Andy.


No one gets de-panted then childishly declares victory quite like sorry assed Andy. He's like our own little Pats Fan's Stewie

See how I occupy space in your head and you are too much of a ****y to confront me directly? That’s why you think things like this. You lose.

 

[IcyPatriot]

See how I occupy space in your head and you are too much of a ****y to confront me directly? That’s why you think things like this. You lose.

Stop being a classless ass ... you claim to know so much about football.
You have the ability to engage in great conversation in the forum.
Instead you argue useless crap you said/I said with people and you don't stop ... one topic endlessly.
Seek help Andy ...AKA Ring 6

 

[Ring 6]

Stop being a classless ass ... you claim to know so much about football.
You have the ability to engage in great conversation in the forum.
Instead you argue useless crap you said/I said with people and you don't stop ... one topic endlessly.
Seek help Andy ...AKA Ring 6

I never start it. I talk football. When others turn it personal I respond.
I won’t take crap from anyone, including you, who for some reason decided to introduce yourself into this specifically to talk crap.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Maybe if he’s available, out of jail etc next year if mayo tanks year 2…