Patriots Pregame Thread Week 5 pregame discussion: Squish the fish @ Pats

[1960Pats]

Breer has been even worse. He gave the offense a grade of C to this point yesterday and blamed the new regime's failings entirely on "the roster." Who the hell does he think GAVE us that roster? Whom does he think coaches them and devises the schemes? Breer is the worst ass-kissing shill of all. Curran's views at least show some nuance and balance. Breer shows none: pure PR by a company hack. Breer is just another empty-headed hairdo.

I'd like to apologize to you for my poor overreaction to an earlier response in another thread. You're one of the better posters here and I went too far.

As for this topic, I enjoy both Breer and Curran but I don't watch them or anyone else very often. I also like Michael Holley but the Felgers of the world are killing sports talk for me.

 

[1960Pats]

That's why I like your post. You have 5 decades of football Intelligence to share.

The memories are a bit foggy these days. What I remember most from the beginning was that when I saw Jim Brown run I became a Browns fan. I think @DarrylS also went that same route until the Pats were born.

 

[Sicilian]

As iffy as the team is right now, there’s no excuse to lose to a team starting a 3rd string QB, a team that also lost their best pass rusher to injury. Good week to right the ship..

"Right the ship" might be a bit too strong for me, but it's a chance to stop the bleeding and exhale. When you're falling down a hill, you have to stop rolling before you can start climbing back up.

 

[slash83]

"Right the ship" might be a bit too strong for me, but it's a chance to stop the bleeding and exhale. When you're falling down a hill, you have to stop rolling before you can start climbing back up.

Good point, right the ship might’ve been too strong.

 

[Real fan 02]

The memories are a bit foggy these days. What I remember most from the beginning was that when I saw Jim Brown run I became a Browns fan. I think @DarrylS also went that same route until the Pats were born.

That's excellent to hear!! As for myself I've been a fan since I was kid in the 80s.. watching games in the frigid cold at Sullivan stadium.. wow what a dump that was.

 

[1960Pats]

That's excellent to hear!! As for myself I've been a fan since I was kid in the 80s.. watching games in the frigid cold at Sullivan stadium.. wow what a dump that was.

I had a horrible experience there with my new wife and two female cousins in the late 70's.

Back when Kraft first took over I remember reading about fans who lost their tickets because they gave them to someone else who acted up. I didn't like it then but it seems to have worked. It's a much better place now than it was back then. Even the traffic was worse.

 

[Thelonious]

I'd like to apologize to you for my poor overreaction to an earlier response in another thread. You're one of the better posters here and I went too far.

As for this topic, I enjoy both Breer and Curran but I don't watch them or anyone else very often. I also like Michael Holley but the Felgers of the world are killing sports talk for me.

Absolutely no apology called for...honestly. Testosterone is pretty thick in the air hereabouts and an occasional pissing contest is part of the deal. If the odd elbow in the corner is an occasion for guilt, Lord knows I am guilty as well. It's like boys on a playground, appropriately enough: thrashing one another one minute, friends the next. Thank you for the gesture, but no harm, no foul.

 

[mgteich]

This offense is one of the worst I've ever seen, but I've only been watching games since 1958.

about the same number of years for me

However, I don't think that the Offense is even as bad as our team in Germany last year.

Besides, if Lowe is healthy for Sunday, I would expect us to win. Also, I expect the Offense to look better when Maye plays. But, yes, "this" Offense without Lowe, Jordan, Andrews and Maye is pretty bad.

 

[jdlboot14]

No one can blame AVP or suggest he’s not good at his job. If you watch the play designs, there’s plenty that offer lots of opportunity. He’s just stuck with a bad OL and a worse QB in JB. We’ve all seen the cutdowns of some plays at SF where 2 or more guys are streaking across the field open, with a clean pocket. JB sucks. And I hate saying that because he’s a good team guy, and he is tough. But, he’s not quick enough at seeing the play develop, and he bails too early like a rookie. Which is why all the teams want him to be good, but he never lasts more than 2 years as a backup.

 

[mgteich]

No one can blame AVP or suggest he’s not good at his job. If you watch the play designs, there’s plenty that offer lots of opportunity. He’s just stuck with a bad OL and a worse QB in JB. We’ve all seen the cutdowns of some plays at SF where 2 or more guys are streaking across the field open, with a clean pocket. JB sucks. And I hate saying that because he’s a good team guy, and he is tough. But, he’s not quick enough at seeing the play develop, and he bails too early like a rookie. Which is why all the teams want him to be good, but he never lasts more than 2 years as a backup.

Yes, Brissett sux. That doesn't mean that AVP can't do better at designing plays more likely to succeed, knowing all of Brissett's deficiencies.

I am NOT evaluating AVP's play calling. I just don't know.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

I can't even temp myself to predict a win with Brissett he's that bad.

Unless the defense can score some points...

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

No one can blame AVP or suggest he’s not good at his job. If you watch the play designs, there’s plenty that offer lots of opportunity. He’s just stuck with a bad OL and a worse QB in JB. We’ve all seen the cutdowns of some plays at SF where 2 or more guys are streaking across the field open, with a clean pocket. JB sucks. And I hate saying that because he’s a good team guy, and he is tough. But, he’s not quick enough at seeing the play develop, and he bails too early like a rookie. Which is why all the teams want him to be good, but he never lasts more than 2 years as a backup.

I got so frustrated watching him not see wide open receivers I still haven't finished the game.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

But, he’s not quick enough at seeing the play develop, and he bails too early like a rookie.

Being pressured on half your dropbacks and hit on a bunch of those pressures does tend to screw with your vision.
He's always been a very cautious QB - has the second-lowest interception rate in the League after Rodgers.

How do you not give Jacobs any help when facing Bosa one-on-one? That's on the coaching staff here.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Yes, Brissett sux. That doesn't mean that AVP can't do better at designing plays more likely to succeed, knowing all of Brissett's deficiencies.

I am NOT evaluating AVP's play calling. I just don't know.

The tough part for AVP is that when you are trying to play call around so many deficiencies, it reduces the palette to the point that things get easy to spot for the defense.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Being pressured on half your dropbacks and hit on a bunch of those pressures does tend to screw with your vision.
He's always been a very cautious QB - has the second-lowest interception rate in the League after Rodgers.

How do you not give Jacobs any help when facing Bosa one-on-one? That's on the coaching staff here.

There's a cascade effect here, and JB is just part of the problem. A bad OL limits the formations and the palette of play calls. That makes life much easier for the defense. The offense ends up running a play against the "right" defense far more often. Plays get blown up. Coverage is tighter. JB isn't talented enough to process at the line and change things up, go through progressions and make quick decisions, throw the ball into tight windows, extend plays with his feet, etc., which is what you need to have any hope in this situation. If we had a QB like that, it would set the defense more on its heels.

Maye *might* be a QB like that, but the question is do you throw him out there when injury risk elevated far above normal, and when the pressure he will face might undo some of the work they've done with him on form and also mess with his head (in more ways than one). I say it's not worth it, others say it is (but most of them don't acknowledge the injury factor). As others have pointed out, Wolf and Mayo's decision to roll with two QBs means that injury will decide that question. With the injuries piling up for a line that is already atrocious, it looks like Maye will be in there soon. Behind an atrocious OL. We'll probably get to see our third "QB" before long.

 

[Brotherblues]

I was just going to post, after watching his tape, that I finally found a QB playing worse than Jacoby, it is Huntley. He had 2 TD's to Hill he missed, worst deep ball thrower I've seen in a long time. Kind of meh as a runner too. One pass he can make is the 7-10 yard out to the sidelines.
For the first time this year we will have an advantage at the QB position.
They have a good and creative offensive mind, Tyreek Hill is great. QB is terrible, keep him in the pocket and cover Hill, that's it.

I've seen the word "malpractice" tossed around here a fair bit, but I'm not sure anything the Pats have done is more deserving of the word than the Dolphins not looking for a backup QB upgrade over Skylar Thompson. They've had 2 offseasons. Any QB that looks that bad with Hill an Waddle should be out of the league.

 

[signbabybrady]

The Krafts were right to fire BIll, but they have hopelessly botched the installation of a replacement management team. The hiring process was unprofessional and incomplete. They hired the OC because he was available and cheap. They kept a GM of demonstrated incompetence, and they hired an HC whose main virtue is that the owner found him a charming travel companion. "Thunder," my ass.

Even the most avid of fanboys must admit at some point that this is a failure.

Kraft blew the resigning of Brady and Belichick right now I'd say the incompetence completely lies with him and Jonathan.

At least in Brady's case they hung onto him as long as the contract aloud them to. They actually fired Bill a year to early only to have this garbage instead.

 

[Thelonious]

No one can blame AVP or suggest he’s not good at his job. If you watch the play designs, there’s plenty that offer lots of opportunity. He’s just stuck with a bad OL and a worse QB in JB. We’ve all seen the cutdowns of some plays at SF where 2 or more guys are streaking across the field open, with a clean pocket. JB sucks. And I hate saying that because he’s a good team guy, and he is tough. But, he’s not quick enough at seeing the play develop, and he bails too early like a rookie. Which is why all the teams want him to be good, but he never lasts more than 2 years as a backup.

It is too early to say definitively that AVP is "not good at his job," but the evidence to this point suggests that he is not. My prediction would be that that he should and will be fired at season's end.. There is no excuse for as limited an array of plays as we see at this point, a quarter of the way through the season. For a man with alleged expertise in this offense, progress in installing it has been glacial. Play calling is unimaginative, therefore predictable and easily defended. Simple additions to the short passing game which would enhance our chances are largely missing, and when they are attempted, the results to my eye suggest that the players have not been properly prepared. Again, it is too early to write him off, but I myself expect he will be fired, justifiably, at season's end.

The roster is indeed awful. You mentioned the o-line and the QB. The WR's also blow. This is Wolfe's doing, over several years, so when (if) the Krafts come to their senses and start filling out pink slips, write one for that useless twit as well.

 

[mgteich]

It is too early to say definitively that AVP is "not good at his job," but the evidence to this point suggests that he is not. My prediction would be that that he should and will be fired at season's end.. There is no excuse for as limited an array of plays as we see at this point, a quarter of the way through the season. For a man with alleged expertise in this offense, progress has been glacial, Play calling is unimaginative, therefore predictable and easily defended. Simple additions to the short passing game which would enhance our chances are largely missing, and when they are attempted, the results to my eye suggest that the players have not been properly prepared. Again, it is too early to write him off, but I myself expect he will and should be fired at season's end.

The roster is indeed awful. You mentioned th o-line and the QB. The WR's also blow, so when (if) the Krafts come to their senses and start filling out pink slips, write one for that useless twit as well.

Yes, it is very possible that AVP gets canned after the season. However, it is early. We'll all see how well he does as the season progresses. But there should be no hesitancy. If AVP doesn't look good by season's end, we should sign a replacement.

 

[Brotherblues]

Kraft blew the resigning of Brady and Belichick right now I'd say the incompetence completely lies with him and Jonathan.

At least in Brady's case they hung onto him as long as the contract aloud them to. They actually fired Bill a year to early only to have this garbage instead.

I don't think we can say much about Jonathan as long as Bob is above him. We know at least the Mayo hire was 100% Bob. We don't know on what else is Jonathan plain powerless or swallowing his tongue for the sake of respect/loyalty/harmony/etc.