What's happening with Kyle Dugger and Jon Jones and what it means...

[Real fan 02]

That certainly makes sense. I would just prefer to go with younger proven FA talent combined with talented drafted players. There's a lot of uncertainty with this team regarding the future. I've known previous Patriots Teams that were just as bad, and some even worse. I guess only time will tell if The Kraft's will swallow their pride, admit they made a mistake, and spare no expense in money and effort to bring back a contending culture. Or, worst case scenario, years of horrible teams which forces a change in ownership. And if that happens, it's anyone's guess as to what happens after that.

I honestly believe the entire organization knows this year didn't mean anything beyond Drake. They will spend they have to to meet league standards and vastly improve the roster. Higgins will come here we have the most cap space I think than anyone else? If we can't secure Higgins then we have to trade for a #1.. DJ Moore at WR. There will be FAs out there we just need to hit on them along with the draft picks.

 

[Vindicate]

This is why I'm looking at multiple players, because the focus among fans (and Trevor on Twitter) is on how badly Dugger is playing. But it takes a wider context to see that Jon Jones is also playing safety badly.

Dell Pettus yesterday, my god, the kid had depth of 3 yards, so Tua threw over him.

Jaylinn Hawkins lost his starting spot because he was out of position for so much.

Peppers actually started the first four games of this season and the problems were already there.

When you have you have 5 different safeties looking lost on your defense, it's not the time to blame one player (Dugger).

I blame Belichick.

Brian Belichick

Oh I'm not blaming it on one player; I understand he's out of position. I just wonder what that money looks like, as that can really be the only thing we grade Wolf on rn (and the draft). However, I fully believe a lot the overall struggle is due to coaching.

And you're correct, looking at the macro picture is truly the only way to go. It just makes for boring nuanced conversation where you realize "Oh it's coaching, but also talent, but also management, but also etc.," and Twitter ain't the place for that lol.

 

[PatsFan2]

You disagreed with “they haven’t done anything to deserve a second year” while agreeing they haven’t done anything?
You can evaluate them at any point. They have shown how they operate. It’s a disaster. Even you can’t point to a single reason they deserve a second year but you think they should get one. Why?

Our friend arch: doesn't know that RK is known to back track: when the goings gets' tough.

 

[Ring 6]

I honestly believe the entire organization knows this year didn't mean anything beyond Drake. They will spend they have to to meet league standards and vastly improve the roster. Higgins will come here we have the most cap space I think than anyone else? If we can't secure Higgins then we have to trade for a #1.. DJ Moore at WR. There will be FAs out there we just need to hit on them along with the draft picks.

If they did that’s a load of crap.

This team last year lost 6 games that would have been wins with a below average, not awful QB. Let’s cut that down to 4 and you have a team that Maye elevates to 8 wins, with many holes in the roster and 100 million to spend, 50 mill after signing back your own FAs.

How does that say give up on this year?
Why would you throw Maye out there with a team that is $40,000,000 short on talent? How does that help him? Why would you play brissett and leave him on the bench to start the year if guy was all about Maye?

Wolf thought he was building a good team. He signed the guys he pursued except Ridley. He got done what he wanted to and even before we signed waiver wire guys and made them starters he announced he was happy with his OL. He sucks. He cannot evaluate players.

 

[signbabybrady]

How often does Maye need to go off platform to look half decent? How does he look when he plays within the offense and not freelancing? Last week against the Rams he looked great within the offense. Yesterday he seemed to only thrive when freelancing.

So the impact of AVP remains to be seen, unless of course Maye was so incredibly raw with footwork and confidence that the entire team of coaches built him into this.

Considering they held Maye back for what we now know was not a football smart reason, I’d say Mayes success is because of Maye in spite of the staff.

We can all have our opinions on how much credit the coaches actually deserve for it but just saying it's the only thing they can point to. I tend agree it's more just his natural skill but even still to not give any credit would be piling onto something that looks ugly either way.

As it stands right now I want to see more or I'm firing the whole group.

But I'm also pretty soft so I don't expect much just give me one or 2 other things that I can point to:

One win vs Indy or Zona and some fight in the Buff games and LAC.

Maybe it's just Barmore starting to play better, or maybe one of the WRs.

Maybe it's still losses but another wild come from behind moment like vs Tenn.

Something, anything otherwise I'd say bye.

 

[Real fan 02]

We can all have our opinions on how much credit the coaches actually deserve for it but just saying it's the only thing they can point to.

As it stands right now I want to see more or I'm firing the whole group. But I'm also pretty soft so I don't expect much just give me one or 2 other things that I can point to.

One win and some fight in the Buff games.

Maybe it's just Barmore starting to play better, or maybe one of the WRs.

Maybe it's still losses but another wild come from behind moment like vs Tenn.

Something anything otherwise I'd say bye

I feel you. More fight in the team would definitely go along way. The secondary outside of gonzo it's such a liability right now. They are constantly in zone becuase they can't rush the passer. Barmore getting back to form helps alot. But this team is also so banged up as well.

 

[PatsFan2]

Considering they held Maye back for what we now know was not a football smart reason, I’d say Mayes success is because of Maye in spite of the staff.

The reason I want Mayo - AVP and Wolf all gone. I call them all in spite of when it come son to Maye.

 

[Ring 6]

Oh I'm not blaming it on one player; I understand he's out of position. I just wonder what that money looks like, as that can really be the only thing we grade Wolf on rn (and the draft). However, I fully believe a lot the overall struggle is due to coaching.

And you're correct, looking at the macro picture is truly the only way to go. It just makes for boring nuanced conversation where you realize "Oh it's coaching, but also talent, but also management, but also etc.," and Twitter ain't the place for that lol.

They are all related.
Nothing is ever perfect so nothing is ever totally to blame.

Last year awful QB okay prevented 6 wins. A perfect defense, great running game, ol or fantastic receivers could have overcome that. But everything else did well enough that barely competent qb okay would have resulted in 6 wins.
Ignorant people respond “oh everything was Mac jones fault”, which is just moronic. Even with those 10 wins, the team still had issues, and 10 wins was partly a reflection of the schedule and other trans issues and injuries.
But bottom line capable QB play meant 10 wins for this team.

A 10 win team with OL issues, WR issues, more mistakes than typical and needing to win close low scoring games to get there. So there were numerous problems, just like any team, big QB okay was the biggest.

Now turn to this year and you have a front office that failed miserably in the off season. Almost e try move they made was a bad one. They built a team that had little room for error and handed it over to a coach who did nothing to get more out of the talent. They are poorly coached, undisciplined, unmotivated, being given failed schemes and poor coaching.
The roster is bad AND the coaching is bad. Neither can overcome the omits of the other and in fact each together makes the other worse.

 

[Ring 6]

We can all have our opinions on how much credit the coaches actually deserve for it but just saying it's the only thing they can point to. I tend agree it's more just his natural skill but even still to not give any credit would be piling onto something that looks ugly either way.

As it stands right now I want to see more or I'm firing the whole group.

But I'm also pretty soft so I don't expect much just give me one or 2 other things that I can point to:

One win vs Indy or Zona and some fight in the Buff games and LAC.

Maybe it's just Barmore starting to play better, or maybe one of the WRs.

Maybe it's still losses but another wild come from behind moment like vs Tenn.

Something, anything otherwise I'd say bye.

You think that one good effort in 5 remaining games should save the coaching staff? Or an exceptional effort by one player to single handedly cause a win?
I hope Kraft doesn’t think that way.
2025 looks a lot like yesterday if we don’t clean house

 

[PatsFan2]

You think that one good effort in 5 remaining games should save the coaching staff? Or an exceptional effort by one player to single handedly cause a win?
I hope Kraft doesn’t think that way.
2025 looks a lot like yesterday if we don’t clean house

A.J. you have hit the nail on the head just after FA 2024 with their paltry spending. You saw this coming and harped on it all season...many here thought you were wrong: they are probably in hiding now. I never saw this coming: this is the Worse Patriots Team I ever experience in 41 years. I would cringe if we had this Coaching Staff in 2025 I would probably jump ship like @MahomestoKelce.

 

[Ring 6]

A.J. you have hit the nail on the head just after FA 2024 with their paltry spending. You saw this coming and harped on it all season...many here thought you were wrong: they are probably in hiding now. I never saw this coming: this is the Worse Patriots Team I ever experience in 41 years. I would cringe if we had this Coaching Staff in 2025 I would probably jump ship like @MahomestoKelce.

No you don’t jump ship. You remain loyal. But loyalty is to the laundry, not the people making decisions.
When you have good people making decisions good things happen. We will never have what we had for 20 years again, probably no one will. But if you put the right people in charge, you will have done level of success.
Literally no one in charge earned the job they have or have done anything since getting it to deserve to keep it.

We won’t win with Wolf and Mayo. They are not good at their jobs, at least at this stage of their careers. We may not be able to win with their replacements either, but we have to take that shot.

 

[PatsFan2]

No you don’t jump ship. You remain loyal. But loyalty is to the laundry, not the people making decisions.
When you have good people making decisions good things happen. We will never have what we had for 20 years again, probably no one will. But if you put the right people in charge, you will have done level of success.
Literally no one in charge earned the job they have or have done anything since getting it to deserve to keep it.

We won’t win with Wolf and Mayo. They are not good at their jobs, at least at this stage of their careers. We may not be able to win with their replacements either, but we have to take that shot.

What is Scott Pioli doing these days??

 

[PatsFan2]

No you don’t jump ship. You remain loyal. But loyalty is to the laundry, not the people making decisions.
When you have good people making decisions good things happen. We will never have what we had for 20 years again, probably no one will. But if you put the right people in charge, you will have done level of success.
Literally no one in charge earned the job they have or have done anything since getting it to deserve to keep it.

We won’t win with Wolf and Mayo. They are not good at their jobs, at least at this stage of their careers. We may not be able to win with their replacements either, but we have to take that shot.

Our Moto in the 2025 Draft should be to stay Pat: no pun intended. No Trades: Draft the Best Player available.

 

[Love The Drake]

We lost Ridley to the Titans let that sink in.
The luster the magic the mystique is long gone here.
Getting a offensive mastermind at HC to match with our franchise QB goes a long way to changing that Narrative.

 

[Love The Drake]

Our Moto in the 2025 Draft should be to stay Pat: no pun intended. No Trades: Draft the Best Player available.

Trades could make sense.
Our Motto for end of the season should be drain the swamp.

 

[Ring 6]

Our Moto in the 2025 Draft should be to stay Pat: no pun intended. No Trades: Draft the Best Player available.

No we should trade down if we can get the typical haul for a top 5 pick.

 

[Ring 6]

We lost Ridley to the Titans let that sink in.
The luster the magic the mystique is long gone here.
Getting an offensive mastermind at HC to match with our franchise QB goes a long way to changing that Narrative.

How about getting a Gm who wouldn’t lose a player he wants to the titans.

 

[Love The Drake]

No we should trade down if we can get the typical haul for a top 5 pick.

A true gamebreaking wr would be tough to turn down though.

 

[Ring 6]

A true gamebreaking wr would be tough to turn down though.

We need more than that.

 

[PatsFan2]

No we should trade down if we can get the typical haul for a top 5 pick.

A.J. no Team have Two Picks in 2025 First Round unless a Team is willing to with a Proven Player. I could accept that.